mas Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Relax. There are no magic materials or magic way to avoid the problems given a space over which you lack total control in the construction phase. And there are state of the art room modeling programs that cost about $5K each (EASE and CATT). But even these are not sufficiently accurate to avoid the measurements and subsequent tweaking in small acoustical environments. The necessary models and computations are simply too complex. Yes, splaying the walls ~6 degrees each (for a total of ~12 degrees of splay between the two) and the ceiling ~12 degrees, will minimize much of the flutter echo that occurs between two parallel surfaces. But there are ways to treat the problems after you know what you are dealing with. And that requires taking measurements of the response of the room and addressing each problem in a surgical way. You do not want to simply use absorption everywhere (as is too often the case!). You will simply be spending allot of money to make the problem, well, different. But rather than continue to vacillate from one extreme to another - of feeling that its all hopeless or that you need to treat everything with lots of everything, make the room the way you want it to live in! There will be plenty of time to address acoustical aspects. And with a bit of luck, you will be able to take a few measurements and address real problems with very specific solutions. We will be spending a bit of time discussing the ideas behind this and how to go about this. But there is no magic wand, nor some prefab solution in a box. But there are some real tools and some real approaches that can result in a pretty amazing improvement in the environment. But there is certainly time to take this one step at a time. I think that you will find that we will try to present a coherent step by step understanding of the general process (to follow in a couple of weeks), and then you will have a chance to identify and to address the real problems in your room rather than to obsess over all of the possible problems. Just that alone is worth the price of admission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 i did some reading last night... a lot and now i know a little what you are talking about. i found 3 web pages that has the tools to help me make my room better. those pages are: http://www.silentsource.com/afoams-sonex.html http://quietsolution.com/html/quietrock.html?gclid=CMuStPXp0ooCFQlcSgodJwfJeQ http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24x24x4--1007.html now going along with what you said, i do understand that i can't just buy a bunch of this stuff and hang it everwhere. one it will cost and arm and a leg, two, it would create a different problem. i could have the "quiet rock" installed into the room, that wouldn't be hard i just don't know if that is a product i really need. i can care less if the sound travels out of the room, it's my house not a recording studio. i am how ever rething the placement of my surround speakers. according to thx, i can place them between 90 and 110 degrees. if i place them at 90 degrees i believe i would have a greated problem then if i place them at 110 degrees. i know i am going to have sound bounce everywhere, but at least it won't be back and forth directly over my head. (i think). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 mas, here is the other way i was thinking of installing the surrounds. i know it won't fix all the problems, but maybe it won't be as bad. let my know your opinion. thx dimentions 1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Please be aware that if you are set on using the thx specs, thx specifies that all of their rear channel surround speakers must be dipoles - those are the trapezoidal speakers that you normally see that fire both forward and backward. If you haven't noticed, I am not thx groupie. I appreciate what they are trying to do, but there are other ways to accomplish the same or better standards of quality. You may find the Dolby siting specs useful as well. They are not radically different, but the Dolby Pro-logic matrix or Dolby Digital signal is the signal matrix that thx uses. (thx is not an encoding method).http://www.dolby.com/consumer/home_entertainment/roomlayout.html As far as expensive sheetrock... Save your money. They are only moderately 'useful' for sound transmission and, even so, there are still better wall construction methods to alleviate sound transmission than using exotic sheetrock. And there are effective room treatments, but save your money now. There is no need to simply paper your room with them. Rather it makes more sense to use actual measurements to determine their placement and use of them to address specific issues. Additionally, there are various designs that offer varying degrees of the 'modern museum of art' look. And hopefully we can recommend some lower cost alternatives that are equally or more effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 okay, i will look at that web page. at first glance it placement looked the same. i am sorry i wan't intending i was going to buy those products now. i plan on just getting the room built, hooking everything up, and if it doesn't sound right then i would look into those types of treatments, but i would need the measuring device first. i hope that is something i could rent or for better piece of mind pay someone to figure out if there is any problems and exackly how to fix it. i know if i do it, i won't be 100% sure i am right, but if i hire someone i will have 100% assurance that what ever they do, it would be better than my best guess. if you live in texas or near rockwall i will invite you down. i am with you about the whole thx non groupie. i am only using their web site so i can get a good speaker/room placement. other than that i don't own any thx stuff (well my playstation has a thx optical, but i only bought that because it was the cheapest choice). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 [] We may be able to work something out... And don't worry about THX. It is not a 'bad' thing. If they (the manufacturer) paid for the certification, great. It is not to avoid, but you should not feel compelled to pay extra for the logo either. In any event, I feel confident that we will be able to help get you up and running. ...And hopefully save you some money in the process! And hopefully we will be able to provide you and others with some sound (sorry!) advise for dealing with those room acoustics! And if some are flexible with their timetables, maybe even a bit more, but I am now sticking my neck way out (he said ever so cryptically!), so I will remain silent a bit longer before getting it chopped off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 well since i didn't know i need bi polar (thats a real funny name for speakers) speakers, the thx way just might not work. i saw the the set up you listed, that way will fit too. i guess i could just switch it over to that. all i have to to is seperate the rears. (maybe tweek the fronts a little) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I personally wish the name "THX" had never been raised, as it does nothing but confuse the issues further! THX presents a variation from how the 'traditional' receiver processes the same Dolby Pro-logic matrix, Dolby Digital and DTS signals. If you only have 2 rear speakers, they would be the side fills in the Dolby setup. The configuration, except for the THX config specifying di-pole speakers, is basically the same! In fact, THX has no special encoding method, they use the Dolby Pro-logic matrix or Dolby Digital signals and then the magical(sic) THX processor uses the outputs of a Dolby Pro-logic matrix or Dolby Digital signal and 'conforms' them them to the 'home environment'. They play with the HF attenuation of the surround speakers ( more attenuation in speakers further away) and attempt to manipulate the psychoacoustics of the playback. THX attempts to compensate for theater equalization conforming to the old 1950's ISO2969 EQ curve often used in theater equalization but not the soundtrack. And neither of us need be concerned with this! With THX, di-polar speakers are placed to the sides of the listening position and direct sound in two directions, one towards the front of the room and one towards the back. As the listeners are in the null between the two drivers, they do not hear any direct sound. The object of di-polar speakers (together with "de-correlation") is to recreate a theatrical array with just two loudspeakers and produce a diffuse, non-localizable rear soundfield. Another difference with THX is that they specify that both rear channels summed together equal the SPL of just one front channel, thus, half the amplifier power for the rear channels was allowed. There is more, but it is superfluous to what you are trying to do. I simply mention this in an attempt to try to explain a few of the reasons for the variance in the configurations. My humble suggestion is to Please forget that the THX site ever existed! It serves no useful purpose except as a red herring! I doubt you are going to spend the money to complete the entire THX configuration, and there is certainly no need to do so. And because of this the entire THX issue is simply a distraction. Just use the Dolby configuration and you will be fine. It will conform with your receiver's processing and life will be much easier and you willlose less sleep and save quite a bit of money. Rather than play with electronic tricks and processing, spend your time and effort a little later on the room acoustics, and it will pay off in both greater movie and music reproduction. Others are free to pursue this issue with THX further, but I quite frankly have persisted much longer than my interest has. Besides THX hurts my tiny brain. [] Disclaimer: But please note that my feelings carry no weight in what you may choose to do! I am just some disembodied voice on the site expressing my opinionated opinion. In the end, it is what makes you happy that matters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 yeah, thx seems to be a little complicated. i don't have the resourses to keep the whole package together. i was curious, with the dolby, how far from the tv should you be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Others may have more information, but my take is generally from 6-9 feet is considered normal. If the TV is really large, farther will work. I think its really common sense and what feels comfortable. ...Of course and if you normally wear glasses, whether you are wearing them or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 well i looked over the Dolby digital set up and this is how it would look in my room. they had all variable dimensions so i drew the min, middle, and max. i also color coded them. too bad i couldn't install some kind of hanging speaker bracket that allowed me to travel those dimensions. the TV is 7' 10", that should be far enough. also, you can call me cheap all you want but i decided to not get the big expensive home media furniture. i am going to go with the "executive chair." you can get them at wally world for around $80 each. the reason i am doing this is, there is a movie theater near me called studio movie grill. the entire movie theater only uses the executive chair. i enjoy my movies in those so i will enjoy the movies at my house in the same chair. dolby digital set up.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 3, 2007 Author Share Posted March 3, 2007 i think this is going to be the initial set up. i didn't want to put the surrounds 90degrees from me because of the possible echo effect. i figured if they were offset a little it might help out. i know later down the road i will need bass traps, and all the other stuff. dolby digital set up 1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InVeNtOr Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 mas, no more suggestions? i guess now i have to get the room built, everything in it, turn it on, and measure before i do any more tweeking. well it's going to be a long wait then...lol never hurts to wait for what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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