WAY OT: Help me, I need advice on helping a friend

[Coytee]

Ok guys this is WAY off topic and long so for those who read and care to opine, I appreciate you wading through this. I put it here simply because this forum gets the most eyes (evidently) Amy... feel free to move if you don't like it here. I just hope you don't delete it becuase I am indeed looking for some advice from others.

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First, a bit of history:

Ive been in the brokerage business for 20 years now and my business partner for almost 30 years. Hes trying to bring his 27 year old son into the business. His son went to <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Rutgers and has some kind of acting degree. Hes even spent a semester over in London working and schooling at the same time at the Shakespeare Theater. His son is on the latter stages of finishing up a volunteer rehab visit. He evidently is too attracted to the bubbly stuff and saw himself sinking so cried out for help. We all applaud that. The son has already left working with us for 6 months to pursue something else and didnt like it so hes back. If I had to guess Id say the son doesnt REALLY like what we do and is simply trying to please his father (who is a VERY imposing kinda guy but loves his kids to DEATH and would do ANYTHING to help them find their happiness)

We put on seminars every now & then. Dinner seminars where we buy participants dinner after we put on a show. Its a method for us to meet people and them meet us in a casual kinda way. Truth be told, probably 90% of them are ONLY there for the free meal and dont give a squat about us or our information. My partner and I are the ones that usually speak at these although in effort to mentor his son, hes let his son start to speak during part of it. Probably important to know that our company (my partner ultimately) is funding the seminars up front banking on the come.

Ok heres the crux the son SUCKS at public speaking. Its not that hes a bad public speaker but what he does is utilize his acting skills (and there is evidently a reason hes not currently in Hollywood) during his presentation.

This past week we had our 4^th night. My partners wife ended up in the emergency room that day so the son and I put the seminar on ourselves.

Hes 27 years old but you would think a 12 year old was talking. I can not describe here his antics nor immature ways. He clearly thinks hes being engaging with the crowd. I wont even get into his interrupting his father speaking (prior seminar) so he could show the crowd a slide on the screen that we passed 10 minutes PRIOR.

Heres the deal weve probably spent over $60,000 this year on marketing these seminars. When the son has been with us (most of the time) weve gotten a whopping 5 or 6 appointments.

The other day when just the son & I did it, we got 90% of the crowd making appointments. During the process of setting appointments, one of the attendees TOLD me she was sorry for me and that I had to be up there with someone who acted so childish. My wife was in the crowd and said she heard other people laughing at him while he spoke. The REAL sad part is, if he perchance heard any laughs, he probably took it as a positive instead of them laughing at him.

How freaking bad must it be for a guest to make a comment to me about how bad he was? Part of me thinks that was rude as heck of her, HOWEVER, in reality, she WAS right and there was nothing I could say other than hes my partners son and my partner is trying to bring him into the business while he mentors him in other words, I dont have a say about this.

We ALL want the son to get better and succeedhowever, having blown over 60K for essentially NOTHING (very few new accounts) and so far, NO signs of the son even progressing in his stage presence its finally coming to a point where I feel I MUST say something.

So, how would you want your friend to bring to your attention that your son who is the apple of your life, really sucks onstage and is actually a detriment to your WHOLE point of BEING on stage?

Ive tried in the past to suggest to my partner we should split the seminar up. We EACH can speak the entire night on separate nights, this way, if I get 15 appointments, they wont be scared away by a buffoon up there. If HE gets zero appointments, then we can start to see where the problem is. So far, my partner has been no go on that logic.

I am certainly NOT saying Im Mr. Perfect but we clearly have a problem here and I just dont know how to pop the bubble.

The fact that we had 21 out of 24 people make an appointment to visit us tells me that I basically saved the night. What it is telling my partner and his son is that we knocked them dead with our fantastic presentation and sadly, that couldnt be further from the truth.

Every time we do one of these things, I honestly spend the entire night with a big CRINGE on my back, just waiting to see HOW hes going to open his mouth and screw things up.

Ive told the wife one thing well do is have our own seminar, this way we can be 100% in charge of what happens and if I flunk out then so be it its all my fault. I just hate flunking out when I see a clown up there talking, representing me and my company.

So, your son is the apple of your eye and both of you cant see that he sucks on presentations how would you want someone who cares about both of you, to tell you?

Or, would you even want to know? Would you want to know if YOU were the one spending (burning) $60,000?? Heck wed all been better off had that 60K been split 3 ways and we each burned ½ of our money, over what we did.

Ok getting too long, sorry. Its just impossible to really convey what a moron the son looks like when hes speaking.

This might help he was putting on a church play and was a pirate. He shaved his head, grew a scruffy beard and had some makeup on that was evidently near impossible to get off. What happened? We had a seminar during this and he looked like one of those Goth people, except he was bald.

It really looked bad

My advice would have been to just go away during the seminar and do your play if its so important to you. If on the other hand WORK is more important to you, then dont shave your head and look like a skull & crossbones guy.

Ok, Ill shut up.

Im just looking for some help & advice on how to help a friend and indirectly, myself.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Beginning of the end. This is probably just the beginning. If the kid doesn't fall off the wagon you will eventually be partners with him.

You need to read your operating agreement (or bylaws if you are a corporation) regarding how to split the business. Start keeping detailed records of sales, expenses and accounts. Start thinking about what is valuable to you (trade name, phone numbers, etc). I have had partners figth to the end for phone numbers and trade names. If you can set up a second business number now that predominately goes to you that would be helpful. A DBA can also help if you can start to attach it to yourself. Make sure that you advertise using both names "Guido's loans, The Itialian Mofia Loan Experts." That way it is easy to split the names. If you need to split in a few years you will also have a number and name with goodwill attached to it. It will make a potential split much less painful.

Even if you do not split up the above will not hurt if you keep it to yourself. Hate to be doom and glood but hope for the best and prep for the worst.

As for the immediate situation, try taping your presentations and have the attendees fill out comment cards. You will have documention of his antics. You also really need to continue to push to do some separate presentations if possible.

[Duke Spinner]

you ...

are missing the big point , here ...

you've spent $60k ... to No return ....

if somethings not working ... change it

i'd sure look to other methods of Marketing....[*-)]

i don't know who/how your inviting/selecting ..

but it'd have ta bee a dam fancy meal

to get me to sit there for a sales presentation ....[]

[Travis In Austin]

Beginning of the end. This is probably just the beginning. If the kid doesn't fall off the wagon you will eventually be partners with him.

You need to read your operating agreement (or bylaws if you are a corporation) regarding how to split the business. Start keeping detailed records of sales, expenses and accounts. Start thinking about what is valuable to you (trade name, phone numbers, etc). I have had partners figth to the end for phone numbers and trade names. If you can set up a second business number now that predominately goes to you that would be helpful. A DBA can also help if you can start to attach it to yourself. Make sure that you advertise using both names "Guido's loans, The Itialian Mofia Loan Experts." That way it is easy to split the names. If you need to split in a few years you will also have a number and name with goodwill attached to it. It will make a potential split much less painful.

Even if you do not split up the above will not hurt if you keep it to yourself. Hate to be doom and glood but hope for the best and prep for the worst.

As for the immediate situation, try taping your presentations and have the attendees fill out comment cards. You will have documention of his antics. You also really need to continue to push to do some separate presentations if possible.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa,

hang on a second, lets not get too far ahead of ourselves here. Before you start splitting up assets or enforcing buy/sell agreements, there is obviously some reason the two of you managed to stay in business so long, and some kind of synergy created by the two of you being partners. You would have split long ago if if was not a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Tigerwood does have an excellent suggestion about the comment cards, make sure they ask the same questions for each of you, and have a space for comments. To get 100% feedback offer a door price to those who turn them in. Make it optional for them to identify themselves, you give them a drawing ticket when they turn in their feed back card. That way they don't think they are going to be solicited with stuff if they turn in the comment card.

The videotape idea is good, not for documentation, but to try and help the kid, just as the comment cards are. If he sees what a goofball he is he just might become self-aware of the situation and try and make corrections on his own. You could try and send him to a Carnage course.

There is no doubt that it is a difficult situation, but the truth of the matter is that your partner is not going to want to keep losing money, or opportunities, as I assume both of you need to continue to earn an income. There are some situations where a parent just cannot see the shortcommings of a child and will stay with the child all the way to doom. That is for sure to be avoided and you want to get off of any ship that starts sinking. However, I have seen a lot of young attorneys who were rough around the edges, with the right mentor, training, encourgement become very fine trial lawyers. I have also seen a couple that were so goofy there was just no hope and they eventually went off and did other things. I would think the sales figures are going to be the most important. I assume that you figure that you will get X percent that are going to want an appointment after a dinner, and out of those X percent will want to do business.

You only got 5 or 6 appointments with the 3 of you speaking, yet you got 90% to sign for appointments when it was just you and the kid. Is that because you shortened his part of the talk when it was just the two of you? What do you atribute that to?

I would for sure come up with comment cards, and that is an easy sale to get on with your partner.

Travis

[colterphoto1]

IU School of Business axiom (and this was POUNDED INTO MY HEAD my entire Senior year)

'you will rue the day you form a partnership'

That day has come. Speak frankly to your partner and express your displeasure with the new man's (try to to refer him to his 'son') performance. Expect emotions to get in the way. Expect your partner to defend his son. Imagine if you were in his place. Speak as kindly yet truthfully as you can. Be prepared to back up your suppositions with good numerical data.

Perhaps expect to dissolve the partnership so he can go fail with his son if he wishes. Just know that you don't have to.

Michael

[Coytee]

you ...are missing the big point , here ...you've spent $60k ... to No return ....if somethings not working ... change it

i'd sure look to other methods of Marketing....[*-)]

i don't know who/how your inviting/selecting ..

but it'd have ta bee a dam fancy meal

to get me to sit there for a sales presentation ....[]

First, welcome back Duke!!

Second, if you read everything, I AM making some plans to change it

Third...you are missing the point so for anyone who might respond...PLEASE stick to my question... what and how might you bring this up to your partner?

Other methods of marketing are irrelevant to this matter right now.

It happens to be at one of the nicer places to eat here in town and 'plate lickers' are simply part of the reality. It's a numbers game to reach people that are there for honest reasons.

The issue from my point of view is, we're putting on the seminars, we have decades of experience and he (my partner) is giving zero guidance to our third member who in my opinion (and my wifes and this lady at the last show) is a HIGHLY unprofessional presenter of our program. He's not trying to be a malicious buffoon at all... he simply isn't cut out for this (in my opinion) and it painfully shows. As my wife says, "he doesn't get it".

So, please... if you care to respond to question of do and how do I maybe tell my partner to open his freaking eyes to the buffoon we have when his son is speaking, please do so. If you want to suggest other paths, realize they are being looked at and you can spare your fingers from typing.

I didn't type the entire book above to look for answers that didn't pertain to the question.

My partner wants his son to grow & suceed. I too want that. I saw this at the very first (about 2 years ago) and simply figured we'd all have growing pains as we "got with the program". Unfortunately, the son has yet to figure out how to achieve that and all I want to do is see if there are any opinions as to how this subject might be brought up. I also thought my partner might pull the son aside (and perhaps he has without me knowing) and try to give him some constructive criticisim. I have finally started doing that myself. Each time I've done it, "those issues" that I brought up with him have been pretty well dealt with only for him to find a new, creative way that I didn't think of, to make himself look like a dolt.

My partner has been talking, giving out some info, only to have the son (who was prior, walking around behind 'dad' being a major visual distraction to others in the room as he sort of paced back/forth) anyway... then the son stops and just blurted out to the crowd (trying to make a point)

"ok... who here wants to volunteer to stand up and open your wallet, telling us everything that is in it, credit card numbers, balances, bank balances, portfolio balances and who you're going to give it to when you die?????"

As his father who was speaking at the podium turned around and allowed the son to have the spotlight for the moment...

I was too busy sinking in my chair thinking how on freaking earth, can he not realize that it's unfathomable to interrupt the key speaker to bring up a point that the key speaker WAS otherwise going to be making... (who here wants to share their info?? no one does and that's why you might want to look into a trust verses a traditional will for some of your estate issues)

he completely chopped up the flow of the presentation, chopped up who was speaking and really needed to just shut his mouth and sit down.

Let me put it this way...

How many retirees might want to open their financial world to a 27 year old who's brand new in the business AND in process of going through re-hab who has shaved his head and looks like a follower of Manson? There is no way that they're going to relate with him. Heck... I'm just now feeling that I can start to relate with that crowd now that I've been at it for 20 years.

[oscarsear]

Why do you feel that this one seminar you and wonder boy did alone turned out so successful?  Statistically that level of response really stands out from the rest of your year.  How well did these seminars work prior to sonny boy coming on board?  

Unless your partner has a real need for a tax write-off or enjoys wasting time and money there's clear and rational need to re-assess this program.  That one seminar is a real confounding variable though.  You may see it one way, junior another and juniors daddy will no doubt agree with what ever makes junior look the best.  If dad is adamant about the kid you may as well start preparing to bail.  

[oscarsear]

I'll reply again as you posted during my last input.  There is NO good way to criticize your partners son.  Especially in light of this one seminar. Your partner wasn't there.  He's just looking at the numbers and by golly they shine.  He's probably on another forum asking them how to tell you that his son is saving the company from your dull speaking abilities.  Each and everytime I have been in a company where relatives became involved it was a disaster.  

[klipschguy101]

I'm in charge of seminars in my line of work (lawyer) so I feel your pain. Maybe this will sound cowardly coming from a trial lawyer, but I've
often found that it is best to avoid direct
confrontation unless necessary. Better to manipulate where possible.

I like the idea of comment cards. Stress anonymity, which will promote honesty. Your ROI for the seminars has to be a part of your marketing plan, I would guess. If he is an active part of the marketing, he should be privy to the bottom line, too. Bring him in for that part of the meetings, and discuss the costs, along with the responses in the comment cards. Have him face the music as you have had to.

You could also suggest that his compensation in part be contingent on the return from such marketing. My guess is he will react better to such an "opportunity" than he will to a "come to Jesus" speech which might jeopardize an otherwise prosperous partnership.

And one more thing, the ROI of 90% you reported on your last effort sounds remarkable. Not in my best day could I hope for such a return. How does that rank among your seminars before him? If its higher, you might just have to accept that what he and you do together works. Maybe you have found a role as the straight man, a la Burns and Allen.

[dtel]

When reading the story it really stuck out that when it was you and his son, 90% signed up ? Something happened for the good, and from what you are saying it can't be the kid ? If at all possible, try to get a presentation with just you and see what the results are, and let the father do one with the kid ?

It would be hard to belive the goofball gave you the higher numbers, if so go with the goofball.?

[Coytee]

Why do you feel that this one seminar you and wonder boy did alone turned out so successful? Statistically that level of response really stands out from the rest of your year. How well did these seminars work prior to sonny boy coming on board?

Interesting question and one I asked myself. To be accurate, I'm not SURE we hit that level of response. When seminar is over, we (losely speaking) see if anyone is interested in sitting down and talking about any of their concerns with us.

I went through 1/2 the crowd and he went through the other half. Most of the people I spoke to set a 'date' to come into the office. As I looked at his responses (on a 'evaluation form' we always take back) MOST of his were "call me in 2 weeks" which is in reality, the kiss of death for that person and they just don't want to say no.

Once I noticed that, I discounted those, but then as a side bar, I knew there was a lady in there who has seen us before AND been in to the office to visit with me. She never did anything 'then' but has brought a friend with her and from what I understand, was championing me at her table telling everyone how helpful I was to her and non pressuring. people at that table with her were the ones who for various reasons can't set a date "today".

Since I know she was there backing me up to strangers I've hoping on putting more faith into their honesty. The truth though is we'd be doing ok of only half of them ACTUALLY follow through. Heck, I already know I can't help one of them, she needs an estate attorney!! but I counted her in the plus column because until I know more about her, there is always that chance we can do something for her.

My wife who stayed because I wanted a relatively unbiased opinion (and she'll tell me when I screw things up because if it affects me, it affects her!!)

I actually got embarrassed by her comments on how well she thought I did. I pleaded with her to stop the bs but she assured me I knew she knows it would be very counterproductive to do that.

She said there was a circuis like atmoshpere when he was speaking. Oh... I only let him speak the same part his father lets him do. I didn't want him to take on any more. This was a time where less is more !!

So, the wife says it was like a circuis when he was speaking and when I got back up there, that a quiet calm over took the crowd & room. It evidently in her opinion, was clear that I had better control of the situation.

she gushed SO much, I still discount what she said by 35% lol.

We're already making some plans to do our own seminar (and she'll help sign people in but not speak). This way if something happens I'll get the benefit and if I flunk out, then it's all on me.

I just want to see if I can somehow try to help my partners son. It's in my nature.

[Duke Spinner]

Unless your partner has a real need for a tax write-off or enjoys wasting time and money there's clear and rational need to re-assess this program..

My ..Point exactly

that's a pretty miserable rate of return ...

[Duke Spinner]

Unless your partner has a real need for a tax write-off or enjoys wasting time and money there's clear and rational need to re-assess this program..

My ..Point exactly

that's a pretty miserable rate of return ...

[colterphoto1]

Is there any 'behind the scenes' role the son can fill while he's learning about the business and maturing? Embarassing as the few incidents are, they are hardly grounds for dismissal. Perhaps the son just needs to learn more about the business. When you and your partner started business together decades ago, could either of you successfully hold the type of seminar that you do today?

What type have you and your partner had regarding his son's involvement in the business? If he left and came back after several months, there should have been serious interview process or at the very least a meeting between the two partners about what sonny-boy's role would be and what would be expected of him. If there wasn't, now would sure be the time before damage control has to be done.

[Travis In Austin]

I'll reply again as you posted during my last input. There is NO good way to criticize your partners son. Especially in light of this one seminar. Your partner wasn't there. He's just looking at the numbers and by golly they shine. He's probably on another forum asking them how to tell you that his son is saving the company from your dull speaking abilities. Each and everytime I have been in a company where relatives became involved it was a disaster.

Oscar,

I asked the same question you did, what does Coytee atribute the 90% response to when it was just him and the kid. I don't know about you, but from what I remember from sales and marketing that is an unheard of response rate. If it were me I would try and keep the Dad at home and bring the kid with me where ever I went. If he just had the effect of making my pitch better, or that I brought my best game becase of him, that is good enough for me. Are you saying you wouuld have had 100% without the kid?

Coytee, to answer your question, with comment cards you don't have to tell the Dad. They are going to do that talking. You need a set from one, possibly two dinners. Offer the door prize out of your own pocket if you have to (make it somethng that has no affiliation with you, $25.00 gift card to Bestbuy, whatever), make it clear that it is confiential, they don't have to put any info on it, they will not be contacted,but they are very important to you so that they can make sure these presentations are as beneficial to them as possible.

You provide these commennts to your partner AND his son. You do not have to tell him anything, he will either get it, if he does not, you say I am concerned about what THESE people are saying about Sonny Boy. THESE people say that he is a goof ball, THESE PEOPLE say he is a turn off, THESE PEOPLE say that they were not did not want to trust their investments with anyone stupid enough to hire such an idiot.

Coytee, your are correct to be concerned with having to tell your partner that the son is just not working out. They did not create the addage "Dont shoot the messenger" for nothing. It is human nature to take your frustrations out of the person who points out the truth to you. The comment cards remove you from it in the sense that you are just pointing out that to the people who count, the client, it does not work. Without comment cards, it is just your personal opinion. You have nothing, other then your wife, and some unidentifiable potential client. In other words, it is your personal subjective comments. There is another old addage: Blood is thicker then water. The only way you get past it looking like you are the only one who has these thoughts, and it is just a problem with perception on your part, is to get a bunch of comment cards.

I make my living in public speaking, to groups of 6 or 12 at a time, and you hear a lot of surprising things when you ask for feedback. Be prepared for that as well.

Travis

[colterphoto1]

Good points Travis, the 'impartial third party' would be handy here.

[J M O N]

I haven't read all of the comments, but I'll offer a couple points.

1. This line of work is obviously not what the son enjoys and wants to do. He's probably only doing it as he has not other options at the moment. If the son isn't interested in this type of work, he is never going to be succesful at it and he needs to find something else for his own good (as well as your's and your partner's). He needs to find something else that he enjoys doing, which will make it more likely that he'll be successful. This is the point that you should somehow try to point out to your partner. How to do this tactfully -- I'm not sure what to suggest.

2. You might want to try video taping the presentations. Then, when your partner and his son see it later, they may realize how foolish he is. It's hard for people to notice those kind of things when they're in the process of doing it, but when they see it from the perspectives of others, as would be seen from a video, it can be quite shocking. Maybe then your partner and his son will realize a change is needed.

[Travis In Austin]

Coytee,

Several of the responses you got came in while I was typing my last response to your question, along with your response about the 90% thing. You say that you have evaluation forms where they can enter a date they want to come in and on the kid they say "a couple of weeks"? Is there sections on this evaluation already that rates the presenters and ask for comments on the quality of presentation of each presenter? Maybe you already have the info you need to tell your partner, I don't know. If the questionaire is annon. they won't hold back about hurthing anyone's feelings and it is only those type of responses that are going to be of any help to you. The way the questons are phrased is important. Please rate each presenter is terms of the following:

Mr. Coytee

Overall Presentation 1 Waste of my time 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Excellent, very informative

Topics Covered

what ever else you want to know

What did you like best about Mr. Coytee's presentation?__________________________________

What did you like least about Mr. Coytee's presentation?__________________________________

What suggestions or comments do you have that would make Mr. Coytee's presentation useful?

As a last thing, you cannot rely on a family member, expecially a spouse, to be objective about anything. They just cannot remove themselves from being supportive of their spouse. More importantly, their opinion does not matter, the spouse could think that you, or your partner are the worst presenters on the face of the planet, but if you keep geting clients from this process does it really matter what she thinks? I understand that you were trying to make sure it was not just you, but you would have gotten more information unbiased information from a waiter. Likewise if she thinks you are the best presenter she has ever seen, could sell ice to Eskimos, etc., but you don't get one lead, does it really matter.

Your talking to your partner without comments from the prospective clients will fall on deaf ears and be seen as overly critical of the son. Your wife's comments won't add anything since that would be what he would expect her to say, and the comments from the lady are coming from you as well. I deal with parents, almost daily, who believe their child can do no wrong. I know how difficult it can be to show them there is a problem (drugs, alcohol, attitude, etc.). The only way you can get around this is with facts. When it comes to trying to gather "facts" when it comes to something subjective like judging a presentation, I think all that matters is what the people you are trying to sign up think. These comments are "facts" that your partner, and his son, will have to address. Anything else, like what you think, your wife thinks, a current client thinks, the waitress thinks, the bartender, the cook, etc. is all opinion. Someone who has a warped sense of reality, like that their son is a great at presentations, is not going to be swayed by opinion. On the other hand, if they both see that 90% of those folks who return responses that rate him as 1, 1, and 1, and have comments like "find a new line of work " and have you and your partner at 9,9,9 with comments like "you and Mr. Father are great, but lose that goof ball kid", Dad and sonny-boy are going to have to deal with it. Best off, its not coming from you, and you told your partner without bringing emotion into it.

Travis

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Beginning of the end. This is probably just the beginning. If the kid doesn't fall off the wagon you will eventually be partners with him.

You need to read your operating agreement (or bylaws if you are a corporation) regarding how to split the business. Start keeping detailed records of sales, expenses and accounts. Start thinking about what is valuable to you (trade name, phone numbers, etc). I have had partners figth to the end for phone numbers and trade names. If you can set up a second business number now that predominately goes to you that would be helpful. A DBA can also help if you can start to attach it to yourself. Make sure that you advertise using both names "Guido's loans, The Itialian Mofia Loan Experts." That way it is easy to split the names. If you need to split in a few years you will also have a number and name with goodwill attached to it. It will make a potential split much less painful.

Even if you do not split up the above will not hurt if you keep it to yourself. Hate to be doom and glood but hope for the best and prep for the worst.

As for the immediate situation, try taping your presentations and have the attendees fill out comment cards. You will have documention of his antics. You also really need to continue to push to do some separate presentations if possible.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa,

hang on a second, lets not get too far ahead of ourselves here. Before you start splitting up assets or enforcing buy/sell agreements, there is obviously some reason the two of you managed to stay in business so long, and some kind of synergy created by the two of you being partners. You would have split long ago if if was not a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Tigerwood does have an excellent suggestion about the comment cards, make sure they ask the same questions for each of you, and have a space for comments. To get 100% feedback offer a door price to those who turn them in. Make it optional for them to identify themselves, you give them a drawing ticket when they turn in their feed back card. That way they don't think they are going to be solicited with stuff if they turn in the comment card.

The videotape idea is good, not for documentation, but to try and help the kid, just as the comment cards are. If he sees what a goofball he is he just might become self-aware of the situation and try and make corrections on his own. You could try and send him to a Carnage course.

There is no doubt that it is a difficult situation, but the truth of the matter is that your partner is not going to want to keep losing money, or opportunities, as I assume both of you need to continue to earn an income. There are some situations where a parent just cannot see the shortcommings of a child and will stay with the child all the way to doom. That is for sure to be avoided and you want to get off of any ship that starts sinking. However, I have seen a lot of young attorneys who were rough around the edges, with the right mentor, training, encourgement become very fine trial lawyers. I have also seen a couple that were so goofy there was just no hope and they eventually went off and did other things. I would think the sales figures are going to be the most important. I assume that you figure that you will get X percent that are going to want an appointment after a dinner, and out of those X percent will want to do business.

You only got 5 or 6 appointments with the 3 of you speaking, yet you got 90% to sign for appointments when it was just you and the kid. Is that because you shortened his part of the talk when it was just the two of you? What do you atribute that to?

I would for sure come up with comment cards, and that is an easy sale to get on with your partner.

Travis

I didn't say to cal it quits and split everything up. I said to prepare to split everything up just in case. If it happens a few years down the road it will be much easier to divide the goodwill, which is usually teh most valuable asset.

[Guest " "]

As a former Regional (six state area) Master Sales trainer, I recommend that the "Son" join toastmasters. Let Toastmasters be the bad guy and tell the "Son" he Su_ks at public speaking while they help him get focussed.