How to upgrade a turntable?

[schwock5]

I saw a similar post recently with lots of responses, and thought I'd piggy-back / compliment it a little to the topic of someone getting into Vinyl.

I found an old Marantz Model 6300 on my mother's basement.

This isn't the actual unit, just a picture I found, but it's pretty close. I plugged it in and turned it on, seems to work, even came with the manual, but it's missing the White Headshell, and the cartridge / stylus that would have been with it. Other than that, everything's there, including the Marantz rubber thing that goes on the turntable, and the 45 adaptor. It's in pretty good shape, has all the feet, and the dust cover just has a few blemishes.

How does one go about replacing stuff like this, as far as compatibility and whatnot?

I found a website www.lpgear.com that has suggustions and parts, but i'm not really sure where to go from here.

I have the RF-7s as my mains, and I just hooked them into my mom's old Luxman M-117 200x2 amp.

I've played a few stereo Jazz CDs on my Denon 3910 thorugh my Denon 3805 reciever pre-outted to the Luxman. I have been amazed at the clarity and sounstage, as if I was sitting in the studio with thelonious monk! I could even hear them in the studio skatting and talking, to the point where the detail was almost distracting from the music! (straight no chaser CD)

I want to maybe start getting into vinyl, as I already have found lying around a few old Benny Goodman records, and the original Empire Strikes Back Vinyl i'd love to take for a whirl.

I also live next door to a Vinyl Shop.

on LPgear.com, this is what i've found so far, but any other sites / sources are also appreciated.

Headhsells http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=HEADSHELLS

I guess I could do the $50 one up top if that's the best they have.

For Cartridges, they have like 20 different companies, any recomendation would be appreciated.

The site says my model 6300 originally came with an Audio-Technica AT12XE phono cartridge and a Audio-Technica ATN12XE needle stylus..

So I was thinking either of these two

audio-technica AT120E/T phono cartridge (retail $109.00) they have it $70

audio-technica AT110E phono cartridge LC-OFC Improved (retail $99.00) they sell it for $60

but again, I relaly have no idea what to go for, or what price range i'll really notice any differences.

So with the headhsell and cartridge, that's only about $130 all together, since they say the cartridge comes with a stylus, unless you guys recomend a stylus as well, which they have 4,000 from 40 different companies again!

Any recomendations on what I need, what other things I may need, or anything at all would be greatly appreciated, as I am sort of in the dark here.

How does one go about putting all this together? Or does one just buy a new record player?

[oldenough]

Hi schwock, the Marantz 6300 was a pretty good T/T and still fetches reasonable prices, i am sure it will not disappoint you as a start into vinyl. The headshell will not be a problem they are quite abundant from various sources, i dont know how much the quality of headshells affect the sound but would assume as in most things audio the more you spend the better it will sound to you[] Either of the cartridges you mentioned are reasonable Budget units, i have the A/T 110E that i use often, and i have no complaints with it and have recommended it here on a couple of occasions. You might also consider Shures M97XE it may be a few dollars more but is an excellent cartridge,you can sometimes find it on-line for around $70 .Have fun..John

[Mallette]

My personal favorite cheap cart is the Stanton 681EEE. However, I've had good experiences with the higher end AT's as well. In low-cost new carts, I am a Grado fan...but many here don't care for them. As I always say about phonograph records...love'em or hate'em, they are still where most of the music from the past century is.

Keep us informed...

Dave

[oldenough]

Dave, i agree the 681EEE is a fine cartridge,it was the first decent cartridge that i purchased and with three spare stylus i will be using it for many years to come, around $130.

[schwock5]

Should I just go with whatever stylus comes with the cartridge, or upgrade that too?

[oldenough]

The cartridges so far recommended are complete with stylus.

[scott0527]

That turntable has an "S" shaped tonearm doesn't it? Careful with cartridge allignment. Most of the normal allignment gages work for straight tonearms but not so well for these "S" shaped tonearms. If you still have the 45 adapter that comes with this table, there is a built in allignment guage on it for setting the cartridge overhang. Instructions should be in the manual.

[schwock5]

I believe it is an S-shaped tone arm, there are also about 5 different pegs on the end of it with spinning rings i'm guessing for weights that I don't have the foggiest idea how to set. I'll look through the manual tonight.

[oldenough]

Hey Schwock once you've assured yourself that all is ok with the T/T i will happily send you a decent cartridge and headshell that would get you started. Now it wont be a world beater, but it sure wont be anything to disgrace that turntable. I'll check out some of my "stock" tonite, if you think this may interest you shoot me a pm with your address and i'll get it in the mail ASAP....John

[whell]

That turntable has an "S" shaped tonearm doesn't it? Careful with cartridge allignment. Most of the normal allignment gages work for straight tonearms but not so well for these "S" shaped tonearms. If you still have the 45 adapter that comes with this table, there is a built in allignment guage on it for setting the cartridge overhang. Instructions should be in the manual.

Many of the "S" shaped tonearms where based on the Stevenson alignment method. You can download a free alignment protractor that should get you in the ballpark of correctly aligning your cartridge on the Marantz. Click on the link below, and scroll down the page to find the Stevenson alignment gauge.

http://www.vinylengine.com/manuals_tonearm_protractors.shtml

[oldenough]

Thanks for the PM Schwock, i have put a cartridge/stylus and headshell in the mail to you, and have included a spare unit, As i said these are not great but they will get you started until you find the need to upgrade (bound to happen). On the other hand if vinyl is'nt for you then you wont have invested $$$. Have fun, dont worry too much about the intracacies of setting up, get it as close as you can, and sit back and enjoy. There is something very pleasing about spinning vinyl, and it not just the music. Well yeah of course it is about the music, i think the other vinyl lovers here understand what i'm trying to say (maybe). remember clean them before you play them...

[garymd]

One thing to keep in mind as you get the table set up and start playing LPs:

Chances are those old Benny Goodman LPs will sound like crap. Maybe not, but probably. Go next door and ask for a cheap LP that sounds great. For not much more than a buck you should be able to find one of those 80s Windham Hill jazz LPs that maybe won't be your cup of tea (not mine anyway), but will give you an idea what a well recorded album will sound like on your new table. You'll find a HUGE variance in sound quality among vinyl. Also, make sure to clean the LP first if it's really dirty. A new sponge and the kitchen sink works well enough for starters.

Good luck!.

[Mallette]

Gary:

I certainly agree with your comments in general...there is gold and garbage in LP's just like everything audio...but I see little correlation between age and quality.

Perhaps you know something about the specific releases of the BG albums? If not, no assumptions are possible as age has nothing to do with recording quality. I have some BG and other 10" LP's from the early '50's that sound awesome. My favorite BG is a 12" 78 of "Oh, Baby" recorded direct to disc in the 40's. Excellent sound, low noise, very high "presence."

My 1956 stereo disc recorded at St. Marks of the Gabrieli festival that year is one of the finest recordings I've ever heard, period.

Heck, I've a Kid Ory "Muskrat Ramble" over 80 years old that makes me pee my pants. I've had folks simply refuse to believe the sound coming off that record even standing watching it spin on the Empire!

Dave

[oldenough]

Mallette said; "I've had folks simply refuse to believe the sound coming off that record even standing watching it spin on the Empire"!

Aint that the truth, many times i've had friends or relatives listening to vinyl and they are convinced that i am tricking them somehow. they usually want to know how come their record player 30 years ago did'nt sound like that. For sure some of the best sounding stuff comes from way back. I'm toying with the idea of up-grading my Rega Planar 2, but you know i wonder how much i will have to spend to get significant improvement?

[Travis In Austin]

Gary:

I certainly agree with your comments in general...there is gold and garbage in LP's just like everything audio...but I see little correlation between age and quality.

Perhaps you know something about the specific releases of the BG albums? If not, no assumptions are possible as age has nothing to do with recording quality. I have some BG and other 10" LP's from the early '50's that sound awesome. My favorite BG is a 12" 78 of "Oh, Baby" recorded direct to disc in the 40's. Excellent sound, low noise, very high "presence."

My 1956 stereo disc recorded at St. Marks of the Gabrieli festival that year is one of the finest recordings I've ever heard, period.

Heck, I've a Kid Ory "Muskrat Ramble" over 80 years old that makes me pee my pants. I've had folks simply refuse to believe the sound coming off that record even standing watching it spin on the Empire!

Dave

Mallette,

While there is not a true correlation between the age of a record and how it will sound, there is an indirect one that is significant and I believe what Gary is talking about. You could have a still sealed 78 that is gong to sound fantastic out of the box. The age is obviously not going to effect it. But with 78's in particular, there were a wide number of needles that were used to play them, and depending on the type of needle, steel, saphire, etc. they can look pristine yet play awful. The age is important because that tells you what type of needle was in "vogue" at the time and if those needles were prone to cause damage. I am certainly no expert when it comes to 78's, but they are so varied in terms of what they were coated with, etc. The early 78's were made of a material designed to keep steal needles sharp! They produced a fine dust everytime they were played.

I would say if you happen upon someone selling 78's along with their Rega P78 you are going to find the records in pretty good shape, but if they were played on the Philco "Hi-fi" and it has the original needle, none of those 78's are going to play well.

Travis

[OldGuy]

It must be remembered that before tthe RIAA curve came ino existence there where a pile of different pre equalaization curves used by a lot of record makers. Also the stylus shape and size had a lot of variatons. That is why the Stanton cartridge with it's collection of easily changeable different stylus sizes is excellent when we want to get the best out of some of these older platters.

Norm

[schwock5]

I went through the manual, it has all instructions for balancing and weighting. I also have the original 45 adaptor and the manual mentions the alignment of the cartridge using this adapter, shouldn't be too hard.

What is the "proper" way of cleaning a vinyl before playing it?

[garymd]

Gary:

I certainly agree with your comments in general...there is gold and garbage in LP's just like everything audio...but I see little correlation between age and quality.

Perhaps you know something about the specific releases of the BG albums? If not, no assumptions are possible as age has nothing to do with recording quality. I have some BG and other 10" LP's from the early '50's that sound awesome. My favorite BG is a 12" 78 of "Oh, Baby" recorded direct to disc in the 40's. Excellent sound, low noise, very high "presence."

My 1956 stereo disc recorded at St. Marks of the Gabrieli festival that year is one of the finest recordings I've ever heard, period.

Heck, I've a Kid Ory "Muskrat Ramble" over 80 years old that makes me pee my pants. I've had folks simply refuse to believe the sound coming off that record even standing watching it spin on the Empire!

Dave

Dave,

Who said anything about age? I play my 50s Blue Notes, Contemporarys, etc. all the time. They sound great. I also happen to have about 20 Benny Goodman LPs and most of them sound pretty lo-fi. Most of Benny's 33's were recorded pre-mid 50s and sound like crap. Not all but most. I'm not an idiot. I was just trying to be helpful. When you're just getting into vinyl and the sound doesn't meet your expectations, it's easy to assume it's your table when it very well could be the record.

[Mallette]

Gary:

Knowing your posts I suspected as much, but, as you mentioned, a record newbie might take your post as a generalization. I CERTAINLY know you are no idiot. Benny's 10" Columbia early LPs are good to very good, at least the ones I have. Can't list from memory and I am at work. Later re-issues are very poor compared to the originals, especially his 78's. However, I have an EMI release from the 70's or early 80's that is truly awesome. It may have been his last recording. Again, I don't have it in front of me at the moment.

Anyway, believe me that I am fully aware of the depth of knowledge you bring to this topic and the forum in general. Just a poorly crafted response on my part more directed at the thread owner than you.

Regards,
Dave

[schwock5]

What I got out of those posts were that older LPs may be poorer quality not from being old and recorded poorly, but from wear and tear and naturally aging of the vinyl itself. I found these in a basement and they are 30 years old, so I assumed that they would have degraded over the years from any number of reasons.

The records I have are Benny Goodman "Swing into Spring" and "Benny Goodman plays world favorites in high-fidelity - Recorded at the Brussels World Fair 1958." Not sure what year these were really released.