AKFEST07 WEEKEND at PICKY'S: (Attendees & Detroit Area Klipschers)

[dkp]

Did everyone remember to thank Mr. Picky for being the most excellent host?

Yes, mother. []

[gaspr]

I enjoy reading the opinions of everyone here. However much I

respect the experience of many here, the opinions backed up by well

made measurements will always carry more weight with me. Seems

there is a lot to learn from some of the newer measuring

techniques. Lets all just keep an open mind here and perhaps we

can all learn something new. Keep up the good work Dr Who.

But we still need to work on your taste in music.[]

[NOSValves]

lol, I would love to swing by your place sometime. Sounds like we'd have a rocking good time. As far as klipsch speakers....Lascala 2 + Ultra2 subs would be my current favorite.

Now you see that would be my least favorite combo! I'm sure I would like the Lascala II's just fine but forget the subs they sounded like dung at the pilgrimage mixer 2 years ago mostly because the HT freaks from Klipsch refused to keep them turned downed so you could not pick them out from a mile away. Some folks are hung up on the boomy low bass sound whether it be movies or music. To me it sound like sh!t. Many folks at that year pilgrimage mentioned the same impression to me. I kept turning it down and they kept cranking it up.

Craig

[NOSValves]

Everyone gets to freely express their opinions except Mike, who has to create a resume and list all of his credentials before doing so.

Naaa we need credentials from you also!!

[picky]

Did everyone remember to thank Mr. Picky for being the most excellent host?

Thanks Michael, but the guys have all thanked me profusely. They were all a joy to have over the house and I learned a lot for each of their opinions about our room. Each of their personalities differs uniquely, yet most of the conclusions they drew about the room were similar and backed consequently up by the measurements that were taken. Having these guys over was a sheer pleasure for Verna, Rose (mom) and I. They are truly welcome back (including you, Colter) any time they are in the area. Thanks guys for being such wonderful guests! -Glenn<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

DeanG: You crack me up, man! What a great comment about Doc!! []

[meagain]

Craig - are you going to "KlipschFest" or not?

[DrWho]

OK - You are telling me you prefer Forte II over Khorns? I don't have Forte II but I have Chorus II. I've only heard 'my' Chorus II so for all I know something is wrong with them, but gosh - I don't feel Chorus II and Khorns are in the same league. I forgot what this mid-bass hump is about but are you saying this is audible? I often wonder if the khorns you've heard were properly set up or had spruced up or new crossovers. And wonder why a sub is needed for 2-ch music.

From an engineering standpoint I think the khorn is by far the coolest and most innovative speaker in the world. It's probably one of the best speakers for the playback of classical music, but it's just not as well rounded as the Forte2 where most everything is gonna sound good on it. I think many people would find the Chorus II a bit bass shy - especially compared side by side with a Cornwall. I find the Cornwall sounds awesome with rock and jazz (though I don't feel confident commenting about jazz considering I don't care for the genre), but the Chorus II can do most of the same....just with much cleaner mids. I think you'd have a real winner if you could combine the MF/HF of the Chorus II with the LF and larger baffle of the Cornwall 3...

From a recommendation standpoint on the forum, I would feel the most comfortable recommending the Forte2 since most any listening styles and genres are going to sound good. I certainly can't ignore all the people that love the khorn though, but it's one of those speakers that you'll either love or hate - and it's probably based upon the genre of music...While I have an appreciation for classical music (heck, I still play viola), it's just not my favorite thing to listen to at home....so don't let me say the khorn is crap, but it's not my favorite speaker either.

This is where I'll refer to my signature line, because really, it's all about compromise.

In fact, Glenn asked me a few questions about the measurements wondering what I might go about changing with his system...my response was that he's done a great job with the compromises in his system and there wasn't really anything he could change without totally changing all sorts of other variables...and who knows what new problems might be introduced in the process. While I would always argue that improvements could be made, we need to keep in mind the big picture....especially if you already enjoy the sound you have.

Anyways, that's just my two cents...hopefully I won't have to provide a resume' for these opinions either []

[NOSValves]

Craig - are you going to "KlipschFest" or not?

Only time will tell...... but I'd say the chances are slim. I'm simply too busy. Heck I had no business doing the AKfest in all honesty.

Craig

[Amy]

Craig - are you going to "KlipschFest" or not?

Only time will tell...... but I'd say the chances are slim. I'm simply too busy. Heck I had no business doing the AKfest in all honesty.

Craig

[:'(]

[IndyKlipschFan]

Craig please go to the Klipsch Weekend.. If not, you will be seriously missed!

[picky]

Craig please go to the Klipsch Weekend.. If not, you will be seriously missed!

Craig: I second that! .......Actually, Third if you count Amy's [:'(] LOLOL! -Glenn

[bodcaw boy]

Duh!.... and I know your not a rocket scientist too, but you dodged the question. You said that a few of your favorite songs carry melodies at or below 100hz. Well name them, name 1. Name 1 song that carries a melody at 100hz and below. You started this with your opinionated comment, now finish it like a man

I probably misunderstood your post then. My apologies. If you're seriously interested I can provide a list. Here's just a few of my favorites off the top of my head: "Bullet" by Covenant mentioned earlier in this thread, "The Siren" by Nightwish, or how about "Safe From Harm" by Massive Attack?<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

And what you said to some poor guy with a high $$ TT setup, WOW, that can only be described as either arrogant or stupid.

It was an innocent comment merely meant as noticing that there was no noise and the typical "voicing" I've come to associate with vinyl. It was actually meant as a compliment. I suppose in retrospect it was a foot in mouth comment, but I shared it with the forum cuz it's kinda funny too...

From a view of the pictures, I'd say Doc (what an oxymoron that is) can't be, but maybe 22 to 25yrs, max. Thats not to say that intelligence has a specific age, but I'm interested now in knowing what the hell is DrWhos background. WHO IS DRWHO. Ive been hear a while, and Ive never entered your threads or questioned your comments. Im sure there are others, like myself, that have read your opinionated statements, and are at least a tiny bit curious. What makes you believe you have the ability to critique a sound system, any system, even a ghetto blaster.

So, with that said, Mike (aka DrWho), what is your experience? It's obvious you've played with audio signals and an O-scope, it's even obvious, at least from an extremely limited number of your posts, that you have at least a basic understanding of sound waves, but.. What is your experience?

I don't ever remember reading about it somewhere. Did you ever work for a big-time, small-time, anytime kinda audiophile or stereo publication. Did you work at <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><?xml:namespace prefix = u1 />CircuitCity? Were you, or are you a sound mixer for a big group..... Metalica, Rolling Stones, N-sync, Mili Vanilli? Ever build an Amp (solid-state or otherwise), how about a preamp, or maybe a speaker cable?

WHO IS DRWHO.... Now, my interpretations may very well be wrong, but what real-life experience do you have? How many years? Any Thesiss floating around out there? Lord knows Ive read enough of you opinionated BS comments without ever saying anything. But now I gotta ask, because of the consistently arrogant way you come across on this forum...... What makes you think your it, when it comes to being able to critique sound quality? What makes you think your opinion is worth considering? What have you accomplished with respect to the subject matter at hand?

Sorry, for putting you on the spot, I honestly am. But because of the COUNTLESS (and there are that many+more), BOLD and OPINIONATED comments you have made on so many many many threads, I am finally compelled to ask. WHO IS DRWHO What is your experience?

I already know the kind of answer Im going to get, but I had to throw this out there. Sorry dude, but your full of yourself.

I'm kinda curious what kind of answer you're expecting to get. I know I frequently come across as arrogant and it's something I've been trying to work on for quite some time now - not exactly a character trait I prefer to have. I would probably argue that I don't see myself as being arrogant, but apparently the psychologists claim arrogant people don't notice it and will argue otherwise (kinda puts me in a catch 22)...nevertheless, I'm open to suggestions on changing my writing style. Nerds aren't exactly known for elegant communication skills...

For what it's worth, the username DrWho comes from a British Sci-Fi....I believe it's one of the, if not thee, oldest consecutive running TV series. You can read all about it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/

I picked up the nickname quite a few years ago from a bunch of European friends and have pretty much stuck with it - more people refer to me as "doc" than they do "mike"...I'm most certainly not trying to pretend to be a real Dr of anything.

As far as my experience....are you seriously asking or just trying to make a point? I've shared quite a bit about my past on the forum over the years, but I'm more than willing to provide a summary if you're not just trying to start an argument. I very much dislike pissing matches. I'm even willing to go into details if that's what you want. I might ask the same favor in return though as I too enjoy learning where people are coming from. There's certainly no shortage of different backgrounds on the forum.

Btw, I'm 23.

doc,

you go ahead and express your opinion without the resume. i would much rather hear your opinion than alot of the so-called "experts" on this forum....

have a blessed day,

roy delgado

[NOSValves]

Actaully I'd rather hear Doc's opinion then the so called "real" professional expert myself. At least its comical.

[bodcaw boy]

see doc! what did i tell you.......so called expert alert!!

have a blessed day,

roy delgado

[picky]

EDIT []

Roy Delgado: I'm sorry I didn't get the chance to meet you in Hope last June. i guess I missed meeting you by about 10 minutes! Rats! Will you be in Indy in June?

[jacksonbart]

Roy: I'm sorry I didn't get the chance to meet you in Hope last June. i guess I missed meeting you by about 10 minutes! Rats! Will you be in Indy in June?

My name is not Roy

[IndyKlipschFan]

From Mike aka Dr Who...

I had the pleasure of swinging by Indyklipschfan's Home Theater this past weekend. I've got a new portable measurement rig and I've been looking for excuses to measure and this was just such an occasion. Roger had been having trouble dialing in his Ultra2 subs and was seeking a little input as he was having absolutely no luck. He had the reciever at +10 on the sub channel and the subwoofer amp turned up all the way...sure, it was just barely fine at around 80Hz, but it was seriously lacking below 40Hz - in fact, it was distorted as all heck, even as low as 80dB.

(That was the sub signal from the Sunfire Theater Grand IV which is weird..I agree) People with THX Ultra 2 pre amps will never have this problem. (Colterphoto.. grrrrr your lucky!) Everything else about the sunfire is wayyy over any of my expectations.. Just this issue to fix.)

That's no good for a driver that can handle something like 2000W and play over 120dB (you could practically plug the subs into the wall with that rating....)

The issue turned out to be a weak subwoofer output from his sunfire pre/pro and a "pro-amp" style input on the THX Ultra2 subwoofer amp. There is an impedance mismatch between the two units and the Sunfire isn't able to provide the voltage necessary to drive the input of the sub amp properly. It's not really Klipsch's fault because they're following the Ultra2 spec, but it's also not really Sunfire's fault since I'm sure their output works fine with most every sub on the market. So instead of pointing fingers, the two simply don't play well with each other.

It is a lot better than it used to be... But add the mixer in the system as is now.. OMG what a huge difference!!

The solution is pretty simple though. We ran the subwoofer output from the pre/pro into the tape inputs on a mixer Roger had "laying around". We routed the signal into the "control room" output feed which means the signal is completely seperate from anything else you might do on the mixer. In the process, the RCA signal gets converted to a 1/4" pro-level output that we converted back to RCA and sent to the subwoofer amp. We were then able to put the reciever at +0dB in the reciever, and the volume knob on the sub to straight up.

Since most people don't have mixers "laying around", I'm going to whip together a circuit that will do the boosting for people. I've tried all sorts of crazy solutions out there and none of them work as well as the mixers do - so I'll just "copy" the circuit over (maybe make it a bit more applicable in the process).

My goodness the difference was unbelievable. Right away we started throwing music through the system and it sounded glorious.

Glorious is right... Almost unbelieveable.. cranked up it is down right scary too!

Anyways, the whole purpose of this thread was to share some rough measurements of his response. Originally I told Roger that he had 13Hz extension which is probably a bit ambitious. After gating the data better it looks like he has an F3 of 15Hz - which is actually quite impressive. A lot of subs are rolling off early at these frequencies - especially in a room this size. It will probably move up to around 19Hz though once a few acoustical issues are taken care of.

And that was 17 feet back as well. heheheheheehe

There's a little tweaking to be done, but after measuring the minor issues should be very easy to tackle. I believe I'll be going back early this summer to spend a few days getting everything as good as I know how to do things - I guess it'll be a good time to find out how much I don't know

We all love to tweek it... But seriously here.. in a 2 channel or HT environment this is a a very scary as all get out. (Meaning a great combo.) While I agree with Craig, you need to turn it down just under what you think for 2 channel to not get any un natural excessive boominess... For HT, I can only imagine some of Pick's demo material once we get this thing "dialed in" too. OMG!!!!

Aaron Copland's CD I got from Paul Parrott.... now with the bass signal boosted.. I am serious.. It is soo glorious, it almost made me cry.. It is just that darn incredible!!!

What are your thoughts (Or anyone elses) on the Velodyne SMS-1 sub bass system? It might boost the signal and room correct EQ it out very nice as well?

[michael hurd]

Indy FWIW, I think that the Behringer FBD is a better bargain used as a subwoofer EQ. Granted it does not have the mic and the onscreen display that the SMS-1 has, it is a heck of a lot cheaper. The Behringer can be had new in box for about a hundred bucks, and the velodyne unit is over 6 times the price.

[sunburnwilly]

Indy FWIW, I think that the Behringer FBD is a better bargain used as a subwoofer EQ. Granted it does not have the mic and the onscreen display that the SMS-1 has, it is a heck of a lot cheaper. The Behringer can be had new in box for about a hundred bucks, and the velodyne unit is over 6 times the price.

The Velodyne EQ is pretty cool though .

[DrWho]

The Velodyne EQ is pretty cool though.

Does it work with fixed frequencies and fixed Q's? Or do they change to match those of the problems?