AKFEST07 WEEKEND at PICKY'S: (Attendees & Detroit Area Klipschers)

[kev313]

Craig - Any idea where these type of transformer covers come from on page 5, post 890780-ish?

I sort of wouldn't mind finding something like that to put over the grey blocks..

I think that is a KR amp? If so, they are probably in house jobbers.

http://www.kraudio.cz/

[Gilbert]

Well every lascala I've measured poops out at 100Hz [] Whether or not that is low enough is going to be dependant on the music you listen to. I personally prefer for the melody to be present in my music [][]

Not trying to be mean here but honestly I think you need to quit measuring or placing so much emphasis on measurements and just listen to the music. Your comment above just bleeds of preconceived notions getting in the way of what you hear. If you think Lascalas always poop out at 100hZ your way off base. One of the most common comments I get at shows or in my shop is about how taunt, realistic and low the bass extention is for Lascalas. I honestly have no desire for lower bass response out of my system in anyway.

Craig

I enjoy music, truely I do. I even love it, when it comes from a quality sound system, or better yet, Live with a good sound man.....

But that statement "I personally prefer for the melody to be present in my music". You make it sound like a majority of the music's melody is at the bottom end. Yes, that's still an audible signal, even to my 45yr old ears, but melody at 100hz? Now I truely am interested... What music (a majority of the time) do you listen to and enjoy? Gotta be some sort of classical, or possibly opera.

[picky]

Well, isn't it widely accepted that a LaScala doesn't go as low as a Khorn? I mean, I have both here and the khorns give a certain sumthin' sumthin'. I'd think if a poll was run, there would be more LaScala owners using a sub than Khorn people? So why is it a problem that Who feels they lack bass?

meagain: I don't want to get in to the middle of all this discussion about the LaScala's (I LOVE LaScalas by the way), but I believe part of what Craig is taking exception to is that he is saying that certain things were said to him in his demo room on Saturday and certain things being said here in print contradict one-another. I believe Craig is just trying to get clarification as to which part of all that is valid.

That's just what I have observed here. I'm not taking sides or calling anyone out. -Glenn

[cjgeraci]

Well, isn't it widely accepted that a LaScala doesn't go as low as a Khorn? I mean, I have both here and the khorns give a certain sumthin' sumthin'. I'd think if a poll was run, there would be more LaScala owners using a sub than Khorn people? So why is it a problem that Who feels they lack bass?

The fact that a LaScala does not go as low as a Khorn is beside the point. Most acknowledge that a LaScala does not have the low bass down to 30 hz that the Khorn does, but most believe (including Klipsch) that LaScalas and Belles are still strong down at least to 50 hz, which covers a lot of area. And I would venture to guess that most LaScala/Belle owners just use their subs like I used to - covering only the very bottom end (20-50hz).

On the other hand, Who takes the position that LaScalas essentially have no bass below 100 hz, which puts them in the category of being a bookshelf speaker. Thus, the difference of opinion.

Carl.

[NOSValves]

I don't have any expertise, but it seems too many people can sit and recite all kinds of technical jargon and they get lost in the whole purpose.........to enjoy the music. Architects make it look good on paper but in the real world it sometimes just doesn't jive and they can't understand why. I think the same thing happens here. We have all this state of the art equipment and we ( I include myself) we have a tendency to believe what it says, but if we throw out what it tells us and just listen, we find the two don't necessarily coincide. my .02

Bingo someone got the point!!

[DrWho]

Maybe your measuring equipment/setup is defective or maybe its your ears.

That may very well be the case. By all means please provide the measurements that show otherwise. Right now you've got your opinion without any reason other than you enjoy the sound? How did you train yourself to identify different frequency bands? What if my measurements actually represent the true behavior? Is that going to change how you enjoy the speaker?

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/827461.aspx

Instead of trying to make my posts not make sense, maybe you should try to understand where I'm coming from. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish. By all means please point out where I'm contradicting myself. Maybe it'll help if I point out that I never said your lascalas sound horrible.

[DrWho]

we find the two don't necessarily coincide.

Then you aren't interpreting measurements correctly. They always coincide with one another. It's just my two cents, but if someone is going to claim a measurement doesn't coincide with perceptions, then that person better have a lot of experience with measuring and needs to quantify when and what measurements don't coincide with our ears. There's this notion that the ears get turned off when measurement gear comes out....that should never be the case.

[NOSValves]

What if my measurements actually represent the true behavior? Is that going to change how you enjoy the speaker?

Absolutely not!! I'm not a techno babble freak. I know what I enjoy in musical reproduction and have the confidence to trust my ears. Along with 100's of satisfied customers to go along with it. I spent about 30 seconds reading your link before my stomach got queezy and the head started to ache............talk about techno freakin. Try sitting back and enjoying some music some time you may find you become a much more relaxed person.

Craig

[DrWho]

What if my measurements actually represent the true behavior? Is that going to change how you enjoy the speaker?

Absolutely not!! I'm not a techno babble freak. I know what I enjoy in musical reproduction and have the confidence to trust my ears.

Then don't worry about the bass response! It obviously doesn't affect the music to which you listen. The measurements certainly don't change my perspective of how music sounds on them either []

[colterphoto1]

Doc, just step away from the computer.....[*-)]

Next time you come over- NO MEASURING- just pure music and appreciation, mmmk?

Now, everyone please go listen to something.....

[Piranha]

Yeah well, I'll take my flabby, bloated bass Cornwalls over La Scala or Klipschorns anytime. They sound better to my ears. My opinion you know. But hey, to each his own.

May the flames begin. I better duck before the baseball bats come flying out.

And for the record, I used to own La Scala and I have heard Klipschorns many times.

[Parrot]

Cornwalls used to be good enough for Smilin, who is arguably THE greatest audiophile the world has ever known.

[dtel]

Doc, just step away from the computer.....[*-)]

Next time you come over- NO MEASURING- just pure music and appreciation, mmmk?

Now, everyone please go listen to something.....

I want to go just listen and appreciate the music while I measure ! [6]

OK I need some help, I measured the Cornwall, compared to the Industrial LaScalas that were here for a couple of months. And there is not really that much difference in overall size ! []

But they sound different ? I might need a new tape measure ?

Edit : Now I know I need a new tape, I measured the Yamaha RXV and it is almost the same as the HK 930, but they sound totally different ? [8-|]

[Audio Flynn]

I have always felt that lascalas never had bass and will always feel that way. It wasn't until very recently that I have been able to measure it. I am hardly biased by measurements, nor do I let measurements dictate what I hear. It is interesting to note that the measurements always correlate to what I hear, but that's to be expected when interpreting them correctly (since interpretation is the result of what one hears). All the comments from others talking about the "realistic" low bass extension of lascalas is simply the result of untrained ears. These people are hearing the higher order harmonics of the instrument and their ears are filling in the missing gaps. OR, they are simply impressed by strong dynamic output above 100Hz...and I agree, you can get by with this on a lot of music - especially older music where this was more the norm for playback systems.

And yes, I know what a melody is - and I have plenty of music where the melody gets lost on lascalas and even khorns. Why is this such a difficult concept to accept?

To be fair, the lascala is 6dB down from 50-90Hz...a sort of weird plateau thing where the driver is behaving like a direct radiator. Tucked into the corner, ~50Hz is the -3dB point of this plateau, which compared to the rest of the speaker would effectively be a -9dB point. I think that correlates fairly well with the +-5dB that Klipsch rates the speaker. I might be off by a few Hz and 1dB here and there, but it's the general behavior of the speaker. Really, I don't care to argue the point because it is something easily measured (and not debatable unless of course someone wants to provide measurements that show otherwise). If you claim the measurements don't correlate to what you hear, then you aren't interpreting the measurements correctly. Maybe you're associating things with the wrong frequency bands and/or likely being fooled by your own ears filling in the gaps, or whatever - I dunno. I would be extremely curious to know how people know what any frequency sounds like if measurements were never involved...someone somewhere had to assign the number. Maybe y'all are referring to 50 cycles per half a second?...let's make up a new unit called the Lascala Hz (LHz) that is the cycles per quarter second so that the lascala bass bin is a 25 LHz horn. I can't really hear below 25Hz so let's call it a day.

Your so off base its just not worth the effort to educate you. If you think that any Lascala properly setup in the corners is truly down 6db from 50 to 90hz you completely dropped on your head. Maybe your measuring equipment/setup is defective or maybe its your ears. It's fairly obvious that you have zero faith in your own hearing or are not mature enough to like something without some electrical measuring device to tell you that you should like it.

I hate to state the obvious but when you were in my room with Lascalas that you obvious "think" are horrible speakers you professed that you wanted to own one of my amplifiers. Now I would have to ask if the Lascala speakers are as bad as you profess then what in the heck would make you want the amp that was driving them? You sir have a confused mind and need to garnish some more experience. You make about zero sense here.

Craig

I enjoy music, truely I do. I even love it, when it comes from a

quality sound system, or better yet, Live with a good sound man.....

But that statement "I personally prefer for the melody to be present in my music".

You make it sound like a majority of the music's melody is at the

bottom end. Yes, that's still an audible signal, even to my 45yr old

ears, but melody at 100hz? Now I truely am interested... What music (a

majority of the time) do you listen to and enjoy? Gotta be some sort of

classical, or possibly opera.

======================

I concur with Craig and Gilbert.

Colter;

You really do not get it. I am unconcerned with whether or not some one is 23 or brings his test equipment to your house. Fact is he discredits your employers product (Stereophile Class B LS) and you defend him. Gilbert asks a pertinent question that Who ignores.

A few months ago Who says musical infomation exists at 10 hz and I demonstrate no manufacture writes a spec for microphones less than 20 hz and no industrial open reel tape recorder manufacturer (Ampex or Studer) specs there recorders below 20 hz.

Who writes we should contradict him. I think he ought to have a grasp of reality before he types nonsense that could lose potential customers for Klipsch products.

[DrWho]

But that statement "I personally prefer for the melody to be present in my music".

You make it sound like a majority of the music's melody is at the

bottom end. Yes, that's still an audible signal, even to my 45yr old

ears, but melody at 100hz? Now I truely am interested... What music (a

majority of the time) do you listen to and enjoy? Gotta be some sort of

classical, or possibly opera.

It really doesn't matter what music I listen to and enjoy. Just because

a few of my favorite songs have melodies that low doesn't mean all the

rest of the music in the world follows suit (nor any of the other music

I choose to listen to). Should we expand to go on to talk about

harmonies too? Or do they not count? How about subharmonics? Where do

you draw the line on what frequency ranges are important or not? Be

sure to include how you know what that frequency range sounds like too.

And then are you going to impose your opinion on others that feel

differently? Oh my goodness, it's the end of the world because Doc

enjoys music with low frequency content!!! Ahhhhhh run away! Shame on

him for preffering something else!

[DrWho]

Next time you come over- NO MEASURING- just pure music and appreciation, mmmk?

What's wrong with measuring? Does my ability to enjoy and appreciate music diminish because I also enjoy the engineering process?

I know that's not what you're saying and you know I'm always up for some tunes. I don't think we've quite made it through your entire music collection yet []

[DrWho]

You really do not get it. I am unconcerned with whether or not some one is 23 or brings his test equipment to your house. Fact is he discredits your employers product (Stereophile Class B LS) and you defend him. Gilbert asks a pertinent question that Who ignores.

Oh man, gotta love the age comment! Never heard that one before [Y]

Discrediting Klipsch? My oh my. The latest on the website claims an 8dB window from 50Hz-17kHz.....which certainly fits within my measurements. What about the measurements performed by djk? Who's mouth does it need to come from? Someone at Klipsch? Or can it only come from PWK?

Stop trying to make up contradictions because you don't know what you're talking about.

A few months ago Who says musical infomation exists at 10 hz and I demonstrate no manufacture writes a spec for microphones less than 20 hz and no industrial open reel tape recorder manufacturer (Ampex or Studer) specs there recorders below 20 hz.

Hmmmm, good thing tape and mics aren't the only tools being used in the recording studio! [Y] Shame on Blue Man Group for touring around with a PA capable of 10Hz and putting that same sound on their digital recordings. And shame on me for enjoying it!

Who writes we should contradict him. I think he ought to have a grasp of reality before he types nonsense that could lose potential customers for Klipsch products.

Grasp of reality?!? ROFLOLOLOL [Y]

Here's your button [bs]

[Piranha]

OK, everyone repeat after me, kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya! I think it's time for a group hug, what do you think? [{][}]

[Amy]

OK, everyone repeat after me, kumbaya, my Lord, kumbaya! I think it's time for a group hug, what do you think? [{][}]

Agreed!

[jacksonbart]

Dr Who is down, careful he regenerates and comes back for another 24 seasons on the BBC