It needs more BARN !

[colterphoto1]

Yup, you got it- Colter's building a workshop/storage space. There's an incredibly long story and a lot of resentments behind it, but the short of it is that this property where I live used to have a pole barn on it. It was subdivided before I purchased it and I bought 2 acres and the residence. I actually staked out a location my property for the barn two years ago, then some legal issues with the property brought to light that there was a title problem. An attempt was made to rejoin the land plats and obtain the existing barn. No go, they wanted too much money. The speakers, well, they're piling up and the list of 'to do' projects is getting enormous due to the lack of suitable work space. Last time I went to build some dollies for the PA, I had all my tools out on the motor court, that's no way to live, right?

So the healing and building begins. Since this will be used primarily for storage and rebuilding of my Klipsch collection, I thought I'd post it here to not only get your input but to possibly help someone else. After all, that's what the Forum's for, innit?

I think I need about the size of the barn next door. The existing structure is pole barn 30x40 (?) with 12' side walls. It has three garage doors in one end- one double standard and one tall RV door. I don't think I need all that (especially the height? ) more enclosed storage with properly placed entries would be better. Getting all this stuff out of the attached 2-car garage will get the Honda inside (yeah), and provide a spot for another car (whenever she arrives).

Here's the list of what I need space for, let's call each of these a 10x20 (aprox) bay:

Boat- 16' Stingray on trailer (ok it might get sold)

Speaker storage (currently tools and speakers entirely consume a 2 car garage), camping gear etc.

Truck storage/ open work area (yeah the BAND room)

Workshop with table saw, drill press, router table, workbenches, tool boxes

Lawn and Garden tools- Exmark commercial mower and contents of 8x12 storage shed

Clean room- space under storage loft for electronics workbench and paint area (small exhaust fan)

So, if you've got one or dreamt of one, now's the time to pitch in. Thoughts? Ideas?

ok back to beddies now.

Michael

[Groomlakearea51]

CP1,

Is the current pole barn made from "telephone poles"? And does it have center "poles"? And how tall is the barn now? Consider a "loft" at the one end without the garage doors, and that could function as storage for not so heavy objects, clean electronics work bench area, etc. (higger up, less humidity...) Run 4' wide stairs along one side. I'd say 30' wide x 12-16' deep into the "bay". Under the loft put all the big speakers, woodworking, tools. This, by default opens out into the big workshop/ vehicle/ mower storage area. You then move out the trucks and mower (a 5 minute job) and you've got the "big band" arena... On those garage doors, personally, unless you just gotta' get rid of them, I'd keep them. No matter which one you keep, it will always be in the wrong place to move something out without turning, etc. Murphy's Garage Law.....

MWM

[colterphoto1]

This will be a new structure and I think they use 2x6 or 2x8's strapped together for the posts, with treated lower sections. It would be clear span and your idea is exactly what I've been thinking of. The existing barn has the workshop as 2/3 of the rear section, with lawn tools and a little slide door at the other side of the back, but using the entire back end as the shop/storage has merits. I think with 12' side walls the pitch of the roof would make it about 16' at center, so there would be room to stand in the center section even with a 8' workshop ceiling below.

[dkp]

Have you looked into the cost of insullating, drywalling and heating the interior so that you may use this wonderful new space in the colder months or is that not on your radar?

-David

[colterphoto1]

I've got some rough figures here somewhere. At the time we were asked by judge to put an offer on the other property we calculated $40,000. It has all the ameneties you mention.

I don't think I'd go to the trouble to A/C a barn, although I have a nice 220V unit from the old farmhouse that would suffice to keep a paint area/ small workshop more habitable.

I have hot water radiant heat here at the house, have always loved hydronic heat. I'm thinking about an in-floor system that could be run off of a wood stove or gas fired/electrical backup. Heating that mass of concrete is sure preferable to blowing hot air around the place. The wood stove could consume scraps and would also offer it's own radiant heat if it were inside.

Keeping door and windows to a minimum will also help as will careful space planning.

[IndyKlipschFan]

Michael.. just a wild thought???

Would you consider a

addition to the house.. You could have extended height ceilings

too. A lot of your neighbors have added to the houses they own on

their properties, and you could use the east driveway to go round your

house to go to it too. This could/would really allow you to upgrade

your house and also have a huge big room to work/play in as well. I am

sure you could go off of your family room, have a double door entry

into the "real HT/ House of Klipsch Room" too... This would REALLY make

a great addition, give you back your family room.... The back of this

room or to the east side could be a work room, whatever size you

wanted.. But a real room addition (pole barn size) Room addition... in

your neighborhood, might be more appropriate.

[BLSamuel]

Michael,

I like Indy's idea of adding onto your house. (Sounds considerably more expensive though [^o)]).

If you're building a barn / large shed type of building, I definitely would recommend walls tall enough to have a usuable loft space. Even if you don't build it in initially, you can always add that later. While keeping doors and windows to a minimum sounds good in theory, I'd consider at least putting some windows in your workshop area(s). Natural light is always a good thing. Working in windowless environments can be a little depressing and confusing when you enter with sunlight and exit in darkness. I spent a lot of time at college in what we called the basement in the sky - 6th floor design studio area, concrete walls with no windows. I've spent years as a cubicle dweller and even minimal windows nearby are much better than none. (Thinking of this makes me miss my 13th floor cube in front of the floor to ceiling window when I worked in the Dallas area...)

You may want to consider keeping your small shed for lawn tools and your mower. If that's not possible or desirable, consider sectioning off such areas to keep the potential mess out of your woodshop. I would prefer to keep my mower and gas can(s) away from the house and workshop if at all possible. With 2 acres the Exmark commercial mower sounds like a good choice. I'd love to get my mowers, gas cans, and other yard tools out of our garage

Insulate and otherwise make as energy efficient as possible. You'll probably spend quite a bit of time in your workshop. I wish I would've found out the details but I had a corporate instructor for a couple of classes who lived near Janesville (I thik) Wisconsin who had their home built with sand filled walls - said their winter utility bill one month for 4200 sq ft was approximately 1/10th of his neigbhbor's for 3600 sq ft. I suspect it was very well insulated as well.

And whatever you do, don't build it too small as something tells me if you have more space, your collection will expand to fill it.

Good luck and have fun.

[colterphoto1]

I staked out an area over the weekend. I'm starting with 30x40 feet, same as the existing barn. It will be 15 feet off the lot line, so there will be 30' between them, room for drainage and perhaps a tree or two. I'm thinking of staggering the location of mine so as to block the visual appearance of the second barn behind it. This will also allow a straight shot from my drive into two garage bay doors on the 'vehicle' side.

The shop side is shaping up to be the other half (20x30) which I might insulate and sheath for all weather use. The end of the barn on this shop side opens up into my back yard so that's where the speakers will be (bwhahahah). Probably a single bay door on that end somewhere and another concrete pad, possibly a little porch awning for sitting and jamming.

Zoning law states that the auxiliary structure cannot be taller than the residence. So it looks like the old barn was technically illegal. I'm thinking of using only 10' side walls. A loft should really be unnecessary as most of my stored items would not make it up stairs easily, and it'll be less space to heat. Plus it would be more in line with the looks of the house. It's a ranch with 2' wide overhangs, so would probably look correct to do the same on the barn. Besides overhangs make sense and keep the summer heat off of walls.

I'll draw up a sketch of the house and lot and post soon. Looking forward to some input, especially ideas for shop layout.

[BLSamuel]

...

I have hot water radiant heat here at the house, have always loved hydronic heat. I'm thinking about an in-floor system that could be run off of a wood stove or gas fired/electrical backup. Heating that mass of concrete is sure preferable to blowing hot air around the place. The wood stove could consume scraps and would also offer it's own radiant heat if it were inside.

...

Hot water heat is wonderful. And heating with a wood stove using scraps of wood is a great idea. Another thing to think about is leaving room for an oil burner. I think it's possible that used cooking oil can be recycled into heating oil - probably clean it up similar to recycling it into diesel fuel but maybe without the additives to make it thinner? I've not done a lot of research but think its doable. May have to investigate it as a way of heating our above ground pool...

[Groomlakearea51]

Don't count out solar as well. Maybe too expensive in Indy, but it's worth checking into.

[Tom Adams]

Michael -

I'm very interested in this project of yours since I'm in the beginning stages of a similiar project albeit smaller in scale (my garage/workshop is going to be 20'x24').

Are you sold on a wooden structure? I only ask because my building is going to be an on-slab 'A' frame metal building that will be much cheaper than if I did a stick built building. FWIW....I'll have 9' high side walls, one 8'x10' rollup door on one end, a standard 3-0 door and 2 windows on one side, one exhaust fan in the gable opposite the rollup door, and the cost of my building plus the concrete slab will be right at $6000. And since the roof trusses are metal, I'll have no center support poles - i.e. completely unobstructed floor space. I'm waiting on an estimate for 2-part spray-on foam insulation. Also, a guy I work with built a 30'x40' steel building with 15' high side walls, a 16'x12' rollup door, and fully insulated for $16K.

I realize that esthetically, a metal structure has some limitations, but the speed of construction, the lack of support poles, and virtually no long term maintenance issues (termites here) has me sold. Besides - you can't get a stick built structure truly square unless it's jig built in a factory. []

Thanks for posting this thread. I'll be a-watchin' for updates. Maybe I'll even post some updates of mine (no hi-jack intended of course. [] ).

Hey Amy....we need a new forum. In addition to Home Theater, we need Barn/Garage Sound Systems. Heck - Picky & Customsteve already have theirs done. LOL......

Tom

[dtel's wife]

And heating with a wood stove using scraps of wood is a great idea.

I wonder where Michael got an idea like that?[]

Tom,

I do think he is going to build a metal building....at least the last time I head...unless he changed his mind?[]

[Groomlakearea51]

We all just need to show up for the Pilgrimage a couple days early and do "one them ole fashioned barn raisin shindigs"

[BLSamuel]

Don't count out solar as well. Maybe too expensive in Indy, but it's worth checking into.

Maybe, but may more than pay for itself in lower heating bills. Mass. Lots of mass in the walls and floors. Holds the heat/cold in and keeps it out. I'm seeing a roof full of solar collectors heating the water that's routed through the in floor radiant heating system augmented by the woodstove and oil or gas burner. Would have to ensure that the water is never allowed to freeze or contains enough coolant to prevent freezing.

Michael, if you're thinking about making your barn energy efficient, you might consider contacting CERES (Center for Energy Reserearch/Education/Service http://www.bsu.edu/ceres/ ) at Ball State's College of Architecture and Planning. I'm sure they'd be happy to point you in the right direction. and maybe provide other assistance. It might be possible you could even get some students turned loose on helping you design an energy and cost efficient barn. Maybe you could get them to do a short design charrette. An A frame type of structure as Tom Adams is planning might provide a good angle and exposure for solar collectors...

It'd be fitting that the Klipsch Workshop at the House of Klipsch be as efficient as Klipsch speakers - more bang for 1/10 the $$$.

I'm not sure about barns, but making a house energy efficient qualifies one for tax credits. Of course if you could collect excess heat for your barn it may be possible to divert the excess to your home....

So, when's the barn raising? That sounds like a lot of fun. Followed by a party of course. Back when Dad passed away, some of his long time neighbors, those who had lived in the area their whole lives as had Dad, reminisced about the parties my Grandfather and Dad would have when they completed a chicken coop or other building. Music and soda pop, probably dancing and food and just hanging out with your neighbors. I suspect Grandpa broke out some of the homemade wine I've been told he made. All long before I came along...

[dtel's wife]

Hey Colter,

Why don't you give us a little update and let us know what your thoughts are on this barn?

[Groomlakearea51]

Get a couple of baryard animals, use hay bales to sit on, etc. just to complete the decor!!![]

[colterphoto1]

Tom, I'm thinking 30x40 with 10' side walls and several doors. It looks like the basic structure will be about $15,000. I'm interested in the spray on insulation- don't believe in putting drywall in a barn, too labor intensive. Perhaps a finished workshop on one end. Around here we get a lot of rain and hail so I will not be using steel roof, I'll put regular decking and shingles on. It's quieter too- metal roof will drive you nuts in even a light rain.

And it has to SOUND good inside too!.

[BLSamuel]

I would investigate a metal roof if you could make it quiet and it's not too expensive. For you use it may be too noisy or too expensive to dampen the noise but you'd think the noise could be controlled.

My brother and I own a couple of 50+ year old chicken coops with metal roofs that as far as I know have had no maintenance and are fine. These roofs will probably outlive both of us if we otherwise maintain the buildings. But I'm sure they're very noisy in a rain storm and naturally a hailstorm. They might not be as bad as a newer metal roof as I think there's decking beneath one of them at least of what we like to call native timber ... usually 1" rough cut white oak - very hard and strong as long as it stays dry.

Maybe I'll post a pic if I visit my brother anytime in the near future and remember to take a picture.

[dtel's wife]

Adequate insulation is available for metal roofs to control the noise. I am with you bl, less maintenance....that's what I'm talkin' about!

Some investigation into the insulation available for metal roofing might be advisable in this situation. Just my 2 cents worth!

[colterphoto1]

in typical pole barn construction with metal roofs they use trusses 8' apart, the put purlins ON EDGE on top of those 4' apart, then metal roofing. It's not very strong, dents in the first hailstorm, etc.

I want decking, possibly a metal roof on top of that, I don't know. My home has 1x6 deck boards and is the only one where the shingles didn't get knocked off by a hail storm 2 years ago.