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Finally, CD's with the sound of real analog!


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While doing some research on the Franck B minor chorale I made a BIG find. www.gothicrecords.com. Folks, Mr. Roger Sherman, owner and chief engineer, is the kind of guy who makes one consider putting one' mikes on Ebay and using the money to buy his recordings.

He records at 24/88.2. That means a clean reduction to 16/44.1 with no dithering. Further, he does this with the equivalent of "direct to disc" techniques yielding an incredibly clean recording. But, wait, that's not all. I quote:

I think you will find that the recordings I have done with omnis share many of the same characteristics as your configuration with PZMs. The acoustically isolating panel between them makes them more like 180 degrees in their pick up pattern, and it eliminates the phase distortions and cancellations that can occur with a spaced pair (especially a spaced pair without enough space between them!) Likewise, this technique preserves all the characteristics that are best with omnis more extended and natural bass response and a more open, transparent treble. It is not the answer to everything, but for choirs and organs, it does very well.

If you go to our homepage, click on the iPod Optimized link at the top center, and it will give you a list of all the recordings made this way.

Yezzir, I've found digital nirvana. He talks the talk and walks the walk. Through my own experiments I'd arrived at most of these conclusions. Directional microphones using phaseing to produce directionality have audible side effects. Natural patterns, such as the PZM and ribbon, do not. I'd read of using an isolating board to shape omni response but never tried it due to my bias for ribbons (part of which is cost performance...quality condensor mikes start at $$$$ and go up!). Also, short signal path with no processing or manipulation.

So, I had to order up and see if it worked out in fact.

First up: "Harvest Home," with the Dale Warland singers. "Shall we gather at the river?" came out of that inky silence PWK commented on as surreal. I was immediately in a marvelous acoustic space with the choir about 25 feet in front of me. The beauty was so devine I lost all sense of objectivity until the music faded back into silence. Not a hint of the "brick wall" or any electronics between me and this music, just MUSIC pure and sweet. The directionality provided by the board produced a natural separation like, well, like ears. Seamless but palpable. The only criticism came from my wife. She was not raised in the Southern religious tradition so did not know the words as I do and had problems following. This was absolutely no fault of the recording but of the choir. I recall my college choir director shouting "TZUUN-AH!!!, TZUUN-AH!!!" to get us to enunciate Soon I... as in "Soon I will be done with the troubles of the world" in a way that produce clarity at the ears of the listener. The choir could have used a bit of this...but we are talking fine points here. Otherwise, they speak with the well-tempered balance of a fine Skinner string section. The acoustics of the Chapel of St. Thomas Aquinas are delicious and Mr. Sherman captured the space to perfection.

15 pages of notes. Love it! Whether secular or sacred, the notes on the music were both scholarly and written to communicate to the layman. Nice trick. If not enough, references are clear enough to dig into every piece as far as one would care to go. I'll leave at at that, as my purpose is not so much to provide an in-depth review as to hit the high points.

On to "Midnight at the Grand Court" with the Wanamaker Organ. Unique in all the world, this instrument is neither a theatre organ nor a classical organ but a class of its own. "More powerful than a locomotive, able to leap complete orchestras at a single bound..." Here again we have 15 pages of notes on the music, performers, instrument, and technical info to satisfy the audiophile thirst for facts. About the only fault I found is that the high pressure nature of the instrument was never clearly explained. For some not aware of the implications, this means that you hear a LOT of rushing air when the instrument is not playing. Not as much as many theatre instruments, but far more than a classic low pressure tracker. With nearly 29,000 pipes to feed this should not come as a big surprise. Nevertheless, some audiophiles may find it disconcerting.

That said, the sound is out of this world. The instrument includes an "ethereal" division, and ethereal it is. I cannot begin to discribe the sounds emanating from the unique resources afforded by this monumental instrument but I urge you to check it out. The growling bass provided the best yet evidence of the focus and tightening to my Klipschorns from the recently applied pipe wrap. The best way I can describe this thing is as an analog synthesizer with an infinite tone palette available to the master. I want MORE! My roots with the organ are in the classic tradition, but this thing BEGS for transcriptions of everything from the Beatles to Duke Ellington and anything in between. What a treat!

The Gothic catalog, print version, is a treat for the eyes and promises sustenance to the ears and soul. As a high churchman of the Anglican Catholic tradition I was stunned and delighted to find FOURTEEN volumes of Anglican chant Psalms from the finest English choirs. The COMPLETE New English Hymnal! There is enough organ music to satisfy your pipe cravings and a wide variety of brass, choirs, and more. Theatre organs? You bet. The Fox, Paramount, Rialto and more.

Not everything in the catalog is engineered by Roger, so look for the "24 bit" imprimatur to get his special touch. However, the "consignment" collections are also better than average as they've passed his ears. I purchased a volume (there are several) of "Hymns Through the Centuries" recorded at the National Cathedral that thrilled my high church soul. There are also a number of SACD and DVD-A offerings I'll be checking out.

As usual, YMMV. However, I don't thing you'll be disappointed.

Dave

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Okay..  I looked. I liked. I bought.    It seems tho that the recording technique referred to in the section entitled "Ipod Optimized" is not utilized in either recording you reference.  The 24 bit technique is.  Yet, the work sounds neat and I purchased the "Midnight on the Grand Court" CD.  I look forward to listening.

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Having no interest in "Ipod Optimized" I did not look into that. But you are correct, the "24 bit" notice will get you his best technique, but may or may not include use of the board between the mikes.

EDIT: Now I think about it, I realize his "Ipod Optimized" thing refers specifically to the use of the isolation board. This would produce a "binaural" effect for a headset listener while still providing a good stereo image for speakers. Even the mention of the word "Ipod" simply means freeze-dried music to me and I turn off, so I suppose I did not give it due thought.

If I were using omni's in my work I would use this board as well and for the same reasons in principle, though I could care less about Ipod. For me it is to produce a stereo image more in line with the ears natural directionality. Since I use ribbons for most things and PZM's for others, the board is unneccessary as these mikes have the "ear" directionality naturally when properly deployed.

Let me know what you think.

Dave

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Thanks for the heads-up, I'll look into this...

Speaking of PZMs, I have two of the Radio Shack clones. They stopped selling them so I bought a second as a spare. I am doing interviews for a (non-audio) book and I've found the RS PZMs to be the best mics for this work. I had one sitting on a phone book on a perforated cast aluminum table the other day, interviewing a lady on her front porch. I was concerned that the ground plane afforded by the phone book would not be enough but it was. Even using just an AV-grade cassette recorder, the bird songs came through very clearly. And, alas, so did the wind noise and the passing vehicles, but the interview was clear enough.


I'm thinking of plugging both PZMs into my Mac PowerBook and seeing how they sound just recording cats meowing, birds singing, other household noises. One thing I've wondered...If I was using them to record a music performer, should I mount them on boards held vertically, or set them on tables as I do for interviews? I am given to understand they can be mounted on room walls with good results...Any tips would be appreciated.

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you heard it here first, so just thow away your vinyl and record players.

Please do. You may leave them at my front door.

Boom3:

My first PZM was one of the RS. Those were probably the biggest bargains of all time. I have heard, but never confirmed, that the element is identical to the high priced spread. As to placement, they only need a flat surface. The pattern is 180 degrees and as long as the source is in that pattern orientation is irrelevant other than rejecting unwanted off-axis sound. Full bass response requires a 1 meter square surface, though I have found that an 18" square is adequate for all but the last half-octave or so.

Many have used over-voltage (up to nine volts) with these to reduce noise, which is significantly higher in the RS design than the Crown. Do this at your own risk.

I am attaching (I hope) a pdf file with details of how to construct my PZM mike plan. For 2 channel, just cut it in half. I think you will be amazed at the results. Used as a 4 channel surround setup the imaging is downright spooky.

Dave

PS: I have not looked at the sixcard in a while but I don't think I put construction specifics. I'd suggest a piano hinge on the plex so it can fold flat for storage. I drill a small hole in the PZM (won't hurt anything) and use a butterfly nut to mount it securely in the center of the plex for use. As simple two channel pickup, you may place it from folded to opposite sides flat (for binaural), 90 degrees with the angle pointed at the source (for stereo) or anthing up to both mike tangent to the source (to vary the image). 90 degrees is goof proof for a sonic portrait of whatever is in front.

sixcard.pdf

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Thanks...my RS PZMs are pretty hot just with the coin battery and right now I am only recording voices so when I play with recording music to the Mac I will try that.


Is anybody else making PZM these days? Didn't Crown stop making them?

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I really don't know. I bought all mine from Ebay about 4 years ago. Crown was still making them at that point as I spoke to an engineer there about some things. I did not know about the coin battery. I purchased my RS PZM's 15 or more years ago and they were using AA. Seems there was a 9 volt that had the same form factor. If noise is not an issue, I would not experiment.

Looking forward to your results...

Dave

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organ music? Do you actually sit down and listen to just straight up organ at home?

Are there demos available on the website? I tried looking for a few, but couldn't find any.

If they are squashed and freeze dried, what would you learn? I understand where you are coming from, and Linn does provide such demos...though unless you play then through your system you would not learn much. In the case of Roger Sherman, I knew from what he provides about his technique that unless he was not being truthful it HAD to be good.

I listen to organ music 24/7 in my head. There is a reason it is called the "King of Instruments." Nothing else comes close.

Actually, I don't just listen. I build support in my church to get one. I spent 8 years convincing my parish in the DFW area to spring for a superb instrument, three of that chairing the committee and threating to bury the builder if he acoustically buried the instrument. It turned out to be (quoting an authority) "...one of the finest matings of instrument to acoustics anywhere." Now I have moved and get to do it again. I am ready and willing. Few things more satisfying. I don't know about demos. Here is what the finished instrument at my last parish looked like. This was the case designers drawing (Frank Fremel, and it is photographic) as I can't lay my hands on a photo at the moment.

Dave

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If they are squashed and freeze dried, what would you learn? I understand where you are coming from, and Linn does provide such demos...though unless you play then through your system you would not learn much. In the case of Roger Sherman, I knew from what he provides about his technique that unless he was not being truthful it HAD to be good.

Well I'm thinking more in terms of listening to the music - not so much his recording techniques....though if there are high quality demo's I would be interested in that too. My computer is the source for all my listening needs so no problem hooking it up to the system [;)]

The only organ I've heard has been live in churches - never on recordings. I totally cannot fathom listening to the same stuff at home, but thought I might try to broaden my horizons a bit. I have no clue how one would go about trying to reproduce this in the home - it's a most enveloping experience when you hear it live.

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I'm with you, Dave. As you know, I listen to music performed on the pipe organ the majority of my time as well, from the demo recordings my dad and I made of our residence organ (now in Asheville, NC), to recordings of notable church, concert, and theatre organs throughout the world (nothing like getting comfortable and listening to straight-up pipe organ recordings at home, eh?). And I've also enjoyed the very Gothic CDs you mentioned above...open, neutral, and very dynamic recordings indeed, extremely well represented even on my 8 watt SET amp thru my RB-75s (and thank goodness for two powerful subwoofers)!

I'm happy you're a big proponent of the organ as well. Unfortunanly, our new church building will never know the likes of a pipe organ since its current music director has no interest in one; he doesn't even use the church's existing Rodgers electronic organ anymore, instead favoring his latest Yamaha keyboard he plays alongside a drummer and an electric bass player (pathetic)! I'd love to work for an organ manufacturer like my dad did (with the now-defunkt Klug & Schumaker, Inc. tracker organ firm here in town, and the Foley-Baker, Inc. pipe organ servicing firm up in CT)...his last project before retiring last October was the complete CAD design and engineering of the Boston Symphony Hall's $1.2 million restored/enlarged Aeolian-Skinner concert organ, including the complete design and layout of its brand new 3-manual French tiered console in the Romantic style.

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Very true. 2 channel is inherently incapable of delivering a completely satisfying organ experience. The time is ALMOST here.

Granted, no room in any home will do the mighty cathedral pipe organ complete justice, just like no Grateful Dead concert will sound as live in a room as it did with the Wall of Sound at an outdoor venue. But I think all our high-end audio systems can do a damn good job of representing a satisfying organ experience, especially with decent power driving Klipschorns, RF-7s, RB-75s, or Synergy F-1s! You'd be surprised just how faithful a quality organ recording can sound on your audio system...IMHO!

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Agreed. I own both the original quadraphonic LP from the '70s and this remastered stereo CD...if there's only one organ recording you ever buy, this particular one could most definately be the pièce de résistance in terms of musical content, organ virtuosity, and the fact that there are four large antiphonal organs in the Cathedral of Freiburg in Germany, with a huge central console able to control all four organs at once! It may not be the latest in state-of-the-art recording technology, but IMHO it holds its own with the best of 'em.

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reading up on Blue Coast Records who has a patent pending on a new recording process called Extended Sound Environment (E.S.E.) that creates a holographic sonic image, see bluecoastrecords.com, more on E.S.E. from the About Us section

Blue Coast Records first release features exceptional acoustic recordings

performed live in the studio without the use of headphones, overdubs or

digital effects. Label founder, and five time Grammy nominated producer/engineer,

Cookie Marenco, assembled a cast of world-class performers, engineers and

technicians familiar with her passion for audio excellence and appreciation

of skilled musicianship. Her work in A&R at Windham Hill and live recording

for Liquid Audio is known throughout the music community.

At a time when the world is overwhelmed with computer music of less than

CD quality, Marenco joined with French engineer, Jean Claude Reynaud, to

raise the standards of excellence in audio recording for the next generation

of audiophiles. Mature listeners will welcome this true sound while new

fans may experience acoustic music in its most lifelike form for the first

time. While some audiophile labels deliver only great sound, Marenco captures

quality performances while at the same time surpassing the artists own

expectations.

The recording sessions for these experiments in sound led to a patent pending

recording technique called Extended Sound Environment (E.S.E.). Originally

conceptualized for the surround environment, E.S.E. makes use of room and

direct microphone placement to optimize full tonal response from the instruments

and character of the room while allowing the musicians to position themselves

to hear without headphones. Attention to eliminating phase, blending the

room and direct mics, creating balanced dynamics, monitoring while recording

in surround all under Marencos production guidance brought stunning results

that truly places the listener in an audio hologram of the music. Even untrained

ears will find noticeable improvement in the stereo mixes.

The best of technologies new and old were used in the E.S.E. process. Sony

provided their latest recording technology, Direct Stream Digital (dsd)

- one bit recording at 2.4 million samples per second. To further optimize

the signal path, speakers and silver cable manufactured by Jean Marie Reynaud

for the French Aerospace Industry linked the mics to the preamps to the

console and to the speakers. Millennia preamps and B&K mics captured the

sound for the room and instruments. Of the 27 Didric mics existing in the

world, two were used for vocals giving the artist freedom to move during

recording while providing amazing detail. Marenco chose 2 analog tape with

Dolby SR as the multi-track format after comparisons with digital were made.

Analog tape still cannot be surpassed for sonic response.

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"Unfortunanly, our new church building will never know the likes of a pipe organ since its current music director has no interest in one; he doesn't even use the church's existing Rodgers electronic organ anymore, instead favoring his latest Yamaha keyboard he plays alongside a drummer and an electric bass player (pathetic)! "

Your faith must be SORELY tried! I'd conduct liturgy in my listening room before exposing myself to such a thing. But, of course, the world is full of divers paths to the Eternal.

In my case, I will have quite a challenge...but nothing compared to yours. The rector of my parish is of Southern Baptist upbringing and, though fully vested in the way of ancient liturgy he still tends towards the "middle church" ways. No incense, no Sarum plainsong. There IS a big housing in the rear of the building that was obviously intended to house a pipe organ. I estimate a mid-sized two-manual tracker with a third, MIDI, keyboard would work. Yep, like everything else I want analog AND digital. Seems to me the time is right to design organs that are liturgically pure tracker instruments with the ability to extend to true polyphony with MIDI. I became convinced ot this as viable after obtaining Hauptwerk, the organ simulator that uses sampled pipes. ALMOST sounds like the real thing and when confronted with cost and space issues, as well as the philosophical issue of how much a parish should spend beyond the requirements of liturgy to support concert use, this seems like a good compromise. I've also been impressed with the quality of the digital 32' stops that have come into acceptance in the past few years.

Doc: You may find the paper I attached earlier in this thread of interest as much of it is based on the problems of realistic pipe organ recording and reproduction. I have an SQ release of E. Power Biggs playing the 4 organs of Freiburg Cathedral simultaneously that works pretty nicely through Pro Logic II. Of course, 4 discrete channels at least of 24/88.2 quality is even better...and the technology is almost there for guys like me to provide it. I really expect disc players with the ability to directly read raw digital to come along very soon. It's just a chip programming thing and they've already expanded to include jpeg, mpeg, divx and other stuff. Keep your fingers crossed...

Dave

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Blue Coast...to paraphrase an earlier post, I looked, I downloaded and listened, I ordered.

Not that I don't have issues. Digital delay lines (very nice ones artfully used...but not a real environment, mixers (had that feeling of "maniuplated reality"), and such. OTOH, the sonics are absolutely stunning and very much what we are talking about here and what I found with Roger Sherman's more "organic" approach matching my own philosophy and experience.

The demo download ran at around 1000kbps and was 16/44.1 and nonetheless had the "look and feel of real analog." As I predicted years ago the problem is NOT with the digital process but with the engineers, and that is finally working itself out.

My wife also said "buy it" after a single listen.

Doc: Download and tell us what you think.

Dave

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