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InnerTuber

Fleapower KHorns

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Hello all, I've enjoyed lurking for a while and am getting close® to making a few decisions. I see a pair of 1980 Khorns on ebay that sounds like they are in nice shape (2 grandish, not near home, but we like roadtrips). I'm considering powering them with two 300B Paramounts or two Welborne Terraplane 300B's. Fleapower is new to me, but I've always loved tube Fender and Marshall stuff, so I'm going to leap in. So, any suggestions if I'm on the wrong track, and should I feel okay with these older vintage speakers or is it better to just buy new ones? Thanks.

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I have late 70's Khorns and I love them. The gentleman that sold them to me has had numerous pair, some older and some newer, and he felt these were the best sounding of the bunch, regardless of age. The only reason he sold them is because he bought new Jubilee's. The caps on the crossovers were replaced, which you may need to do, depending. Or you could contact Bob Crites, DeanG (if he still does Khorns), or Al Klappenberger http://www.alkeng.com/. , and have new ones made. They all make very nice crossovers. I have had both Bob and Dean build new ones for my LaScala's and Cornwalls. I think you will be very pleased, go for it and enjoy.

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Opinions certainly differ here as to whether to use SET amps.

That's all I have to say on that topic.

I would caution you, however, against purchasing anything from Welborne. If you were thinking of buying new I would say, yes, you are on the WRONG TRACK!!! For further info check a search of the general, tube/DIY, SET, amp/preamp sections of Audio Asylum.

If you want to go SET and have a line on a used Terraplane, I say go for it. His products are great when you actually get them. I was a happy owner of Moondogs (2a3 based SET amp), DRD 45's, the Reveille linestage and the Reveille crossover.

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I certainly enjoyed my Khorns when driven by Wright 2A3's. That is completely a subjective preference though, and others would be vehement in disagreement. I think user satisfaction with flea power depends on the loudness level desired and the genre of music.

If buying new is an option, you will have a plug and play delight with the AK4 crossover. Vintage Khorns can sound fabulous, but will need crossover overhaul, ie. new caps, to sound up to par.

Also, in the same price range as new Khorns are Jubilee's. Probably lesser in the WAF dept, but the sound is kicked up a notch from Khorns.


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I've never heard 300B amps on Khorns (nor any other speaker)

I HAVE had my Khorns on a pair of Wright 2A3 amps as well as a pair of (bridged to 4 wpc) Transcendent SE-OTL amps (that I acquired from Daddy Dee btw) and I loved the sound of BOTH those amps. I ended up sliding towards the SE-OTL amp & sold the 2A3... later, I sold the SE-OTL amps because I simply want more juice than 4 wpc.

Now that I'm biamping, I'm contemplating on getting some OTL amps again

I think the basic answer is, can/do you live within the realm of using "X" number of watts?

If you are in the realm of power usage that those amps put out, I'd expect you to LOVE them. If you are more like me then I'd expect you to love them within their limits, but ultimately be frustrating when you want to step on it.

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Have to agree, if your normal volume preferences are moderate the low power SETs are the way to go with big Heretage. I use the Wright SETS with my La Scalas and am quite pleased/

There is nothing wrong with keeping an additional higher power amp around when you feel the need to "step on it" for the occasional party or lost weekend.

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just in case you wander kev i a hell of a nice guy, too nice to say why he suggests not to buy new from wellborne, suffice to say 2000.00 bones out for a year and no product yet,

welborne is becomming a poster child for poor customer service........................consider yourself warned

joe

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I have read similar experiences with Welbourne. I bought a used Wright WLA12A preamp used off of audiogon and when I had questions George Wright was more than happy to help. George Wright has two lines signature and direct. I could be happy with either line. The direct line has great bang for the buck.

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Thanks Joe.


George Wright - there is a guy I would recommend doing business with.  I had a pair of the WPA 3.5's (another 2a3 based SET).  Dumb me put the 2a3's in the wrong way (there was something funky about the sockets...can't remember what, but it was totally my fauly.  If I would've taken my time it should not have happened).  Called George, spoke to him on the phone and had the amps fixed and back to my house within 2 weeks for the cost of shipping.

Sometimes he can be busy, but he makes a quality produt at a great price and you don't have to worry about getting ripped off.

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Good comments so far and I appreciate you all taking the time to help. I do really like the jubilees, but not so sure the wife will! I think I'll call and try to get info on veneer just for the sake of it. That might help. And I'm cautiously watching the Welborne site and thanks for the cautinoary words. I'm not stuck on anything yet except I do want a very efficient system and like the Klipsch horn systems.

Pauln hit it on the head for me, I'd keep a big amp around in case I need chase off my wife for a while. I suppose that's a new thread at some point.

I see lots of opinions on the 3-4 watt 2A3 systems versus the 7-9 watt 300B systems. I figure I did enough damage to my sensitive lil ears playing in bands in the 70's and 80's that sonically they would likely both be lovely. So for a guy who used about 300 fender and 100 marshall watts I figured weaning myself down to about 8 outta keep me out of a rehab facility. I can certainly see how popular the Wrights and Moondogs are and that does speak volumes.

Thanks again to all who respond as the choices are many and your thoughts help.

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If you want more detailed info on my dealings with Ron, let me know and I'll explain it in an email or direct you the the Asylum or my letter to SixMoons where I discussed it at length.


In short, a number of people appear to be waiting for Ron to fill orders.  He, of course, charges credit cards as soon as the order is received.  In June he issued a mass email in response to heat from customers advising that he had been having difficulty filling orders as a result of family problems and that his shop would be closed until July 2.  No word since then, but a check of his website reveals that he is now moving and will be close for an undetermined amount of time.  The interesting part about that is that a Colorado Asylum member paid a visit to the old address listed on the website and found that it was a FedEx Kinkos.  Go figure...

Yeah, crap happens and small shops can have a difficult time keeping up.  I get that.  But I cannot excuse the scope of his problems and the length of the delay (in my case it is 11+months).  The prevailing theory is that he uses cash from new orders to pay for parts for old orders.  I suspect that he has diffculty securing parts from vendors if he treats them anything like his customers.  There are numerous reports of cutomers receiving kit orders, those kits being horribly incomplete, and Ron not responding to  demands for the remaining parts.

My advice?  Don't even consider buying from Ron.  There are several great SET manufacturers, both finished products and kits.

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Thanks Kev - I appreciate the update. Too bad, as his product sounds pretty nice. Perhaps you have some recourse via the credit card company. I'd definitly be upset and now I am warned.

Regards

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OK - First of all I'm sorry for hijacking your thread.  I just want to be real clear about Welborne to prevent others from losing money.  As for recourse, I used a credit card that I already paid and cancelled and I waited too long anyway.  I kept thinking, "C'mon...it's Welborne.  Of course he'll deliver."  Stupid me.  I should've searched the Audio Asylum forums prior to making that decision!


I actually completed my small claims filing today and will be mailing it to the Arapahoe County Court this afternoon.  I'll  have to fly to Denver to meet Ron in court, but at least that'll be fun!

Anyway...enough about that.  Again, sorry for the hijack.  Did I mention...don't buy from Welborne!

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You might really enjoy the single-ended triode amps. I certainly have, but can also appreciate what a little more power can offer, too. I know the amps Coytee, Dee, and Kev mention well, and they can sound fantastic with K-horns, not to mention more powerful than what their power rating might suggest. The SE OTL amps from Transcendent sound are OUTSTANDING output-transformerless amplifiers for the cost compared to some competition, and bridged as monoblocks are even better. I own and love our Welborne Labs Moondogs, too, but surprisingly found to prefer the Wright 2A3 amps to the stock Moondogs. George is also a really great person, and has incorporated some unique and quite old (meaning traditional) elements in both the power supply and amp circuit. The low impedance coupling between driver and output stages also helps make for a very quiet amp.

I would also suggest the Moth Audio Si2A3 (see below), but I got in on mine just before the doors seemed to close there. They come up on A-gon and ebay sometimes, though rarely.

Enjoy the quest,

Erik

post-10533-13819344181356_thumb.jpg

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SE OTL (edit) note: There is a fair amount of heat given off with this amp. It is not as efficient as some other tube amp topologies, and not even close to some of the new digital amplifiers; and all those tubes give you 1.5 watts/channel in the amp you see here. Two of these bridged for mono offer a little more than twice that. They are exquisite sounding amplifiers, where what you pay for is a talented design without visual frills that do nothing in terms of performance. Sorry, no shiny gold knobs.

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You have to appreciate the clean layout of the Wrights.


And my oh my! are those blue glass AVVT's beautiful!!!

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And Lastly, here:

Some SET owners, myself included, have found more simple, low-order networks to be suitable for this type of amplifier. I have the parts for one such network, the traditional type 'A,' that I can rebuild for you (since I took them, and their attendant autoformers completely apart). I was going to offer two pair of autoformers here, anyway, but can use them for a pair of the type 'A' networks. This isn't a for sale thing. You can have them without any obligation of any sort -- just to see what works best for you. I would ask the cost of shipping, only.

There are members on this forum who have done just the same for me, and we like to keep that sense of sharing alive here. It's not always about money, in other words. It's an easy design, and doesn't take much time at all.

Erik

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Agree strongly about the type A crossovers with big Heritage and SETs.

Here is a picture of Wrights right side up... from a 2003 post, Heritage Bob's.

St. George makes great gear, provides excellent advise, and backs his amps.

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I thought I'd chime in with my support for the Wrights, as well. I have a pair of the 3.5s running my LaScalas and haven't yet wanted for more power. As Erik mentioned, these are surprisingly quiet - in fact the quieter than any other amp I've run so far. Detail and resolution in spades, very natural sound, top to bottom.

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