Just ordered a Trends 10.1 Class T Digital Amp - A whopping $130

[Erik Mandaville]

" Unfortunately its my wife's TV night and she has all her stupid shows she needs to watch."

Well, we all have to have our escape. Headphones come in situations like that, and that's where I run when 'All My Children' pops up. It's pretty easy to make a little box that can take the outputs of an amp for use with headphones.

Erik

[Colin]

Of course, the light little amplifiers are not wonderful for all things. I tried using the Sonic, Red Wine digital amplifiers and a 70's vintage Harmon Kardon 330B (reknown for its excellent sound) receiver to drive my Khorn bass bins, but nothing delivered the goods like my 48-pound, class A , solid-state vintage Pioneer M-22. It had as much control as the Nelson Pass X250 monster, except of course, without as much punch. The X250 doubles its wattage not just into 4-ohms, but into 2-ohms also!! So for me, the best of both world is driving my mid and high range horns with my Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour monoblocks (6-watts peak) and my bass bins with my Pioneer.

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Compared to $35 Sonic Impact 5066 Class T digital tripath chip amplifier, the Red Wine is better not ten better sound (just times the price), but better definition overall, and better bass control. I have the Trends sitting here and need to play with it some more .

[kaiser SET say]

You got my wheels turning Paul, I'm thinking a set of these with something like an Audio-Note M-Zero might just be the ticket for my LaScalla's and just the look on some listeners faces will be price-less when you tell them that those ity bity boxes are driving these big old speakers[]

This http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1180386415 would be cute with the Trends on top[] Or possible a Blue Circle BC-21 pre[] maybe even a JM Merlin[] I can see myself getting in to deep kimchee already[:'(]

[Cut-Throat]

Of course, the light little amplifiers are not wonderful for all things. I tried using the Sonic, Red Wine digital amplifiers and a 70's vintage Harmon Kardon 330B (reknown for its excellent sound) receiver to drive my Khorn bass bins, but nothing delivered the goods like my 48-pound, class A , solid-state vintage Pioneer M-22. It had as much control as the Nelson Pass X250 monster, except of course, without as much punch. The X250 doubles its wattage not just into 4-ohms, but into 2-ohms also!! So for me, the best of both world is driving my mid and high range horns with my Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour monoblocks (6-watts peak) and my bass bins with my Pioneer.

Compared to $35 Sonic Impact 5066 Class T digital tripath chip amplifier, the Red Wine is better not ten better sound (just times the price), but better definition overall, and better bass control. I have the Trends sitting here and need to play with it some more .

I am thinking that the Trends amp may be great out on the deck with my Radio Shack Optimus speakers. Just for some Jimmy Buffet Margaritaville stuff! - I am not planning on replacing my SET amps anytime soon!

[Deang]

The Trends sure doesn't have much in the way of ps filtration. The Super-T has astounding bass, and there's not a hint of grit or glare in the highs.

The shootout didn't include the Winsome Labs Mouse, which is a real shame.

[Cut-Throat]

I am sure that there will many flavors of these type of amps coming down the pike in the next few years. But, I thought I'd order a cheapie just to see what the hype was all about.

Actually, I had a highly toted $2500 Bel Canto Digital amp in my home a few years ago. It was not nearly as good as my Hybrid tube Van Alstine gear, but if it was only $130 I would have been floored!

So, I view this as a toy.

- I did manage to sell my Solid Scrape Monarchy Amps this week, so that audition only cost me $150 - This digital amp audition will be cheaper than that and I get to keep it!

[Marvel]

Even the LP could change. I can envision a scanner or HD camera simply grabbing a very high resolution of a record, then processing it through an algorithim to "play" it. Nothing theoretically unsound about the idea...

Dave

I came across some guy a couple of years ago who actually used a photo copy or scanned and printed output of an lp, then read the info off the printout and turned it back into music. Sounded like do-do, but it did actually work. Lots of hiss and other noise. I never kept track of the project, to see if he improved it in any way.

Bruce

[meagain]

.

[meagain]

It has a blue light?!!!! Nice.

Cut-Throat - what is the wire in the pic going to the right. 2 lines. And, what are the odd looking gadgets on the floor with the handles?

Signed: Blue light freek

[Cut-Throat]

It has a blue light?!!!! Nice.

Cut-Throat - what is the wire in the pic going to the right. 2 lines. And, what are the odd looking gadgets on the floor with the handles?

Signed: Blue light freek

Well, there is a lot of gear there and I'm not completely sure what the 2 lines are going to. But if that is a pre-amp in the middle, it could be the interconnects for a CD player or turntable. It really shows you how ridiculous garden hose sized interconnects or power cords are!

But, the gadgets on the floor are the battery power units. DC power is supposed to be a bit cleaner than A/C and these digital amps are supposed to 'really shine' with battery power. I know that Welborne Labs is currently selling a pre-amp with battery power as well.

[Cody_Mack]

Pauln,

Oh my.....you are going to purchase something....(gasp)....digital?

Rick

[pauln]

Pauln,

Oh my.....you are going to purchase something....(gasp)....digital?

Rick

Hey Rick, how are you doing? Im still waiting delivery of a couple of sealed new records I ordered in Feb next listening session Id like to bring them over for a first play on your gear.

Too late, the thing is already on the way, but not to worry; while the internals of the chip are digital the signal path and processing are not digital.

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The D in class D amps does not mean digital; it was just the next letter in the alphabet. The class D amps are analog all the way through the signal path. At no time is the signal encoded as binary or quantisized as in CDs (pulse code modulation), and no A/D or D/A converters are used. These amps are actually analog 1-bit single ended.

I can see why DIY folks are playing with these little things.

Their principle of operation is pretty simple.

First, the amps internally generate a triangle wave voltage with a constant frequency way up around 400,000KHz. The amp then simply switches between two levels of output voltage (like ground and 10 volts, I don't know the real value, but notice this is single ended operation) whenever the sign (+ or -) of the difference between the triangle and input voltages reverse sign (triangle minus input). All that remains is to rescale the output so its no-input signal average is centered on zero volts instead of 5 volts and low pass filter the output so only the baseband audio is passed. Thats pretty much all of it.

The output with no input signal present is a square wave of 400,000Hz that averages to what in a single ended triode would be the plate voltage at the bias current with no input. In preparing to present the voltage to the speaker this value is subtracted from the output voltage to get it centered on zero so the output has the familiar pos and neg swings - like as happens in the primary to secondary windings in the SE output transformer. Any input signal voltage modulates the width of the square waves, the output voltage (high speed two level switching) averages out to a single value, and the overall waveform of the output matches that of the original input.

The amps gain is in proportion to the magnitude of difference between the outputs two switching voltage levels. The input sensitivity is similarly related to the relative amplitude of the triangle wave to the input signal. The distortion is related to the fidelity to which the averaging of the output reproduces the input which is based on the frequency of the triangle wave and the level of gain.

The only thing that seems to bother some folks is the blue light - descibed as laser like bright - I notice some of the pictures show some of that.

[Cody_Mack]

Pauln,

Oh my.....you are going to purchase something....(gasp)....digital?

Rick

Hey Rick, how are you doing? Im still waiting delivery of a couple of sealed new records I ordered in Feb next listening session Id like to bring them over for a first play on your gear.

Too late, the thing is already on the way, but not to worry; while the internals of the chip are digital the signal path and processing are not digital.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

The D in class D amps does not mean digital; it was just the next letter in the alphabet. The class D amps are analog all the way through the signal path. At no time is the signal encoded as binary or quantisized as in CDs (pulse code modulation), and no A/D or D/A converters are used. These amps are actually analog 1-bit single ended.

I can see why DIY folks are playing with these little things.

Their principle of operation is pretty simple.

First, the amps internally generate a triangle wave voltage with a constant frequency way up around 400,000KHz. The amp then simply switches between two levels of output voltage (like ground and 10 volts, I don't know the real value, but notice this is single ended operation) whenever the sign (+ or -) of the difference between the triangle and input voltages reverse sign (triangle minus input). All that remains is to rescale the output so its no-input signal average is centered on zero volts instead of 5 volts and low pass filter the output so only the baseband audio is passed. Thats pretty much all of it.

The output with no input signal present is a square wave of 400,000Hz that averages to what in a single ended triode would be the plate voltage at the bias current with no input. In preparing to present the voltage to the speaker this value is subtracted from the output voltage to get it centered on zero so the output has the familiar pos and neg swings - like as happens in the primary to secondary windings in the SE output transformer. Any input signal voltage modulates the width of the square waves, the output voltage (high speed two level switching) averages out to a single value, and the overall waveform of the output matches that of the original input.

The amps gain is in proportion to the magnitude of difference between the outputs two switching voltage levels. The input sensitivity is similarly related to the relative amplitude of the triangle wave to the input signal. The distortion is related to the fidelity to which the averaging of the output reproduces the input which is based on the frequency of the triangle wave and the level of gain.

The only thing that seems to bother some folks is the blue light - descibed as laser like bright - I notice some of the pictures show some of that.

Thanks Paul, all of that went right over my head, right after you said, "Their principle of operation is pretty simple."

Wonder how one of these Class D amps would do for low frequencies, to drive a passive sub, for instance. You may want more power, of course, depending on the driver efficiency. Would this type amp have the control and range to dig low and produce accurate bass? The price is certainly right.

The blue light? Well, I think that will be a purchasing factor for some folks; like those who have those 'cool' blue lights mounted in strategic locations on their cars for no apparent reason.

Rick

[pete almquist]

i know i'm demonstrating my ignorance of all things electronic but what are these little amps good for. i have an ss component system and would love to have a low cost alternative to play with hooked to the khorns. also a lack of space comes into play in my music/library/computer/office room. thanks for the info!!

pete

[Vahorns]

I have a pair of Cornwalls that are currently hooked up to a Muscial Concepts modified Hafler D200 power amp and a modifed Adcom GTP-400 preamp/tuner.

The Hafler tested at about 155 watts/RMS at a recent clinical testing, and has new caps.

How would the Trends compare in sound quality to my current amp-preamp setup?

I am of the mind to order a Trends, but I'd like to have a better idea how this amp will perform driving Cornwalls.

Any info. about comparatives is appreciated.

[arthurs]

Hi guys, I hosted the amp shootout at my place and was the "roadie" who determined the shootout method, switched all the gear as we went and did all the writing for the article. I had the luxury of having all the amps in my place for a couple of weeks prior and the Trends is a sweet little performer. A couple guys I know have the Michael Mardis modded version and have said it is a step way up from the stock, just more of everything...that's second hand so insert grain of salt here....the speakers from the shootout are 91db efficient line arrays, so I think you'd get some more out of them driving horns than we heard, but peaks of 80ish were the best it could get on my speakers....very balanced sound and really incredible tonality with it....I got one just because it sounded so sweet...now to find some horns for a second system with it....

[Cut-Throat]

I have a pair of Cornwalls that are currently hooked up to a Muscial Concepts modified Hafler D200 power amp and a modifed Adcom GTP-400 preamp/tuner.

The Hafler tested at about 155 watts/RMS at a recent clinical testing, and has new caps.

How would the Trends compare in sound quality to my current amp-preamp setup?

I am of the mind to order a Trends, but I'd like to have a better idea how this amp will perform driving Cornwalls.

Any info. about comparatives is appreciated.

I got one also, just to try it. - For $130 it's not that big a deal. - Heck, if you bought one, you could probably turn around and sell it for $110. - Not too bad for an audition.

But, think of it this way. Even if it sounds half as good as the folks say, you could probably find a use for it!

[pauln]

On the DIY site with the 40 page Trends thread, one of the guys carried his TA10 over to compare with a big Krell amp just for fun. The Krell was obviously superior, but the guy's comments and comparisons are interesting. He concluded that on an overall sound quality/performance scale of 0-100 with the Krell=100, the little Trends TA10 merits 40. For reference, some of his other well known big iron amps he only gives a 35.

[emperor ming]

I am in audio heaven because of one of these, My Ah Njoe tjoeb, My Klipsch RB-81, and a slightly modified, and battery powered Trends TA10. It sounds awesome, I urge you to buy. If you dont already have a $1200 - $2000 Amp. It really is supreme, and for the money, you wont get better. Unless you buy another chipamp. It was on the weight of the David Kan review of the Trends, and the matchup with the Klipsch, that started me, onto Klipsch, for their high efficiency. I am astounded by their performance, i thought it was all hype. Or perhaps ive caught a balance with all my gear, alll i know is i listen with a smile on my face. It altogether sounds so musical. I forget its only 10 watts im listening too.

Ive owned £1500 of Audiolab 8000C/8000SX, triamped amplier setup, compared, that sounded cold clinical and dead. Let alone the sound, its peanuts. so much so, i may attempt to make a 100watt kit version. because the poor little chip, although runs them loud, cant handle constant driving techno, or rock. The Glory goes to Tripath, the makers of the chip amp, this has given high end performance for peanuts.

[Spongeworthy]

I'm going to order one to run an outdoor system. I just picked up a pair of AW-525s brand new from Craigslist and use with our existing DVD player downstairs. My total investment will be $230 for a sweet outdoor setup.[H]

I have played around with an equally inexpensive TEAC A-l700P and I like the sound of these chipamps. The low cost and small size are a big bonus.[]