Rockford_622 Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Long story short, my 4.1 do not work at all. The CP-1 is new (just got that replaced) and the LED on that pod does not illuminate due to the DIN plug not outputting +15 VDC. The fuse is not blown and the power supply board has around 160 VDC coming into it. The BASH board has around 56 VDC going into it, but the power supply only outputs around 2 VDC. The R27 resistor on the power supply board was open, but no signs of damage. We think the value is 6K ohms, but the markings are really hard to make out. Does anyone know the correct value for this resistor? Better yet, does anyone have a schematic of the power supply board? Does anyone know the correct voltage the power supply should output? -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptron Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 I hope this helps. I've got a v.2-400 not a 4.1 so I'm not sure if R27 is the same. It certainly wasn't 6k. The board is the 640014 rev 6. On mine R27 is TWO 10ohm resistors in parallel, one on each side of the board. Sounds a little strange but it looks stock. They appear to be in series with either the + or - 30some volt supply to the three voltage regulators on the same card as the mains rectifier and speaker jacks. It's been about a month since I traced this out so I'm not positive which one. These resistors were open on mine too. I replaced them and they burned up again instantly. It turned out that one of the 15v regulators was shorting to the backplate via the heatsink clip. the pod is supplied by these regulators so if your R27 is open that explains your lack of 15v on the DIN. As far as the what the output of the power supply should be please see this thread. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/849925.aspx I've drawn up a very rough schem of the power supply (it's missing a lot of values and reference #s(because you can't se a lot of them under the components)) It probably has a few mistakes too. I could scan and send it to you. or anyone else for that matter. especially if I could get some working power supply voltages in return. Christ, I'm OCD about this stuff. Next I'm going to clean my carpet with a pair of tweezers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford_622 Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Thanks for the reply Ptron. Visually the 4.1 system and your v.2-400 system look the same, but it sounds like there are some differences. My power supply board is a 640014 rev 6 as well, but clearly does not have 2 resistors in series for the R27. I can't figure out how they can have 2 boards with the same number and rev, but with different component layouts. I did take a look at that thread you linked and I think it will help diagnose the problem with my set. It looks like you get 32v out of your power supply? Is this correct? We have replaced the 6K ohm resistor (or at least that is what it looks like) with 3 18k resistors in parallel (that is all we had laying around) and get a steady 2 volts out of the power supply. Not enough to illuminate the led on the control pod. If you could scan your schematic and send it to mattroush@mccgp.com that would be great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptron Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Thanks for the reply Ptron. Visually the 4.1 system and your v.2-400 system look the same, but it sounds like there are some differences. My power supply board is a 640014 rev 6 as well, but clearly does not have 2 resistors in series for the R27. I can't figure out how they can have 2 boards with the same number and rev, but with different component layouts. I did take a look at that thread you linked and I think it will help diagnose the problem with my set. It looks like you get 32v out of your power supply? Is this correct? We have replaced the 6K ohm resistor (or at least that is what it looks like) with 3 18k resistors in parallel (that is all we had laying around) and get a steady 2 volts out of the power supply. Not enough to illuminate the led on the control pod. If you could scan your schematic and send it to mattroush@mccgp.com that would be great! Actually, it's two 10ohm resistors in parallel on mine. This seems to be a modification on Klipsch's or Bash's part as they wouldn't have designed the layout that way. Any chance you're not reading that 6k right due to discoloration? The +&- 32V is to mains/speaker board. I get 56V coming out of the 640014 going to the 610036 I'll send you that schematic as soon as I can Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford_622 Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 You're right, you did say parallel []. My fault. I don't think we are misreading the R27 resistor. Here is a picture of it: It looks like the bands are Black, Blue, Orange, Gold which would indicate 6K ohms. It is totally open, which is strange considering it looks to be in decent condition. Thanks you in advance for the schematic! I think we are going to focus on testing the 3 voltage regulators (U2, U3, and U4) on the speaker terminal board next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptron Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 It looks like the bands are Black, Blue, Orange, Gold which would indicate 6K ohms. Ah! Those are are alomost certainly discolored. (AFIK black is never used as the first band and 6K would be Blue Black Red) In fact your picture looks something like my original (assumed) 10 ohm ones Brown Black Gold, just discolored from overheating. It is pretty apparent though that the third "Gold" band on yours doesn't look anything like the gold tolerence band. Maybe it totally burned off or maybe it is something else. I'll see if I can find the original one when I get home and see why I decided it was 10ohms. If you'll scroll down, you'll find a thread I started, asking for the value of R27. Nobody ever responded to it It is totally open, which is strange considering it looks to be in decent condition. Mine looked ok too (except for the discoloration). Thanks you in advance for the schematic! I think we are going to focus on testing the 3 voltage regulators (U2, U3, and U4) on the speaker terminal board next. Just glad to be getting responese from someone on this board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford_622 Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 Thanks, I appreciate any help you can lend. If only Klipsch would give us the schematics I know they have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptron Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 In fact your picture looks something like my original (assumed) 10 ohm ones Brown Black Gold my bad. 10 ohms is Brown Black Black in the 4 band system ( 5% and 10% tolerence, carbon comp and carbon film) and Brown Black Black Gold in the 5 band system ( 1% and 2% tolerence, Metal film). Yours looks like neither. It looks like 10k (Brown Black Orange) but that just can't be right as it would drop significant voltage when the +or- 32V supplys draw current. Sorry I forgot to try to find the originals to see why I thought they were 10 ohms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford_622 Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 Yep, 10K does sound way too high, your right. We did replace the 6K resistor we had in there with a 600 (thinking that we were misreading the multiplier band) and I did get ~32 volts out of the power supply to the speaker terminal board. Thanks for the schematics, by the way. They are a great help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptron Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Does the whole thing work now? If you get it working, I might ask you to return the favor by measuring a couple voltages for me. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford_622 Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 Not yet. We are able to get 32 v from the ribbon cable coming down from the power supply to the audio connection board, but as soon as we plug the ribbon cable into the board the voltage drops down to around 2 volts. We are thinking something is shorted on that board (the 630043 Rev 4 board) due to the extreme voltage drop when the cable is plugged back in. That would explain why my R27 resistor was open, it may have just burned up from the other board being shorted. We are focusing on the 3 voltage regulators, the 2 positive and the 1 negative on the 630043 board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptron Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 We really need to get somebody with good R27 to tell us what it is. LITTLE HELP, PEOPLE! You may also have a short on that board (I did) but I still say 600ohms is way high. Any current that those regulators draw goes through R27. If those regulator draws more than 20mA, then more than (20mA) x (600ohms) = 12V is dropped across that resistor! That leaves less than 20V feeding the input of first regulator, whos output is supposed to be 20V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford_622 Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 One of the guys on this board did email me and told me his R27 was 4.5 Ohms. Does this sound reasonable? I say yes, but from looking at my resistor, I can't imagine how I could get that value from those colored bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptron Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 One of the guys on this board did email me and told me his R27 was 4.5 Ohms That certainly jives with my two parallel 10ohms. Any chance at all that that resistor in the picture was a 10ohm? The first 2 bands look brown and black to me, but that could just be how they come out in the photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford_622 Posted March 27, 2007 Author Share Posted March 27, 2007 It certaintly seems like it should be somewhere around 10 Ohms, but the real resistor looks as depicted in the picture. I can't really figure out how to get 10 Ohms from those bands. We are going to trace out the speaker output board where the voltage regulators are and see if we can find a problem on that board. It seems that something on that board is preventing my CP-1 from receiving 15 volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptron Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Well, I handed myself a nice little setback. I go to work on this thing for the first time in a few days, plug it in, and promptly explode a TL082 on one of the amplifier boards. Only then did I noticed that I had left the power suplly unhooked, both the +-34 cable and the big +- leads from the 610036. something must have been touching something, otherwise how do you blow something up on a board that's got no power to it? I plugged the big leads back up in to make sure they wouldn't touch anything, left the 34 off, plugged it back in...bzzzpop. I blew up the same TL082s on at least two other amp boards (the remaining two may be gone without visible signs). I now have a short to ground on both the + and - 15V rails, somewhere on the amp cards to figure out. Whether this short is the cause or a result of my mishap I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford_622 Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 Sorry to hear about your misfortune! Hopefully that is all you blew up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockford_622 Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Finally got around to getting my system up and running. Found out that the problem was the bad R27 resistor on the power supply board. Replaced it with 4 47 ohm 1/2 watt resistors in parallel (giving close to 10 ohms, which is what I believe is the correct resistor rating) and all it working again. Ptron, let me know if I can help you by measuring any voltages on my board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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