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CD vs LP


jpm

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I DUG THIS GUY'S TAKE ON CD vs LP FROM ANOTHER FORUM, AT ANOTHER TIME. HE SAYS:

"The author's note about CD's lack of clicks and pops illustrates an idea that I have long held about the reason why the masses and many audiophiles still hold the illusion that CD sound is superior. They are more concerned with listening to what's NOT there on a CD than the MUSIC that IS there on an LP. When CD's first came along, they seemed like a revelation to your average person who was used to listening to poorly maintained records on cheap, rumbly turntables. If you are used to listening to records in this fashion, the quiet behind the music on a CD certainly makes it sound "better." This is why your average person who converted to CD -- or who grew up knowing only CD's -- still believes the CD was a sonic improvement over the "old fashioned" LP.

Those of us who are serious vinyl listeners know that the noise-free LP is the Holy Grail and it requires proper cleaning and care. But even an old record with some degree of surface noise can contain rich music that transcends this background if you are listening for music rather than for the blank space around it."

_______________

My THOUGHTS:

I've thought about this a lot, and had considered going back to vinyl, but the bottom line for me, is that I love the cleanliness and durability of a good CD. To my untrained ear, for the most part CDs sound great on my stereo too. CDs it shall remain for me. -jpm

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Up to about a year or two ago I only owned about a half dozen cd's. Vinyl only for me. Cds couldn't reproduce music just some PC's idea of it. I hated the neutered noise coming out of the bland ugly black LED ridden box. My vinyl collection was as valuable as any of my posessions to me. Don't Touch!!!!!

Now with the advances in tube CDPs and HDCD, SACD, Enhanced encoding makes the CD acceptable. Still not vinyl but closer than ever.

I also admit to being a "Lazy listener" as the remote on the CDP stays next to the mouse pad with control just a click away. Even my best sounding HDCD recordings can't touch the sound of good clean vinyl but Vinyl only makes up about 10-15% of my listening now. Convenience and compromise have led to a berth for the shiny discs. They're up high at eye level now and the vinyl is still standing up on the floor in front of my reel to reel. (another sad victim of electronic evolution)

I was die hard vinyl but the cd is rapidly taking over the source space like a growth.

I did however just shell out a couple weeks pay for a new preamp with killer phono section. Down but now dead. Viva Vinyl !!

Harry

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I also was accustomed to listening to LPs on cheap equipment. I found that records developed surface noise after only a few plays, so I would play the record once and record it to cassette, which seemed to last longer.

Then, a couple of years ago, I got a half-decent Technics turntable and a Shure M97xE cartridge. I was really amazed! I had no idea vinyl could sound that good. As a bonus, I had a bunch of old LPs that had only been played once. After I moved the system to a circuit with no other electrics or electronics on it, like the fridge or computer, the surface noise practically disappeared, to the point where some listeners thought they were listening to CDs.

I'm well aware that my gear is entry-level hi-fi, but it shows me what's possible.

Surface noise is not as distracting with vinyl as distortion is with CDs, since it's not in the sound stage, but seems to come directly out of each speaker, kind of like a door's been left open to the street at each side of the stage, so it's not as obtrusive as it might be. Plus, many LPs in good condition, as well as the new Quiex discs, don't have much surface noise in the first place.

Having the big record jacket with full-size artwork and legible lyrics and notes is a good thing, too.

The thing is, CDs sound that quiet because of the limitations of their 16-bit format. One bit is used for error checking, leaving 15 bits for the signal. That's not enough. When a song comes to its end on a CD, the volume fades gradually to a low level, then just drops off. With a record, it fades all the way into inaudibility, if the recording engineer mixed it that way. The same thing is happening all through the song. The lowest-level information just isn't there, because the CD format doesn't allow it.

Of course, CDs are way more convenient. The whole "tea ceremony" of dusting the record, carefully cueing it up before lowering the needle and demagnetizing after lifting it off the turntable doesn't always suit me, especially when I want to listen to some really laid-back music that I may fall asleep while listening to, like Sigur Ros. CDs are ideal then. Skipping tracks or scanning back from the comfort of my sofa is great, as well as knowing that the CD player will turn itself off if I'm off doing something else is good, too.

Almost forgot, being able to find used LPs in good shape for not much money means I've been able to collect lots of music. At the moment, my collection is about 60% vinyl and 40% CD.

I'm glad I have both formats in my system, because they both work for me.

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Kind of a fitting thread. I am hanging in the 2 channel room with TT spinning and have wifes wireless laptop going.

I
played Andrew Gold "What's wrong with this picture"; I would guess he
would be hard to find on CD. AG was a west coast dude in the Jackson
Brown and Linda Rondsdadt 70s genre. He had a hit called "Lonely Boy".
Also played an first issue pressing of Carole King "Music". I do not
recall hearing any surface noise.

If you wish to pursue being a bit of a music historian hobbyist, vinyl is a must.

If CD is your thing, upsampling to 24/96 is a must. [:D]

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I guess CDs are OK for the car, the beach, and I suppose for background music while vacuuming the house or washing dishes. I only listen to records. I have always cleaned my records before each play and almost all of them are very quiet, but a few are noisy... Here are some tips for those that like records but might be hearing some noise:

If you have a record that is not absolutely quiet when you listen to it, try to imagine that you have a fireplace in the room. It works! If you were listening to a dead quiet record one cold winter night with a fireplace burning in the room there would be the underlying crackle and occasional pop and hiss. This actually is an effective method of psychologically rising above the noise. Beside, if you were listening to a CD in a room with a fireplace burning, what would you hear?

In the event that you have a record that is just plain noisy but you still like it, do what I do; plug the old Stratocaster into the Deluxe Reverb, or get out the old Martin or the new archtop jazz guitar, sit at the piano, or break out the sax, clarinet, violin, trumpet... (my place looks like a pawn shop)... whatever you have on hand and play along, choose an instrument that is appropriate for the music (rock, blues, jazz, classical...).

What if you don't play an instrument? Well if you like music, how can you have not learned to play at least one instrument? Really? At least one? I taught my kid brother to play the guitar in six weeks - good enough that he taught a friend of his to play and they immediately got a steady gig in a steak house singing and playing songs by The Eagles, The Rolling Stones, and The Beatles... just two mics and two big acoustic western guitars. It really is that easy to get started.

When I was growing up it was a fundamental right of passage that all guys played an instrument, mostly the guitar; almost everyone I knew played the guitar - those that did not played the sax or bass something else, but everyone played something!

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I got my first CD player in 1984. Finally gave away my TT's in 92 after having them in storage for a while. For people that are happy with vinyl, more power to ya. For me, I"m not going back.

Vinyl is old news.......When I first started getting into music, vinyl was all there was, there was no choice, 15 Turntables, 600 to 800 LP's later, Good bye Vinyl, been there, done that, ...................... Never to return to Vinyl.............CD's fit my needs fine, tic, tic, pop gone, those noises drove me nutz......If vinyl is your thing, good for you, enjoy them, but returning to vinyl for me would be like, getting rid of my DVD's and going back to VHS tapes.............No Way.........It's the music that matters, not what form you choose to listen to it....................EH !!!!!!!!!

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Newer CD's are being engineered better now that they have learned the format better. Older cd's or cd's of older music just thrown onto the cd sound like crap and bother me probably as much as lp's bother OB. Overall, a well recorded and pressed lp still kicks cd butt, except in the convenience department.

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I'm gonna have to disagree with all the vinyl naysayers.

I have a $3K CD player with separate PS in my system and don't even bother listening to it anymore. I'm sorry, but anyone who hasn't heard a decent vinyl rig has no idea what they are missing. To my ears there is no comparison between vinyl and CD. Yes, they are a pain in the ***! The cleaning process. The constant turning of records. The fiddling and fidgeting, etc. But the results are well worth it!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Some records have surface noise and the occasional click and pop. Big deal! With records you get realism! Lifelike dynamics with quiet and loud passages. Vinyl just sucks you into the music. CD's on the other hand are for background noise. I play CD's when I'm working on the computer... YMMV

Mike

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There's a right or wrong answer for every individual, but not universally. Personally, I have a decent level of playback rig for both CD and vinyl, and enjoy both in pretty equal amounts....mood, music, recording, number of glasses of wine, all play a role in which sounds better to me in a given listen...

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