Ouch!

[NOSValves]

Tunnel into that thread and you'll find the opinion by some guy who calls himself 'jcmusic':

"Oz, I have heard these and have more than a couple of friends who currently own them. The designer has done other work for me and alot of other audio friends. They are all they say they are. Check over on the klipsch forum, quite a few guys over there have them."

Nice one Mark, and I agree.

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Which Mark? I hope you didn't mean me. I have no idea who "jcmusic" is, but rest assured it is not me. My logins are always JuicyMusic, or Mdeneen. (I just looked him up. He is in New Orleans and has 262 posts on there.)/

JCmusic is a frequent poster on AK that has many friends VRD's and has nothing to do with Mark Deneen I think Dean just assumed. Yes folks my amps sell to others besides the Klipsch forum. HEck the owner of AK has owned a pair for 2 years along with a BBX. JCmusic also knows that Douglas (pakprotector, Sector-7G) has a grudge and has very little if any experience or time listening to my amplifiers. HE may have heard them breifly at one time but no where near what it takes to make those kinds of statements.

Regardless I could careless about his posts I just consider the source....kind of same as with Anarchist []

[NOSValves]

"Pretty lame to start a thread using a misleading link title to a post on another forum from someone who has never even heard the amps"

Now here is where clarification comes in and just shows how differently we all look at things! I looked, read and thought that Robert posted it so that Craig could see someone posting erronius crap about him so he could take his challenge there and not here[*-)]

See my post below a true friend would never draw attention to a post like that! They would contact me privately.

I think Craig does awesome refurb work and builds a very nice classic old school amp. I don't think anyone in their right mind could ever knock either of those items but as a marketer of his own services and wares I feel he does as much damage to himself as he does good but that's JMO[]

Well my queue of work kind of proves you wrong. The folks that my posting style offends are for the most part the folks I would rather not do business with anyway. I'm just not into the "tell them what they want to hear" mentality.

I'm not an electrical anything but I am a consumer and just reading some of his replies would make me go elsewhere and even pay more before possibly setting him off and then you would have 2 upset people I mean when it comes to personal attacks old Nos-ty sits at the top as far as I've read!

Well go else where.....

I'm sure this might incense him to some degree but if your going to wear the shoe expect to get gum on the bottom[] Before you get started I'm not attacking him I'm just telling it as I see it here in print and I'm sure I'm not the only one as I'm also sure there are those of the opposite opinion.

Hence why my very first post in this thread said " The price I pay for speaking my mind"

Ouch! was for what the other guy said that Anarchist felt Craig might want to know is out there, un-factual and in print! I like to know when someone is Slanderizing me[:^)]

Robert wanted to start some Sh!t open your eyes.... he has been doing much the same for 4 or 5 years around here. When called on it he always pulls the Innocent card.....

[jacksonbart]

Tunnel into that thread and you'll find the opinion by some guy who calls himself 'jcmusic':

"Oz, I have heard these and have more than a couple of friends who currently own them. The designer has done other work for me and alot of other audio friends. They are all they say they are. Check over on the klipsch forum, quite a few guys over there have them."

Nice one Mark, and I agree.

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Which Mark? I hope you didn't mean me. I have no idea who "jcmusic" is, but rest assured it is not me. My logins are always JuicyMusic, or Mdeneen. (I just looked him up. He is in New Orleans and has 262 posts on there.)/

You change your avatar more than anyone I have seen.

[garymd]

Thanks Kaiser. Unfortunately, now you are likely to be attacked as well for actually reading a post and understanding its intent (and defending me.)

Gimme a break! If you had Craig's interest at heart, you never would have posted this publicly. Who are you trying to kid? At least be honest.

[sheltie dave]

"Ouch!" is how I would start a thread if I wanted to draw everyones' attention to a matter in a negative sense.

"Craig, this may need your attention" is how I would title a thread to alert Craig to a situation that needed his personal attention, coming out of respect or friendship.

If the intent was the second message, then the thread would not devolve in to its current running battle state. A simple "Sorry for the misunderstanding" would have sufficed.

The majority of fine craftsmen and women I have had dealings with are mainly a group of humble, prickly, rambunctious and singular taskmasters. These traits can make them pendactic, intractible, single-minded, and quick to take offense. On a personal level, I want to deal with people like this - a little off the beaten path - but if your purchase a service or product from such a person, given the momey you spend, you are guaranteed a singular product the creator will stand behind, with their full art and confidence.

The "review" did not offer much of a window into the life of the panner. As such, it appears he did not invest much time nor credence into his effort, so I say it is GIGO. Having heard five of Craig's VRD and STeroid builds now, I aver they are stellar products. Along with Mark's Blueberry, my set of VRDs will be my primary modern amp/preamp system for the next twenty years. They booted out a McIntosh MC240 and McIntosh C20. I believe I have the oldest combo here on the block(Mark's third Blueberry and Craig's first set of VRDs following Gary's Dynaco resurrection.) They have never failed to deliver a superlative musical session in close to three years.

YMMV, but I doubt it.

[anarchist]

Thanks Kaiser. Unfortunately, now you are likely to be attacked as well for actually reading a post and understanding its intent (and defending me.)

Gimme a break! If you had Craig's interest at heart, you never would have posted this publicly. Who are you trying to kid? At least be honest.

You and Craig can both... let me be civil. It was already posted publicly. I was bringing it to this forum where Craig would read it. I don't email Craig, I don't call Craig, and I don't particularly give a damn what you or Craig have to say about anything.

Craig has been an offensive abrasive jerk for 7 years, always attacking others and then blaming them for his childish outbursts. I have been on the receiving end many a time and also watched as Craig turned on one friend after another. Yet, I have still applauded him for going above and beyond and pointed out his helpfulness when he was helpful - to whomever.

I posted it. I didn't egg anyone on. I didn't attack anyone. I told Craig to take a prozac before viewing it because I expected he would find the post on AA offensive. Craig, as usual, attacked me. Those are the facts.

So far you have accused me of posting a misleading headline which turned out to be a BS claim. When that fails, we move on to some other claim of wrong... keep trying. It isn't like Craig or his apostles will offer anything new in their attacks.

I must thank Craig though. If it weren't for his bull$hit, I would never have been interested in maintaining or upgrading all my equipment by myself and would have missed out on the fun of DIY.

[anarchist]

Sheltie,

I would never have posted another thing in this thread if it weren't for Craigs attack on my character. I will defend myself when attacked. You and others can claim what you would have done and then decide that is a basis for defending Craig and attacking me. Matters not.

Ouch was chosen because two different people in that thread were interested in buying Craigs amps and this guy created a post which for all purposes was to dissuade them. That is an OUCH! As in this guys post was hurting Craig and needed to be responded to immediately. Note the date on the posts on that forum.

Next time I won't say $hit. You can believe that.

[boomac]

Anyone knowing what the hell a troglodyte is would surely know that Ouch and Prozac were at least provocative and perhaps even in your face

However! Although misguided politically, at times[], (my personal opinion) I find Robert to be a straight up and honest guy.

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So Robert, if you were throwing a jab, Im with the G-Man & Shelte Dave here. If you were honestly just trying to let Craig know, then I think you blew it and should apologize and delete your initial post. Im quite sure that would calm down the big growling bear in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Michigan. If you word it sweetly enough he might even blow you a kiss. Or, then again, he may offer you a chance to kiss![]

For the record: Ive heard VRDs in a couple different environments. I believe, as Randy Johnson would say, theyre the BOMB!

[3dzapper]

This thread reminds me of the first marathon runner: After running 26 12 miles and breathlessly giving his message, he was killed.

Pakprotector does come across as opinionated on AK IMO. His penchant for choke input power supplies puts him at odds against Craig's preference for capacitive input pi filters. He is also biased toward the old Citations. Again, IMO, the only good thing about the Citation is the output iron. Send a pair to Craig and, I'm sure, he could build a pair of mono-blocs that would bow the doors off a stock, recapped Citation II.

Gary, I feel your post was uncouth and unwarranted. It can only hurt your stellar respect here abouts. Craig is big enough to stand up for himself. He doesn't need the homeboys riling up trouble. Obviously unaware of Douglas' post before reading of it here, Craig responded just this evening.

I'm off. Got to catch a plane early in the AM for a big 3D shoot in Indiana.

[maxg]

On the one hand I can see why some think this would have been better handled in a pm or a mail to Craig.

On the other hand by posting this on the forum it gives a chance for all those happy owners of Craig's VRDs to leap to his defence should they want to in that other forum.

We now have the luxury of having 2 amp suppliers on the forum and I do not think anyone is seriously suggesting either of them is anything other than superb at doing the job they were designed to do.

There are plenty of delighted VRD customers on this forum and a growing number of new pCat owners who seem equally pleased with their purhase.

Whilst Craig and Robert do seem to have regular run-ins on this forum it is a big enough place for the 2 of them and both are valued members of our little community - IMHO.

Craig,

In summary - whatever motives you assign to Robert's post (and only Robert really knows) - I think it actually helps you rather than damages you in any way. Support is rallying apparently as I type. If I had ever even seen or heard the VRD's I too would doubtless be leaping to the battlements.

Putting this another way - the VRD's and the pCats are probably the only 2 high value audio products I would consider buying without having heard them or testing them in any way - just on the basis of the reports I have read on here. Well maybe a blueberry extreme/creme whatever as well.....