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Vinyl more exciting?


pauln
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each play will degrade the recording no matter how little until there may come a time that the music is not all there.

I think that's BS. Maybe in theory it's true but I have some LPs that have been played 100 times and still sound as good as the day I brought them home..........used in many cases! I suppose if they're played a million times they'll eventually wear out. I'd probably be sick of it by then anyway.[;)]

If an LP is well cared for and your table is properly set up and you clean your stylus on a regular basis, an album should last a VERY long time. It's not like a tootsie pop.[:P] (As an Old Timer, I assume you remember that commercial?)

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each play will degrade the recording no matter how little until there may come a time that the music is not all there.

I think that's BS. Maybe in theory it's true but I have some LPs that have been played 100 times and still sound as good as the day I brought them home..........used in many cases! I suppose if they're played a million times they'll eventually wear out. I'd probably be sick of it by then anyway.[;)]

If an LP is well cared for and your table is properly set up and you clean your stylus on a regular basis, an album should last a VERY long time. It's not like a tootsie pop.[:P] (As an Old Timer, I assume you remember that commercial?)

I figured someone might chime in. I agree 100% with you, that's why I said "no matter how little." In theory it must be true eventually. Oh yeah, I remember the tootsie pop commercial.

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each play will degrade the recording no matter how little until there may come a time that the music is not all there.

I think that's BS. Maybe in theory it's true but I have some LPs that have been played 100 times and still sound as good as the day I brought them home..........used in many cases! I suppose if they're played a million times they'll eventually wear out. I'd probably be sick of it by then anyway.[;)]

If an LP is well cared for and your table is properly set up and you clean your stylus on a regular basis, an album should last a VERY long time. It's not like a tootsie pop.[:P] (As an Old Timer, I assume you remember that commercial?)

I agree with Gary. Some of my LPs are 30 years old. An incompatible cartridge and tonearm will wear them real fast, though.
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Just wondering if others notice a difference and have thoughts on why...

The adjustments, matching of parts, cleaning, balancing, aligning, and listening - active listening to hear if it is set up well and performing right... with CDs its the convenience of precise reproduction - with records there is more active involvement assessing the production aspect. Anyone feel this or am I just losing it on a rainy Wednesday (too much thunder to hear my SETs)?

Pauln,

Naw you aint losing it. But I will say this, you would fit in perfect with us R2R guys. Not only can you feel the tension from wondering if the vinyl is all the way up to par, you can also fret about whether you are getting the upmost recording quality. On top of that, you can replay the tape and re-live the experience all over again. I have a real cherry Rt-1011 that I would make you one heck of a deal on.[:)]

Travis

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each play will degrade the recording no matter how little until there may come a time that the music is not all there.

I think that's BS. Maybe in theory it's true but I have some LPs that have been played 100 times and still sound as good as the day I brought them home..........used in many cases! I suppose if they're played a million times they'll eventually wear out. I'd probably be sick of it by then anyway.[;)]

If an LP is well cared for and your table is properly set up and you clean your stylus on a regular basis, an album should last a VERY long time. It's not like a tootsie pop.[:P] (As an Old Timer, I assume you remember that commercial?)

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each play will degrade the recording no matter how little until there may come a time that the music is not all there.

I think that's BS. Maybe in theory it's true but I have some LPs that have been played 100 times and still sound as good as the day I brought them home..........used in many cases! I suppose if they're played a million times they'll eventually wear out. I'd probably be sick of it by then anyway.[;)]

If an LP is well cared for and your table is properly set up and you clean your stylus on a regular basis, an album should last a VERY long time. It's not like a tootsie pop.[:P] (As an Old Timer, I assume you remember that commercial?)

Gary,

Are you using, or have you used, Last Record Preservative? (This is a serious question)

Travis

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Mike: Run Google on Dr. Jack Diamond and CD.

Frankly, Paul's thread is rather hard to follow (no fault of Paul...his original question was a good one). I've come to realize there is NOTHING that holds this group together except the common ground of Klipsch. In my case, I have exactly one statement of interest in recorded music: It must be good music, well performed, and well recorded. Whether it is on an 8-Track, cylinder, or computer matters not. I'd rather listen to a fine performance of a great piece recorded by a master engineer on an AM radio than some POS DynaWarp LP of Bobbie Sherman on a million dollar system in a custom room.

Others have completely different approaches to the hobby. Some have recently said "I am getting bored." Sheesh. 15 centuries of glorius music to listen to on systems no Roman emperor could have owned. Maybe we are just a little bit decadent and decayed?

Simply calling it a "hobby" offends me (now, don't go south, I am not flaming anyone here in particular). Music is NOT a hobby for me, it utterly possesses me (try saying that after a few Mickey's Big Mouth). It is more than a hobby, even more than a passion. It is more directly connected to my religion than anything else. I have often said that Bach's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" had a totally haunting sense of infinity about it in that it never seems to begin or end, but one seems to JOIN it for a while, then as mortals must, leave it as it continues to play eternally.

THAT's what I'm talkin' about...

Dave

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each play will degrade the recording no matter how little until there may come a time that the music is not all there.

I think that's BS. Maybe in theory it's true but I have some LPs that have been played 100 times and still sound as good as the day I brought them home..........used in many cases! I suppose if they're played a million times they'll eventually wear out. I'd probably be sick of it by then anyway.[;)]

If an LP is well cared for and your table is properly set up and you clean your stylus on a regular basis, an album should last a VERY long time. It's not like a tootsie pop.[:P] (As an Old Timer, I assume you remember that commercial?)

Gary,

Are you using, or have you used, Last Record Preservative? (This is a serious question)

Travis

Travis,

When I bought my table, they threw in a bottle of the expensive Lyra stylus cleaner. I've been using it ever since and it seems to work great. $45 for a lifetime supply unless it begins to evaporate! I've had it 3 years and I've barely put a dent in the bottle. Is that what you're referring to or are you talking about actual record cleaning fluid?

BTW - I had a bottle of LAST that I purchased about 5 years ago. It's sitting in a drawer somewhere or I gave it away. Can't remember. I think the Lyra works better.

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Interesting comments above. Let me think about those for awhile...

Personally, I think the dynamic range of digital media and low noise level is far better than vinyl, but that's just me.

See this letter from PWK posted by Freddyi on the audioasylum forum referring in part to digital technologies.

DM

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No the Last Record Preservative goes on after the record is cleaned. Supposed to do a whole bunch of thing, including minmize record wear and stylus wear. Some folks swear by it, others say it alters the playback.

Very expensive, I think 40 for on oz (god I sound like my clients), but it only takes a few drops per lp.

Travis

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Wasn't that kinda' the point of having a big record collection..................the more you have, the less you play the same ones over and over again, cutting down on wear of the records, and low stylus pressure...1/2 to 1 gram pressure tops, to reduce wear......Just to much to do, and always some type of tension playing vinyl.................I'll pass on that, 30+ years of spinning Vinyl is more than enough for me............the rest of you, Spin Your Vinyl, and enjoy.........................

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Just wondering if others notice a difference and have thoughts on why...

I don't listen to CDs in the home but I have heard them in cars - seems to me that the exact repeatable reproduction takes some of the excitement and tension out of the music. Playing records to me seems to have more of a live event feeling because there is a subtle tension - something could go wrong. I mean, the playing of a record has a strong production component vs a reproduction component for CDs... does that make sense? The adjustments, matching of parts, cleaning, balancing, aligning, and listening - active listening to hear if it is set up well and performing right... with CDs its the convenience of precise reproduction - with records there is more active involvement assessing the production aspect. Anyone feel this or am I just losing it on a rainy Wednesday (too much thunder to hear my SETs)?

CDs with road noise versus vinyl isn't exactly an A/B comparison. Perception is reality, and perceiving mechanical accuracy can equate into a mechanical presence. I've heard that ethereal dimension in systems that included CD playback however.

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The endless analogue vs digital playback debate:

Both offer advantages/disadvantages, although I must say, the ease, flexibility, and maintenance in CD/DVD formats are far less than that of vinyl IMO. I gotta wonder if the trade-off is really worth the expense. Now for us Oldtimers (not the member), who have already made the investment, it would be foolish to disregard (trash out) that media.

For beginners, I would NOT recommend getting into this entire mess. KISS, keep it simple stupid and be happy w/current technology.

However, it is nice to have the best of both worlds. Again, after weeks and weeks of sorting, I still have about 175 albums in NRMT to MT playback condition of the 420 I inspected. Again, I would inevitably listen to my pristine LP's over CD's in a specific setting. With proper care, vinyl SHOULD last you a lifetime.

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I basically agree with you. I have always believed that chopping up music into teeny-weeny bits and then reassembling them was a tough way to keep the realism, aliveness, electricity, and intimacy of performance. With analog, music sounds and comes across similarly to how it sounds live in performance venues, and that's my standard.

I had a heckuva time finding a satisfactory CD player, being steeped in analog, as even supposedly good CDPs seemed grainy and a step away from the real thing. So, I delayed getting one for several years until I started finding some that seemed to work in my system. Unfortuately, finding a CD player that matches up with analog and musical auditory memory is not only difficult -- it can be a crapshoot in some individual systerms. Moreover, learning to listen to digital went slowly for me in terms of picking up on its disadvantages, and I went through 3 or 4 players before finally settling on what I have now.

I like Boomac's Eastern Electric, Allan really likes his BAT, and I like my Wadia, but I don't know that these experiences are replicable or typical.

Larry

never studied the Eastern Electric much but I did audition one of their preamps. Good stuff!

With digital it is all about the really well engineered and executed players or DACs from companies that are just a world ahead in addressing the details of digital PCM. Someday I will get a Mark Levinson or Meridian or Theta DAC; they have excellent engineering.

Before anyone spends the money on higer performance digital you must be convinced your current CD playback hardware reproduces certain instruments poorly. For me it started out as cymbals, then accoustic piano, then accoustic guitar.

I went with the MSB LINK II and I slightly modded it for EMI and resonance control. A good improvment for less than $ 300. Then I added the GW Labs Upsampler. Now I only listen in 24/ 96. Instrumental realism is not vinyl but I never get annoyed by jitter fatigue anymore. I can fill up the CD changer and listen to 5 CDs non stop without wanting to leave the room except for bathroom breaks and beverages.

I would have to agree with the subject in a summation. $ 250 invested in vinyl playback is far more exciting than the same amount invested in a single box digital source.

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By the time I get to wear a record out, I think I am sick of it anyway. I mean, how many times can you listen to the same thing? I am trying to think for a moment of one the most played records I ever had. Maybe it was "California Bloodlines" - John Stewart. I probably played it 100 times maybe in the 70s. When I got rid of all the LPs in the 80s I replaced it with a CD that I have played maybe twice since then. I mean, if you had 500 records and played them 100 times, that would be like 33,000 hours of play. Maybe take 30 years to do that. How much ya wanna squeeze out of $20 bucks? People are always saying, "CDs will last forever! (even if not true, they last a long time). But, most of the CDs I have I am totally sick of already.

Just because you don't like music, don't insult those people that do.

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By the time I get to wear a record out, I think I am sick of it anyway. I mean, how many times can you listen to the same thing? I am trying to think for a moment of one the most played records I ever had. Maybe it was "California Bloodlines" - John Stewart. I probably played it 100 times maybe in the 70s. When I got rid of all the LPs in the 80s I replaced it with a CD that I have played maybe twice since then. I mean, if you had 500 records and played them 100 times, that would be like 33,000 hours of play. Maybe take 30 years to do that. How much ya wanna squeeze out of $20 bucks? People are always saying, "CDs will last forever! (even if not true, they last a long time). But, most of the CDs I have I am totally sick of already.

I was ( am ) a big John Stewart fan or should I say a big fan of John Stewart. Just the other night I was listening to a number of his lps, California Bloodlines included. Good Stuff. I recently bought a Dave Alvin CD where on it he covers a bunch of California songwriters. In the liner notes he writes of hearing California Bloodlines as a child and having never forgotten it. The first cover on the CD is a very interesting version of the song. You might find it interesting.

Josh

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Mike: Run Google on Dr. Jack Diamond and CD.

Frankly, Paul's thread is rather hard to follow (no fault of Paul...his original question was a good one). I've come to realize there is NOTHING that holds this group together except the common ground of Klipsch. In my case, I have exactly one statement of interest in recorded music: It must be good music, well performed, and well recorded. Whether it is on an 8-Track, cylinder, or computer matters not. I'd rather listen to a fine performance of a great piece recorded by a master engineer on an AM radio than some POS DynaWarp LP of Bobbie Sherman on a million dollar system in a custom room.

Others have completely different approaches to the hobby. Some have recently said "I am getting bored." Sheesh. 15 centuries of glorius music to listen to on systems no Roman emperor could have owned. Maybe we are just a little bit decadent and decayed?

Simply calling it a "hobby" offends me (now, don't go south, I am not flaming anyone here in particular). Music is NOT a hobby for me, it utterly possesses me (try saying that after a few Mickey's Big Mouth). It is more than a hobby, even more than a passion. It is more directly connected to my religion than anything else. I have often said that Bach's "Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring" had a totally haunting sense of infinity about it in that it never seems to begin or end, but one seems to JOIN it for a while, then as mortals must, leave it as it continues to play eternally.

THAT's what I'm talkin' about...

Dave

To me it is emotional involvement you are talking about. Tonight I was doing a quick listen to this compilation CD set called Celtic Circle on disc2 track 5 there is this amazingly emotional piano introduction. Darn piano sounds like it is in my room. Being Irish, well recorded Celtic music really draws me in.

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