ZAKO Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Things are dull on 2 channel? Well i,ll have to do something about that...DeanG ordered a Jubilee? Well he just picked a speaker pug uglier than himself. And the Jub is uglier than a warthog in heat. The Jubs would look better painted pink. My speakers are purdier than pigs. I like a good bar fight. Here i just threw the first bottle.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Problem is everything you have learned is completely false. Besides its easy for you to overcome the dull drums you just throw away another few grand. Define "everything". I have a feeling that "everything" entails stuff you know less about than I do (horns, drivers, and networks), so I don't see how you can say what's false and what isn't. As for the loss on the Klipschorns, I'm losing about $2K. I paid $5500, and the mods ran about $300 more than what I sold the AK-4 parts for. I sold them for $3500 without networks, and I'll recoup a bit more when I build Steve's networks. I lost money, but it's an acceptable loss to me for the upgrade. On that note, I'm sorry that you think moving to the Jubilee is a waste of money, and that it doesn't have anything on a Klipschorn "in the real world", but I think I'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't know what you mean by doldrums, I've said more often then I can recollect that I'm perfectly happy with the sound from my Klipschorns. In fact, there is a slight chance they may not be going anywhere, but there's no sense in going into any detail about that. I wouldn't want to bore anyone. The problem is what you "know" changes with every new person you align yourself with. Today it's the bad cowboy. Who will it be tomorrow? I think I used the wrong word (false) I should of used "misleading" or maybe "exagerated" Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Problem is everything you have learned is completely false. Besides its easy for you to overcome the dull drums you just throw away another few grand. Define "everything". I have a feeling that "everything" entails stuff you know less about than I do (horns, drivers, and networks), so I don't see how you can say what's false and what isn't. As for the loss on the Klipschorns, I'm losing about $2K. I paid $5500, and the mods ran about $300 more than what I sold the AK-4 parts for. I sold them for $3500 without networks, and I'll recoup a bit more when I build Steve's networks. I lost money, but it's an acceptable loss to me for the upgrade. On that note, I'm sorry that you think moving to the Jubilee is a waste of money, and that it doesn't have anything on a Klipschorn "in the real world", but I think I'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't know what you mean by doldrums, I've said more often then I can recollect that I'm perfectly happy with the sound from my Klipschorns. In fact, there is a slight chance they may not be going anywhere, but there's no sense in going into any detail about that. I wouldn't want to bore anyone. The problem is what you "know" changes with every new person you align yourself with. Today it's the bad cowboy. Who will it be tomorrow? I think I used the wrong word (false) I should of used "misleading" or maybe "exagerated" Craig It is all about deciding what is the most important link in the chain - and ignoring the fact that for the chain to work all links are equally important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted March 7, 2007 Moderators Share Posted March 7, 2007 What I don't understand is why "boring" is synonymous with lack of name-calling and insults? If you can't come up with interesting posts/responses that don't include berating each other on a personal level, then yep, this is going to be a boring place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Problem is everything you have learned is completely false. Besides its easy for you to overcome the dull drums you just throw away another few grand. Define "everything". I have a feeling that "everything" entails stuff you know less about than I do (horns, drivers, and networks), so I don't see how you can say what's false and what isn't. As for the loss on the Klipschorns, I'm losing about $2K. I paid $5500, and the mods ran about $300 more than what I sold the AK-4 parts for. I sold them for $3500 without networks, and I'll recoup a bit more when I build Steve's networks. I lost money, but it's an acceptable loss to me for the upgrade. On that note, I'm sorry that you think moving to the Jubilee is a waste of money, and that it doesn't have anything on a Klipschorn "in the real world", but I think I'm going to have to disagree with you. I don't know what you mean by doldrums, I've said more often then I can recollect that I'm perfectly happy with the sound from my Klipschorns. In fact, there is a slight chance they may not be going anywhere, but there's no sense in going into any detail about that. I wouldn't want to bore anyone. The problem is what you "know" changes with every new person you align yourself with. Today it's the bad cowboy. Who will it be tomorrow? I think I used the wrong word (false) I should of used "misleading" or maybe "exagerated" I think Dean is simply being a good student. The behavior you describe is essentially one of someone asking questions from those that are knowledgeable in a field and then drawing his own conclusions about them. It's not like he's some mindless idiot that just regurgitates everything he hears from Roy because he wants to be cool like Roy....seriously, who would ever wanna be like Roy?!? Ok, bad example. But seriously, I know for a fact that Dean doesn't midnlessly believe in everything Roy spouts. A great example would be Dean's disdain for op-amps [] -which I can only imagine is the result of Dean being "misled" by other "experts" that "exagerate" the facts....how's it feel when an inexperienced individual makes such a wild claim? The difference here is I'm willing to hear better tubes - you seem to be rather closed off to modern acoustical principals.If Dean were latching onto PWK nobody would be going nuts about the things Dean is learning. PWK isn't around anymore and we're left with Roy. But in my opinion, Roy is a better source anyway.....if nothing else but the fact that he can stand upon the shoulders of PWK. I know this argument won't be accepted by those that think Roy is full of crap, but I seriously have to question the arrogance of a person that thinks they can provide a better physical model (which is ultimately what engineering comes down to). Yes I know, I'm brainwashed by Roy too, but maybe some of you guys should get out and see what the rest of the audio industry is doing too. A lot of these ideas that Roy is sharing with us are very old concepts and have been heavily researched by many of the top dog companies out there - I just happen to feel that Roy is putting out the best product, but that is likely the result of my bias for Klipsch and everything they stand for. The whole dogma revolving around the Jubilee just screams of some people refusing to embrace a speaker that performs better than another speaker they've convinced themselves as being the epitomy for so many years. If they want to continue believing that, fine....but let's not pee in each other's cornflakes. Isn't it supposed to be about enjoying music? Even if the sound is technically worse, isn't it more important that somebody is enjoying the music more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 What I don't understand is why "boring" is synonymous with lack of name-calling and insults? If you can't come up with interesting posts/responses that don't include berating each other on a personal level, then yep, this is going to be a boring place. I agree with Amy. We need way more berating, name-calling and insults! We're way past the point of new audio topics. They've all been covered ad nauseum. Now, it's just the same folks posting the same things over and over and over and over. It's a big love-fest where all the most active posters kiss, hug and sing Kum-By-Ya. I know we're one big happy "forum family" but even that's gotten old. I now keep in touch with my forum friends outside the forum for the most part. I never thought I'd say this but I miss the days of Mobile Homeless and Ryan Inman. Heck, maybe this thread will stir things up. Let's get some flames going folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I've read with interest the posts on the Jubs. As with many things I read here I asked myself if I am missing anything. I often have these moments when reading of some tweak, twiddle, or paradigm shift. Then I go have a seat, listen to one of my own or some other recording I know to be of high quality and fuhgedaboutit. While there may be real or percieved improvements in the Jubs, certain tubes, some exotic (or idler driven) TT, or wire left to dry in the sun on the summer equinox, or whatever, that which is accurate and truthful to start with is not going to suddenly not be so unless something has gone wrong with it. This is a hobby. If one is equipment oriented and driven, there can be nothing more boring than perfection. I do not find it at all surprising that for many it is the journey, not the destination, that counts. Good on 'em... PWK once told me "I'll make smaller speakers when they figure out a way to make a smaller 32 foot wave form." That is, of course, hardly relevant to the Jubs, but it pretty well sums up his attitude towards design in that: improvements past those to be gained by uncompromising design are incremental at best and may or may not be percieved as "better" by a listener. My system needs a few things, notably re-wiring for better isolation and visual appearance. VPI needs tweaking, as does my Empire. I am integrating the venerable MBS-5 back in and working towards a central server-based distribution system for the house systems. However, none of these things are either earth-shattering or require any significant "upgrades." The ol 'horns, Cornie, Fraziers, ST-70i, etc. will continue to provide more accurate sound than the vast majority of sources I'll ever feed to them. That said, I always enjoy reading the posts of those involved in "the Quest." I also learn from their adventures (and misadventures). As to "sturm un drang" for the forum, I am considering a topic or two that just might stir the pot... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Who - Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 SET IS BEST!!!!!! You should keep your PP in the loo. VRD = Very Rampant Distortion!!!! Blueberries are for muffins!!! CD sounds better and is more accurate!!! If you don't have at least 20 Watts, you are doomed to a life of compression!!! Active crossovers are for auditoriums!!! If it's WAR you want, WAR you will get!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 ZAP; Pretty darn funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 I think you hit on something Rick. Same old equipment, same old cheerleaders and same old responses. Without a bit of bickering to liven it up, whats the point? Create a FAQ and close it down. Unless someone is going to do something controversial - try a new driver board, build a new amp, deliver a new preamp, lead technical discussions on upgrades possible by the DIYer or provide reviews of "new" listening material - we have covered everything here ad nauseum. Hell, even Dean's foray into Jubilees was predictable. Its also predictable when fini might do something with his Dynaco Mark IV's. The hundreds of posts on the Jub's can be summed up in few have listened, those that have enjoy them, performance is at least equal to Klipschorns but they are two way and leverage active EQ and their aesthetics are controversial and won't please everyone. End of discussion. A lot of noise on two channel but not much desire or need to listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted March 7, 2007 Moderators Share Posted March 7, 2007 Create a FAQ and close it down. Hmmmm...sure would make my job easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksonbart Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 but I like good music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 With the education and background in audio design Roy has, It would be hard to find any one here to hold a candle to his contribution in horn design... alot could not be revealed here. But is revealed to our listening pleasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 The hundreds of posts on the Jub's can be summed up in few have listened, those that have enjoy them, performance is at least equal to Klipschorns but they are two way and leverage active EQ and their aesthetics are controversial and won't please everyone. End of discussion. End of discussion?!? ROFLOLOLOLOLOLOL Thanks for summing it up for everyone! [Y][Y] Btw, two way is a good thing, active EQ is better than horn EQ, and if you're bothered by aesthetics you can booger off. None of the Klipsch Heritage is good looking. I guess that means the Klipschorn Jubilee is a homerun in every category, except for the princess ladies on the forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 The hundreds of posts on the Jub's can be summed up in few have listened, those that have enjoy them, performance is at least equal to Klipschorns I'll be interested to see if you have the same sentiments if/after you get a chance to visit & hear them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 The hundreds of posts on the Jub's can be summed up in few have listened, those that have enjoy them, performance is at least equal to Klipschorns I'll be interested to see if you have the same sentiments if/after you get a chance to visit & hear them! Let me state my position more succinctly that previously: There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt in my mind I would be THRILLED to hear Jubilees. I am equally convinced I'd not come away with an unsatiable lust to trade my 'horns for them. Since I already have accuracy, all that remains is different perspectives on accuracy. When looking at the Grand Canyon, some prefer the North Rim, others the South. Still the same canyon...but there is no denying the difference in perspective. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 The hundreds of posts on the Jub's can be summed up in few have listened, those that have enjoy them, performance is at least equal to Klipschorns I'll be interested to see if you have the same sentiments if/after you get a chance to visit & hear them! Those are not my sentiments... "performance is at least equal to Klipschorns" comes directly from the Paul & Roy paper published previously on the Jubilees. I withhold judgement until I hear them myself. The point is it was a lot of chatter over nothing. How many speakers and other equipment have we witnessed Dean cycle though over the last 7 years? Why all the posts debating whether he should or not? Once you have said they are ugly, is there any need to continue? Once you have said you haven't heard them yet, is there any need to continue? I haven't driven a Porsche 911 either but given the right deal I would immediately sell my F-150 to obtain it. Practical, probably not. Desire doesn't know practicality ; one thing I am convinced of is Dean knows his desire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Well, heck, just to stir things up. If folks feel the jubs are ugly and too damn big, they should have taken the approach: Dean, if you are getting those speakers, you need to get equipment that matches their, uh, aesthetic appeal. You need to buy Craigs new VRM - Valve Roller's Monster. That might have made for an entertaining thread. Someone could have tried to identify a preamp to fit in with those aesthetic considerations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Amy who said or even hinted that boring was synonymous with a lack of name calling and/or insult? All Im suggesting is that the Forum seems to lack personality lately. Hey, I know where I can go if I want nasty self rightness ignorance but thats not what Im talking about here. Thing is, when something controversial happens to pop up in an otherwise harmonious thread I see no reason to expect everybody to shy away from honest expression. And so what if the expression gets a bit feisty? Anybody reading has the option to click out of the discussion. It seems considerably less rude to suggest someone is full of bologna than it does to interject some off topic mumbo jumbo kum-by-ah garbage into the discussion!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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