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I need an education


arfandbark
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Gilbert......I like Home theatre so I have Digital.....and now I have Tube Analog......I have best of both worlds.....[:D]...Parrot is bustin' my nuts, that's fine, I'm a Big Guy, I can take it...............Wording not too strong, say what you think, No Problem, it's PARROT.............

Yea, Parrots can be real nut crackers.

We have similar systems. I've purchased a reportedly high quality SS HTS and SS 2 channel system (pure class A amplification). Have used the HTS extensively with music only too. Then, just a few years ago, purchased my first tubed 2 channel system. I even have another SS 2 channel, but it's low budget rig, and gets used only during the summer when the kids can get in the pool. That was until I purchased my first tubed system. The wife was so impressed with the SQ of the tubed system that she asked me to move a pair of the Indust. Heresy's out near the pool area.

I'll soon to have a 2nd 2-channel tubed systems. Craigs VRD's mated ot Mark's BBX. For me, it wasn't more than a couple hours after listening to my first tubed 2 channel that I knew I had found musical utopia. And that was with a pair of orig. non-maintained MC60's, that craig brought to 100%. There's just something IMHO, about the smoothness of tubes.

Call it signal with a tube signatured, or stained music.... it's still the best music my ears have listened to. I love tubes, for music they just can't be beat. Don't know about these relatively low output SET systems, but I think I'd like to try one. If for nothing else, just for the experience.

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Gilbert............The ol' Parrot likes to bust on people from time to time, that's what I like about Parrot, no one is spared, equal treatment for all, it's just he sheds those damn feathers all over the place...................It didn't take more than half a CD to know the Scott was staying, spent the first 10 days grinning from ear to ear.............Electric Ladyland almost sounds like JIMI had tubes in mind when he recorded it.....but......then came a big mistake on my part......I thought the Scott had great BASS response with my Heresy's, good, I don't need to run my sub with it, I made the mistake of hookin' up the Sub............What a difference, awesome bottom......Had to look at the speakers again, they can't be Heresy's, they have Bass response...and so the saga continues............My jaw is sore from when it hit the floor, but feels better now............Crazy road this audio hobby, many hidden twist and turns............I'm a happy man, and even a Parrot can't change that......................EH !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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well, a few years ago (in a Galaxy far,far away....Denver) I borrowed a old Dynaco Tube amp and tried it out on my old system. my wife and I were floored by the sound!...we listened to some Louis Armstrong, and we honestly had to check to see if the old guy was playing in the next room. we listened to some Tony Bennett and once again, the vocals were killer. I wish I could find some tube equpment around my little town. but, I kinda live out in the boonies in TX.

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Arf, if you want to save yourself a lot of time, trouble, and money, I'd pay a visit to the necromancer's basement, and listen to a few examples of tubes in the workshop of the telescopes. We can blather all day long about topologies, driver tubes, output tubes, current draws, warmup periods, and the color of the plastic on those ole patch cord thingamagigs, but the transfixation happens when you listen to the real thing.

I've have had both tubes and SS since I got back into the stereo thing about five years ago, and there were three or four minor epiphanies when I got the chance to see and hear Craig's basement. The best thing is you can stick your toes in the water, enjoy what you hear, and not lose your shirt in doing so. Call Craig, make a trip, and enjoy the swim!

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As usual, I disagree with the raucous Parrot. When

you have big ole horns, you dont need a lot of watts, but you will appreciate good, clean power and solid bass control (this often comes with high wattage amplifiers). As far as budget is concerned, the new, low cost, class T analogue input, digital output amplifiers are the first choice in bargain amplifiers for big ole horns. They cost less than refurbished, vintage integrated tube amplifiers and sound smooth in the mid and high range, with competent performance in the bass especially considering their cost. The Sonic Impact 5066, with adapter, is only $35!

Tubes, however, can do things in the mid-range that only the very best solid-state amplifier I ever heard, the $6,000 Pass X250, could approximate.

I tried using the Sonic, Red Wine digital amplifiers and vintage HK 330B (single transformer) receiver to drive my Khorn bass bins, but nothing delivered the goods like my 48-pound, solid-state, class A Pioneer M-22 (60-wats peak). It had as much control as the Pass X250, except of course without as much punch. The X250 doubles its wattage not just into 4-ohms, but into 2-ohms also!! So for me, the best of both world is driving my mid and high range horns with my Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour monoblocks (6-watts peak) and my bass bins with my Pioneer.

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There are many speakers that will drop down to 2 ohms at some point in the frequency spectrum - many hybrid panels do for a start.

As for digital amps - contrary to popular belief they are not all bad - nor all good. I built an amp based on the Hyperex boards and was hugely diappointed in them - considering the positive reviews they have received. OTOH I am currently borrowing the MX-D1 500 wpc Yamaha amp and this is simply the best amp I have heard under $20,000.

For reference I have owned many amps - tube, SS, good, bad, expensive, cheap, hi power, lower power and have heard too many systems now to remember.

Sadly unlike Dave my audio memory is far from perfect. I tend to identify certain portions of a system's playback (good or bad) for comparison which often means I will miss other elements that can be better or worse than I recognised in my initial assessment.

As it happens I am about to get my bluff seriously called. Was at a friends house on Friday with about $200K's worth of stereo system. Voice was best I have ever heard - but classical fell over and I said so, adding that my own humble system betters it for large scale classical.

They are coming to my house to verify what I said - somewhat dubious of my claims I think - God help me - I think I am right but without that perfect audio memory who can be sure?

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well, a few years ago (in a Galaxy far,far away....Denver) I borrowed a old Dynaco Tube amp and tried it out on my old system. my wife and I were floored by the sound!...we listened to some Louis Armstrong, and we honestly had to check to see if the old guy was playing in the next room. we listened to some Tony Bennett and once again, the vocals were killer. I wish I could find some tube equpment around my little town. but, I kinda live out in the boonies in TX.

Don't think anyone has said "Welcome" yet...

I have an Audio Fidelity "Best of Louis Armstrong" LP I consider one of the finest I've ever heard. Like you, when played through my Dynaco ST-80 Louis is downright spooky with realism. It's obvious you have internet, so even the Texas boonies have access to Ebay as well as all the great deals you will find from Forum members. You already have the WAF...go for one while you can!

Max, and all. Seems to be a bit of skepticism regarding my audio memory. Most of us here seem to have some exceptional audio related "powers." Some can hear differences in speaker interconnects, others in various power conditioners, and on and on. I never publicly or privately doubt these abilities. I also sincerely believe that Polly has never heard a decent digital amp. Why should I doubt it? I am constantly amazed at the individual nature of existence. For years I took it for granted that everyone walked around with music playing in their heads. A few years ago I mentioned something about it to another who responded they NEVER heard music in their heads. I've asked many since then and, in fact, the numbers are small who do. In my case, the music never ceases except when I sit in front of my system and meld with it. When it comes to a live event, the experience, espcially if I am recording, is not simply intense, it is transcendental. As I hear it in my head on the way home the sound of a rustled program, or the slap of overbowing on a cello, or a passing Harley in the distance will be there...as it will be for as long as my brain gets blood.

It is in this context I judge equipment. If I go to a fellow hornheads home and listen to their recordings, I will have an exceptional time (assuming the system is good) but rarely is any imprint left of the system. If I have my own recordings with me I can get a far better idea of system quality as, in that case, I have an "A-B" ability by comparing it with the imprint of the original experience.

I regret the "armchair audiophile" comment as it was uncalled for and could apply to me as well as I don't build speakers or amps and many here those things with exceptional and extraordinary skill. Long day...

Oh, well, going on days off starting today and can regen with MUSIC!!!!!!

Dave

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A perfect memory could be tested. I read a list of twenty terms to you, and you repeat them back to me from memory. I can compare what you remember to my list, and score the accuracy.

But a perfect auditory memory? It's untestable. How could anyone else know whether you remember what a performance sounded like? How can you yourself know if you remember it correctly, or if you just think you do? You're asking us to believe you, based on faith.

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I have an Audio Fidelity "Best of Louis Armstrong" LP I consider one of the finest I've ever heard. Like you, when played through my Dynaco ST-80 Louis is downright spooky with realism.

Very fine recording, Dave. Even on your crap digital amp [bs] You kept losing us that night with your smorgasbord of selections (and equipment); I never knew which amp was driving those big ol' horns!

Rick

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I have an Audio Fidelity "Best of Louis Armstrong" LP I consider one of the finest I've ever heard. Like you, when played through my Dynaco ST-80 Louis is downright spooky with realism.

Very fine recording, Dave. Even on your crap digital amp [bs] You kept losing us that night with your smorgasbord of selections (and equipment); I never knew which amp was driving those big ol' horns!

Rick

I agree. I did a pretty poor job of programming that night. I've a few excuses but I'll save them... Next time, I'll have some logic to the mix and rhyme to the reason, as well as get that rats nest of wiring cleaned up. I was properly shamed into doing a toothbrush, paintbrush, canned air, and Qtip job on the ST80. Looks as good as it sounds now.

I rushed a gathering because I was missing kindred spirits...and I am NOT sorry! I enjoyed you guys.

Dave

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I have an Audio Fidelity "Best of Louis Armstrong" LP I consider one of the finest I've ever heard. Like you, when played through my Dynaco ST-80 Louis is downright spooky with realism.

Very fine recording, Dave. Even on your crap digital amp [bs] You kept losing us that night with your smorgasbord of selections (and equipment); I never knew which amp was driving those big ol' horns!

Rick

I agree. I did a pretty poor job of programming that night. I've a few excuses but I'll save them... Next time, I'll have some logic to the mix and rhyme to the reason, as well as get that rats nest of wiring cleaned up. I was properly shamed into doing a toothbrush, paintbrush, canned air, and Qtip job on the ST80. Looks as good as it sounds now.

I rushed a gathering because I was missing kindred spirits...and I am NOT sorry! I enjoyed you guys.

Dave

It was a complement, Dave. No excuses necessary. I thoroughly enjoyed the evening, and look forward to the next one. I am also looking forward to hearing your opinion of my system. Bring the gang, 'cause pool season is upon us!

Rick

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Dangit Arf !!

I am shocked no one local invited you to listen to tubes in your general area. Shame on ya all. Must be ashamed of your systems. Just seemed to be arguments/discussions as usual.

Come on down Arf, we're friendly here in Indy!!

HarryO

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In response to Parrot's message on 4/1 about auditory memory testing:

I remember choir auditions when I was played a series of non-melodic notes which I was expected to repeat. Start with one, and go to incrementally more notes. He plays, I sing. One college choir director took me to nine. Nine was enough for him, I guess.

I have no opinion on the previous posts here.

SSH

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