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Long wall vs short wall revisited


pauln
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I know that the current wisdom is to use the long wall for Klipschorns.

I have been moving my La Scalas again, this time into another room on the long wall. I have just moved them again to the short wall with much better results. On the long wall the sound had a conjested aspect in the high bass and lower midrage. Moving to the short wall in this room fixed that and now they sound "right".

My impression is that LS like to have as long a line of sight throw before hitting a wall as possible; the extreme case is how good they are said to sound when outdoors (reported by many). The room I have them in is about 12x18 with a very high ceiling. Many have commented that one needs to be about 12 feet or more from the LS so that the sound from the different sources blend together... I wonder if this is what is happening better when they are on the short wall and have a nice long throw into the room.

The superiority of the short wall to the long wall is striking and profound. Any LS listeners experience appeciated.

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When I had my Khorns along the short wall (never had them on any other), I too noticed a clearly distinct improvement in sound when I was able to stand 25/30' back. I literally stumbled onto that reality. I had Al's ES networks in them if that is felt to make a difference. you are also right about the LaScalas sounding utterly fantastic when outside and again...some distance was given to them. (I've never had them upstairs at all, not even to mention the same room the Khorns were in...the LaScalas have always been relegated to playing in our "storage" basement)

I sometimes wonder if using a more simple crossover would have allowed that sound to meld a bit sooner/closer than it did with the ES networks.

Mike once tried to explain to me one of the benefits of a good 2 way over a good 3 way. One of them being the sound (bubble, to use Roy's term) comes together much quicker the fewer drivers you have hence, the sound comes together closer to the speaker.

I had the Jubes for a couple months before I finally "got it" as they do not display the same distinct difference in sound quality when I stand 30' away from them like I did Khorns (which were in same corner). They really sound the same whether or not you are 30' away or 7 feet away.

I think your ears are telling you the truth.

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I believe the long wall /short wall is just a guidelines. Every room will be different. I could certainly see how some long rooms (short wall) might sound better depending on several factors.

I have my Khorns on a long wall in a short room and they are excellent. I have my Lascalas and Jube clones in a long room against short walls at opposite ends. It works well for the Lascalas but not as good for the Jub clones.

I think there are lots of factors and you should let your ears decide what sounds best.

I think the best thing you can do is move them around until you find the best spot.

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Moving my La Scalas from 5 1/2 feet apart to 11 1/2 feet apart really improved the imaging, soundstage and general sound. However, going from 8 1/2 feet away to 13 feet away diminished the punch a little bit. Adding a much more powerful amp solved that problem.

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I too have my Khorns along the short wall in a 20'x27' room. The sound is amazing and the imaging is perfect. I do have the ability to turn the khorns to face the sweet spot due to the false corners I made. I also use this room for a HT, so they will stay along the short wall so I can have the second row of stadium seating.

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Thanks all, I knew it was not just my imagination.

Another thing I have been playing with is tipping up the front faces about 2" with a pair of fat books. This puts the mid horn pointing straight at my head when I'm seated. You would think this might decrease the treble as little, and the on axis treble probably is decreased; but what it really seems to do for my room is "unload" the treble a bit - makes it more clear without seeming to make it louder...? I think the tipped launch angle causes the high end paths to take more complicated bounces throughout the room which may be giving a better diffusion / defraction of reflections / reverberation. It makes the highest extentions sound dry and natural rather than wet and sparkley. The mids sound perfect facing dead straight to my head. Bass sounds the same as always, firm with no boom, probably missing the lowest true low bass octave but only a few of my records have anything down there. It does not feel like I am missing anything.

I know most find that room sound problems arise from the bass and work towards addressing that. I find that my LS bass seems to be very consistent with varying rooms and placements - it is the high end that I find I need to address with placement and position. Maybe this is because I listen at moderate levels with SETs. Some may think it is because LS (or the combo of LS and SET) has no bass. In any case it is more than enough for me.

Pauln

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Through experience and reports from satisfied users I have concluded that .7 to .8 x the front wall length ssems to be the average/proper distance to sit from the front wall in a Khorn room.

My room is 20 x 15 Khorns on long wall.

20x .7 is 14

20 x .8 is 16

I sit nearly against the back wall, it's perfect imaging.

I'm sure the short wall would also work, but you need a great deal of freedom in furniture placement. For my room, short wall placement would necessitate sitting 10-12 feet back in the 20 foot depth.

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My Khorns are either on the short or long wall (16 foot) , depending on if I count the 6-foot wide entry/hall. The (carpeted) living room is sunk down one step, and is separated from the (tiled) hall by some low cabinets and pillars protruding 4-feet on either side that I built long before I got the Khorns. It's pretty much the only place I can put 'em!

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Through experience and reports from satisfied users I have concluded that .7 to .8 x the front wall length ssems to be the average/proper distance to sit from the front wall in a Khorn room. My room is 20 x 15 Khorns on long wall. 20x .7 is 14 20 x .8 is 16 I sit nearly against the back wall, it's perfect imaging.I'm sure the short wall would also work, but you need a great deal of freedom in furniture placement. For my room, short wall placement would necessitate sitting 10-12 feet back in the 20 foot depth.

Sitting that close to the back wall must have some acoustic effect that may not be deireable. In F. Alton Everest's book, Master Handbook of Acoustics, the various listening positions are never that close to the back wall. I would imagine any rear reflections reach your ears almost immediately, thus causing a "muddy" "congested" sound. In my room, 20x27 I sit at 14' from the front "short" wall. I needed to acoustically treat the side walls due to too many side reflections, in effect creating a virtual long wall. I wish I had the time and energy to move those monsters around and play with the setup. But, with all the heavy furniture and a raised rear platform, it is now practically impossible.

One thing about Khorns, the larger the room, the better.

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You don't have to treat the whole wall, just the place where the direct reflections occur.

Get someone to move a shaving mirror around agaist the wall until you see the speaker in the mirror; that location on the wall is the place to apply the treatment.

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