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More MCM Questions.


jwc

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I have in my hands 2 MSMs. At least I think that is what they are. They appear to be the Mid horn of the MCM1900 system. I glanced at them tonight and these things are alot bigger than I thought. They are in good condition too.

I was reading through the pdf file Colter uploaded the other day which describes the MCM system. States :::

"A mid-high frequency
horn (MSM) with a 1.9" throat is offered with a
drive system of four 0.7" K- 55 compression drivers (phenolic
diaphragms) on a K-4M manifold."

Now here is a photo of what I acquired. These mid horns are still loaded into a trailer and I haven't pulled them out for close looking. The guy I bought them from had what looked like a Klipsch K1132 on one horn and the other horn has some massive Altec driver on there. It looks to me like someone made a cutout in the casing in order to have better access to the driver.

Now is this horn I have the MSM that was typically used with 4 K55 drivers? Was this same horn used later but with a 2 inch driver? Is it an Exponential horn? What is it's minimal cutoff frequency? Is there any specs of this horn available anywhere?

jc

post-16499-13819334502878_thumb.jpg

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Go back to my thread when I picked mine up. I had some pics also. The earlier versions did NOT have the manifold and used a single driver instead of the 4 x K55. MIne have a Gauss driver. I think you could bolt up the K1132 as a replacment if you needed to. That is very good that you got a K1132 already. The horn model is the K240 by the way.

btw, what did they do, attack that cabinet with sledgehammer? There was a doorway on the side of the manifolded variety to get to it. On the single driver model I think there is an access hatch on the bottom. I removed the side bolts that hold the horn throat support in place and all the horn perimeter screws and set the whole thing face down and lifted the cabinet off the horn.

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SF. Got your message. May keep the quad K55 in mind if I go that route which I doubt. I'm trying to move into this 2" compression driver concept as you have.

MC. That is good news. So that is what I will try and do initially....K1132. The throat is stated at 1.9"....so I would think it would work. I'm not sure why the back of the midhorn cabinets look like that. I haven't inspected everything yet. Looks like they took off the speaker terminal plate and made the hole bigger for access of the hand. Not aware of a door. Need to look at them. I was probably goona pitch the mid horn cabinets anyway....either make new ones just like em or make some perty mounting baffle......still up in the air.

The funny thing is....I still haven't looked at these beasts or the KPT-904-LF that SF picked up for me. My wife had some brutes come by and load all this stuff into climate controlled storage. Over 1000 lbs worth of speaker stuff. Could be months before I dig em out. I will start with the Top horns and check there solidity and make sure the k1132 will do on there.

My wife states one pair of the mwm's has minor scratches and that they would look good in my "man industrial room". The other pair....beat up.......may have to jam in a barn or shop.

jc

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I think the single driver is the way to go for that big horn. Not sure the reason why it was abandoned in favor of the maniford and 4x K55.

Wouldn't you have to think (based on the 'bubble' theory) that there would be one heck of a lot of turbulence and bubble bursting in the quad setup? Now that we have much better large drivers like the Kp1132 and 1133, I think that is definitely the way to go.

Hunter? Roy?

Michael

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Mike, 


I have both the k-1132 and the k-55 X 4 manifold......my thoughts.....there is a 4 sided phase plug inside the manifold.....the 4 k-55's handle more power than the k-1132......the 4 k-55's have a lower cutoff frequency that the k-1132....for gentle slope xovers at high power my take is that the 4 k-55's is the way to go.


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I believe it was Jim Hunter that mentioned that the 4x driver manifold was implemented solely for the sake of extra power handling. However, it came at a cost of frequency response and distortion (the four drivers way overload the throat).

There is absolutely no advantage to the extra output in a home setting.

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Well...I just kinda wonder. If I have the MWM bass bins with woofers, MSM mid horns only and the Grand HF-T......What would Klipsch Parts recommend me do for drivers for the midhorns if I have very thing else? I can work around a passive or just go all active.

I don't need these now...but it would be nice to know to make plans. I have one K1132 or K1133 and I'm not sure if it is functional or not. Would wonder if I could get a pair K1133 as "replacements". If not....would have to go the expensive route and just get the KPT-402-MF "system" as the midhorn.

I know this sounds silly but kinda wouldn't mind the K1133's as replacements then I have the whole system. Then save my extra dollars on some other Cinema products that I WILL have to get for my Klipsch Commercial HT.

It's just money...right.

By the way....my 4 MWM, 2 MSM, 2 KPT-904-LF adventure cost me $2500. Was it worth it?

jc

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Just curious...have you ever asked Roy what he would do? Having designed a lot of the cinema line I think he would have the best handle on what everything sounds like. As far as your differences in bass preference, that can all be made up with some killer DIY subwoofage.

What are the constraints for your future listening environment? It sounds like you're willing to plunk down the time and cash required to do things right? The old MCM systems are really cool and put out insane amounts of output, but I don't think they'll be the most refined choices for a home environment. Did you get the version with the 10" midrange? I think it might be called the MSSM? I hear that's the real cat's meow with the MCM systems...

Since you'll be dealing with a dedicated room in the future, have you ever considered building an unfolded bass horn? I hear the khorn when unfolded is supposed to be really impressive. I also hear the math and models work rather well with straight horns too.

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Mike B.

I have exchanged with Roy briefly about the MWM bass bins in the home. Roy is pretty busy right now as you know and I really don't want to bug him with direct emails or PM's right now.

I don't have the MSSM. I'm not interested in that. I really want a 2" compression driver playing the ~300hz-400Hz. I am also not worried about power handling as this stuff is way overkill in that department.

You know...you had suggested make some unfolded 12" woofer tractrix horns back when I was mentioning the KPT 684's as a pair of bass bins. I actually did design a dual 12" K31 version of this. It is a great idea. I actually acquired 8 k31's to consider making these for surrounds and then have the real Jubilee as the two "fronts" in HT. I bagged out on the idea for now as it dawned on me AGAIN that I hardly ever listed to surround music. It is always stereo. Therefore, I'm gonna give the MWM's atry in the home. I think I will have a little Klipsch Cinema Commercial line for HT.

Another whiny thing is that my back hurts from some of the fast building and assemblyi I did over the previous 8 months. I'm a little slow on the DIY stuff right now. The straight bass horn......yep...very feasible. However, in the end it is diificult to get help with some of this stuff as it isn't Klipsch. When i run into a snag....the snag stays.

So i've buckled down to do Klipsch only stuff for a little while. I would think the MWM's would be great for the home stereo if I can get the system down to a 3-way sytem. I actually think the height will be about what the current "Home jubilee" is.

jc

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You already have the MWM's so there's no reason not to try them out at home. I'll be looking for your impressions when you get around to it.

So why are you interested in a 2" compression driver digging down to ~300, 400Hz? Like what's the rationale? From an outsider perspective it seems rather random and I doubt it's random. [:)]

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"By the way....my 4 MWM, 2 MSM, 2 KPT-904-LF adventure cost me $2500. Was it worth it?"

Yes.....retail (list is higher) on the 904's alone is 2300.

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Well, My reasoning won't be perfect as I have never really heard a straight horn with a non compression driver.

My Goal is 3 way. I don't really want my midhorn as a 12" or 10" woofer then have a tweeter on top. Plus....that is just another massive horn. Yea I know....I already have a massive bass bin.

I'm trying to keep a "low profile" as I will be sitting in front of these and I don't want the system to play over my head. I like the idea of using the MSM's with a 2" compression driver as this keeps the overall hieght low. If I were to go with the KPT-402-MF...then the height still isn't too bad.

I just like the idea of a 2' compression driver for the mid and tweet like klipsch has done with the:

KPT-535-4-T

KPT-535-T

KPT-Jubilee® 535

These are 3 way and bi-amped. I then could have a lot of flexibility changing around the bass bins.

jc

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Hey Michael C. I got to looking at the stuff I acquired this weekend....one pair of MWM's is in good shape. the other pair are beaters but solid.

The MSM's are a lot bigger than I imagined.

Michael, Is there any other literature out there regarding the MCM 1900 system. Such as curves of any of the driver/horn combos or coverage. The PDF you have provided has faded curves.

Was wondering if old brochures or setup manuals could be laying around the plant somewhere or a past/present employees might have some stuff stacked away. I realize that most of this stuff was connected to Hope...not Indy.

Now you have a pair of what is in you avatar right? Do you have the 4 K55's on the manifold? You are planning on getting the K43 woofers?

jc

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no manifold, mine are pre and have a single massive Gauss driver.

4 K43's are sitting in the garage right now. But I think the MWM-S that I'm getting from FL are the glass/trim ones so those will be the keepers and get the new drivers.

So for right now I'm sitting empty.

That K41 10" is what MAKES the stack- there is so much critical music in that mid bass region that I don't know how the MCM ever functioned without it. Note that the modern MCM- Grand has a mid bass module also.

post-10755-13819334902552_thumb.jpg

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Nice.

You may end up getting yours setup before mine. Please keep us posted.

I am not solid on what I will do with the top end yet. I will definately need new drivers at some point.

jc

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  • 4 months later...

no manifold, mine are pre and have a single massive Gauss driver.

4 K43's are sitting in the garage right now. But I think the MWM-S that I'm getting from FL are the glass/trim ones so those will be the keepers and get the new drivers.

So for right now I'm sitting empty.

That K41 10" is what MAKES the stack- there is so much critical music in that mid bass region that I don't know how the MCM ever functioned without it. Note that the modern MCM- Grand has a mid bass module also.

How about a LaScala bass bin for Mid Bass, which is what it's known for. It's much easier to come by.

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""Michael, Is there any other literature out there regarding the MCM 1900 system.  Such as curves of any of the driver/horn combos or coverage.  The PDF you have provided has faded curves.

Was wondering if old brochures or setup manuals could be laying around the plant somewhere or a past/present employees might have some stuff stacked away.  I realize that most of this stuff was connected to Hope...not Indy.""

 

I have

"dependable lifelike sound for motion picture theatres" which has mcm-4, mcm-3, scm, in it

"K-1132, k-1132a mach 1 compression driver" flyer

"k-1543/k-1546 professional series " flyer

I'll get them scanned and post  

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