mas Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 mas...are you writing these yourself or copying other articles? They seem like they re written by a writer and it would take me half an hour to type that much. If I could find an article that said whatever it was that I said, I would just post the link. You are evidently new here...[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 HD DVD Grows, Blu-rayShrinks in Q2 By Ed Oswald, BetaNews; July 17, 2007 Data from several researchers indicate that Blu-ray may bebeginning to falter as HD DVD builds momentum thanks to price cuts on itsstandalone players. NPD Group and Nielsen/NetRatings reports along with point ofsale data indicate that overall HD DVD hardware sales were up 37 percent fromthe first to second quarter, which is a 183 percent increase in standalone HDDVD players. More than 180,000 players have now been sold. "The numbers are clear -- HD DVD is steadily gainingmomentum and market share," HD DVD Promotional Group co-president KenGraffeo said in a statement. During this same period, software sales have increased 20 percent.According to analysts, there is only about 20-30 title gap between the twoformats, which is not as large as many would perceive, and price is a majorfactor in buying decisions. A study by CEA in June backs up these claims. HD DVD playersnow sell for as little as $299 USD, while the cheapest Blu-ray players,standalone or otherwise, are at least $499 USD. Blu-ray hardware sales fell 27 percent from Q1 to Q2, withsoftware sales also being off by about five percent. Some of Blu-ray'sstruggles could be attributed to sagging sales of the PS3: Sony banked on brisksales of the console to help win the next-generation DVD format war. However, with the price cut on its discontinued 60GB (whichwas recently disclosed to be temporary until the existing supply of 60GB units are depleted)model in the United States, increased sales of Sony's PS3 will probably alsohave the residual effect of helping to prop-up Blu-ray in the face of strongercompetition from HD DVD. Also note that the PC makers are going to be increasingly installing HD-DVD units in both laptops and desktops. Only a few have opted for Blu-Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Dude Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Also note that the PC makers are going to be increasingly installing HD-DVD units in both laptops and desktops. Only a few have opted for Blu-Ray. What disc drive manufacturers make HD-DVD burners? I have never seen any HD-DVD burners or blank HD-DVD discs.... only Blu-ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatrixDweller Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 They are not available yet but Toshiba and NEC have one. Hitachi-LG plan on releasing a hybrid player too. I'd think that a lack of a burner would be good incentive to the movie studios to side with HD-DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARPRINCE Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 HD DVD Grows, Blu-ray Shrinks in Q2 By Ed Oswald, BetaNews; July 17, 2007 Data from several researchers indicate that Blu-ray may be beginning to falter as HD DVD builds momentum thanks to price cuts on its standalone players. NPD Group and Nielsen/NetRatings reports along with point of sale data indicate that overall HD DVD hardware sales were up 37 percent from the first to second quarter, which is a 183 percent increase in standalone HD DVD players. More than 180,000 players have now been sold. "The numbers are clear -- HD DVD is steadily gaining momentum and market share," HD DVD Promotional Group co-president Ken Graffeo said in a statement. During this same period, software sales have increased 20 percent. According to analysts, there is only about 20-30 title gap between the two formats, which is not as large as many would perceive, and price is a major factor in buying decisions. A study by CEA in June backs up these claims. HD DVD players now sell for as little as $299 USD, while the cheapest Blu-ray players, standalone or otherwise, are at least $499 USD. Blu-ray hardware sales fell 27 percent from Q1 to Q2, with software sales also being off by about five percent. Some of Blu-ray's struggles could be attributed to sagging sales of the PS3: Sony banked on brisk sales of the console to help win the next-generation DVD format war. However, with the price cut on its discontinued 60GB (which was recently disclosed to be temporary until the existing supply of 60GB units are depleted) model in the United States, increased sales of Sony's PS3 will probably also have the residual effect of helping to prop-up Blu-ray in the face of stronger competition from HD DVD. This news came from the HD DVD promotional group. Toshiba has been very aggressive on pushing lower price points for its player so you get the spike on the second quarter. Blu-Ray still has a clear lead on market share. Let's see what happens on the third quarter since Sony dis slash PS3 price too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Not only has Toshiba announced that they will make HD-DVD drives standard in all of their laptops by next year, Asus, Samsung (formerly in the Bly-Ray camp), and others are also introducing HD-DVD in their laptops. And Asus is further significant as they are an OEM for a large number of branded laptops. The irony is that Blu-Ray has only gotten the lion's share of its marketshare due to its inclusion in the PS3, not because folks have simply run out to by Blu-Ray units; while HD-DVD users have gone out and specifically bought a player. Using the Blu-Ray rationale, many more people prefer reduced size spare tires too, as they simply come with the car, as opposed to full size spares that you would have to go out and buy yourself. Yup, I know I love 'em... Makes complete sense to me! [*-)] And the 'price slashing' (yeah, right - from absurdly expensive to prohibitively expensive, with new units featuring even less compatibility - now there's a marketing release of which to be proud!) of the 60GB PS3s is only to clear out the inventory of 60 GB units 'while they last', and not a permanent reduction as some seem to continue to believe...and also that their disk sales figures included the incentive disks provided with the players, Rather than listen to any of the fanboy sites, folks might do well to watch more of the IT and professional MI and SR trades. And IT who is a very large elephant in the room has yet to embrace either format - aside from Microsoft's being squarely in the HD-DVD camp. I wonder when the fanboys are going to stop believing that fan loyalty to games or abstract spec debates are going to settle the market issue. I guess they are also still trying to convince folks how Beta is just about to reach the tipping point as well!!! I suggest that larger market forces determined by the self-interest of the manufacturers and other companies involved in the marketing and distribution of such formats examined from a strategic marketing and management perspective will have a much greater determinant role than silly fanboy rants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTLongo Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 Well, it appears despite the passage of time that the format war is just continuing to slog along. Count me out, I am not going to be burned by Beta vs. VHS again. Am investing $230 in an Oppo DV-981HD upconverting DVD player in the expectation that it will noticeably enhance my present DVD's and ones I rent from Netflix or occasionally buy. I expect (hope) that will tide me over for the next three years or so until the wretched high-def DVD format war is won by one side or another. Of course, by that time something wholly new may be brewing, say, high-def directly downloadable from the Internet. Chissa'? (Italian for "who knows?" ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARPRINCE Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Blu-Ray has only gotten the lion's share of its marketshare due to its inclusion in the PS3, not because folks have simply run out to by Blu-Ray units; while HD-DVD users have gone out and specifically bought a player.That was Sony's plan from the very beginning which was a brilliant move IMO but at the cost of lower console sales. The spin is, you get a Game console and a Blu-ray player in one unit so what more can you ask for (insert good games jokes here)?. Furthermore, the PS3 is considered by many on par with the top stand alone BD players out there. I bought one, I'm happy and never looked back! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Sony is exceeding pleased as evidenced by the hemorrhaging of money from their PS3 division and the shakeup of so many principles within the division. Their strategic management of the opportunity has been a spectacular failure, regardless of which format you might prefer. Just witness the continuing preference for Wii and PS2 over PS3! And if bundling a drive in a game console was so brilliant, placing HD-DVD drives in a much larger and much faster growing laptop market trumps the former bundling. If the former was brilliant, the later is truly inspired! Let's see, laptop computer markets versus high end game platforms...yup, thats a close comparison. Not! Again, if you like it, enjoy it. I love my Super Beta Hi Fi unit too! But fanboy testimony doesn't mean squat in this business case. So repeatedly trotting out vested fanboy testimonies doesn't change the fundamental business case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatrixDweller Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Regarding HD-DVD drives in laptops and desktops: Software producers have just started to put their stuff on DVD. It will be a long time before they start cutting HD-DVD versions of their software. The main purchaser of laptops (and desktops for that matter) is business and not consumers. There isn't much business software out there that even requires a DVD version let alone HD-DVD or Bluray. Games and movies are really the only commodity that could use the extra disc space at this time. The one advantage HD-DVD has over Bluray is the fact that it's much cheaper to produce and more easily backward compatible with DVD and CD formats since it is just an evolution of DVD. If the PC market is to kill Bluray it will be because HD-DVD-R drives (with the help of hackers) will enable piracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Regarding HD-DVD drives in laptops and desktops: Software producers have just started to put their stuff on DVD. It will be a long time before they start cutting HD-DVD versions of their software. The main purchaser of laptops (and desktops for that matter) is business and not consumers. There isn't much business software out there that even requires a DVD version let alone HD-DVD or Bluray. Games and movies are really the only commodity that could use the extra disc space at this time. The one advantage HD-DVD has over Bluray is the fact that it's much cheaper to produce and more easily backward compatible with DVD and CD formats since it is just an evolution of DVD. If the PC market is to kill Bluray it will be because HD-DVD-R drives (with the help of hackers) will enable piracy. The advantage for any HD format in the IT world is CAPACITY and COST. Distribtuoin of software in an online delivable world is not really an advantage, especially as most do not have the players! Distribution is not aimed at a niche market. but at a lowest common denominator format. What integration of the players in commodity laptops does accomplish is to make the platform ubiquitous. It will be everywhere in common 'non-niche' devices. And copy protection is moot for both formats! THEY USE THE SAME AACS SYSTEM!! Sony is adding an additional "+" component, but as the AnyDVD, AnyCD suite by SlySoft has broken them anyway. Its a moot point! And I would suggest geting the SlySoft suite for anyone. If you are messing with either Nero or Roxio, I can only surmise that you are either a masochist or simply uninformed![] And software piracy is a moot point with regards to HD formats in that the keys are not tied to the disk! In fact, you will see increased non-hardware based on demand/streaming distribution of software. The key is a separate issue entirely from the medium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 One of the vary curious things going on now with video people is the use of "Sony Vegas" m2t HD files being written to "HD-DVD" standards with "Ulead" software to standard DVD-R discs which can be played back with the Toshiba players. The results are reportably no different than viewing HD-DVD movie discs. Also (somehow) writing them with the Ulead Bluray software to standard DVD-R disc for playback with the PS3 bluray player. The set top Bluray players cannot play the files, only the PS3 player. Of course the playing time is not as great (about 20 minutes per 4.7 gig disc) and some people are using the dual layer discs with this method. But the kicker is you still have to have an HD-DVD player or a PS3. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Dude Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 more easily backward compatible with DVD and CD formats since it is just an evolution of DVD HD-DVD is different than DVD. For starters it uses a smaller blue laser similar to the ones Blu-ray uses. Also most Blu-ray players are backwards compatible with DVD and sometimes CD. And can someone answer my question of who makes a HD-DVD burner for a pc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatrixDweller Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 TOSHIBA and NEC but they haven't been released yet. I think the hold up is the approval process by the DVD Forum. Yes DVD Forum, the same guys that brought DVD to life are behind HDDVD. HD-DVD is based on the same technology that DVD is except for the fact it uses a smaller wavelength of laser. That's why it's natively backward compatible and easy to do so. Th efirst gen HDDVD players were where as the first gen blueray were not all backward compatible with DVD. See the link. http://www.hddvdprg.com/eng/hddvd/hddvd_3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aviserated Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 As of now Denon has not made a decision, so which ever format DENON decides to go with will be the winner...HDDVD or BLUE RAY? Have they made that decision yet? Probably be a universal player. http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/DVDPlayersAndChangers.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 Right now, the important issue is in the strategic marketing and management decisions being made by companies that have the potential to significantly increase the market penetration percentage of the various formats. Makers of simple players do not. They do not expand the market. Rather they simply compete for the existing market And the dual format players are not an advantage nor will they. The reason is simple. While the multi-format diodes offer manufacturers substantial savings via economies of scale and simplified inventory control, but only for the manufacturers. Do to licensing, neither camp stands to gain by supporting the licensing of a dual player. Thus you will continue to see dual players costing more than two players of each format. The opportunity that currently offers a very large market opportunity is that computer makers are readying to make the HD players ubiquitous in the personal computer market. And right now, the major computer players are favoring the HD-DVD format. This poses the greatest strategic marketing opportunity for providing a substantial market penetration advantage right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatrixDweller Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 As of now Denon has not made a decision, so which ever format DENON decides to go with will be the winner...HDDVD or BLUE RAY? Have they made that decision yet? Probably be a universal player. Although Denon makes some great players they are probably the least likely to impact the HD DVD Bluray battle. Their players are ultra high end and cater to maybe 10% of the market. The other 90% wants a sub $200 player that does just an adequate job. Those are the peole that went into Best Buy and bought the biggest HDTV that cost the least amount of money. The manufacturers that will impact the HD race will be LG, RCA, and the slew of garbage Chinese makers that no one has ever heard of. Which ever format offers to make the manufacturer the most money will win in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid22 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I am only 22 so dont completely remember beta-vhs I do remember when the laser disk came out. Besides that I had one of the origionally released PS2's the old brick one. I never one time played a DVD in it and it worked until my cat jumped on the rack it was on and it fell 1 month before the 360 was released. Good friend of mine used it as his DVD player 1 year later PS2 shat the bed. I have a 360 for gaming dont want a ps3 (i think that if i had it id use blu-ray disks in it and it would crap out on me) I know my friend wasnt the only person who seen "disk read error" I am in OK and we dont have this extensive HDTV cable here, Roughly 7 or 8 stations is considered the "premium" package. I to want to dive in the world of HD-format for my home theater, (to be installed soon) Out of the many people at my work only 1 I know of who had a blu-ray player is a ps3. He told me he bought a blu-ray player that can also play video games. Is that a large chunk of what people might have done to get a blu-ray player just buy a ps3? I literally just found out about upscaling dvd players and im hooked. Cheaper then either format and I dont have to rebuy scarface. I have 1 piece of enlightenment I haven't seen in this forum yet. Vivid video ....yeah i know. They have chosen blu-ray as thier format. With a little research <god bless google> It states that the "adult video industry" selected vhs when the beta/vhs war started. Is this a hindsight of what might happen again? Also the adult video industry did not chose laser disk when it came out. When i think of new sony technology, I see it being used years later "cough" mini disk" psp UMD? The amout of information a blu-ray can have is insane for todays standards of computers, maybe not insane but leaps from a dvd capacity. Maybe this will be the next cdrom type format. I and my co-workers seem to get into technology battles every so often and this one is something neither side is sure about. I would ike to know so i can stop beating the bush and finally buy a hd player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcarlton Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I have 1 piece of enlightenment I haven't seen in this forum yet. Vivid video ....yeah i know. They have chosen blu-ray as thier format. With a little research <god bless google> It states that the "adult video industry" selected vhs when the beta/vhs war started. Is this a hindsight of what might happen again? Also the adult video industry did not chose laser disk when it came out. Only 8 companies worldwide can replicate Blu-ray Discs. Two are controlled by Sony and five have contracts with Disney who stipulate no porn. That just leaves one company, and Vivid is tied up with them. All other porn studios are using HD-DVD which are cheaper to make. BTW I'm not sure if Vivid was able to release the movie on Blu-ray, they missed their March 28 release date, and I don't know where to search to see if it has been released[]. Still too soon to name a winner. PCWorld had a good article on this subject. Here is a more recent story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARPRINCE Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 As of now Denon has not made a decision, so which ever format DENON decides to go with will be the winner...HDDVD or BLUE RAY? Have they made that decision yet? Probably be a universal player. http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/DVDPlayersAndChangers.asp Here's a link to some note worthy speculation. Denon Blu-ray Player on the Way? Posted June 29, 2007 by Josh In a recent interview with ListenUp.com, Jeff Talmadge from Denon stated that they would announce plans for a high definition player as early as July, but no format was given. When you couple this information with the fact that Funai (who recently announced a Blu-ray player for this fall) makes DVD players for Denon, and that D&M Holdings, the parent company of Denon, is now an adopter of BD+, it appears that the Denon player will most certainly be Blu-ray. This information, of course, is all speculative right now, but we hope to hear more from Denon in the upcoming months about their future high definition plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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