Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
Sign in to follow this  
mdbrien

Khorns vs La Scalas

Recommended Posts

I understand that the Khorns need proper placement for optimum performance. With the Klipschorns in the proper placement, would they CLEARLY out perform the La Scalas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With all things equal, IMHO, the Klipschorns will generally "outperform" LaScalas due to the extended bass response inherent in the design. Mine do under those circumstances. Many will argue the Cornwall, LaScala, etc. as better in different rooms, applications, etc. But given a specific room, and having both types available to test, the overall answer will pretty much be the Klipschorn. I have all three types, I use them, however, under different listening circumstances, source material, etc. Again, this is only my opinion....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, enough to knock your socks off.

When I went from LaScalas to Khorns it was partly because I kept hearing these people talk about the difference. I was thinking, how much difference could there be with the same drivers and crossover. The difference is noticeable and significant.

The difference in sound is obviously more extended and full bass. The LaScala bass horn is simply limited by physics as to what it can do. What really surprised me was that the mid and hf was a bigger sound than it was coming out of a LaScala cab. My take on that is that the Khorn cab is optimal for loading the room with sound. Even putting LaScalas in corners can't duplicate it. With a Khorn the K55 is nestled right in the corner and a LaScala cab can't get it to the same place.

I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As good as they all are, I agree with the above comments.

I think as you step up the line you WILL easily notice a change in sound.

I've owned LaScalas since 1979, Khorns for several years and now the big plug uglies. I think each one sounds better than the previous and anyone who actually HEARS them with good ears and an open mind (oops, sorry Craig [:$]) would be able to distinguish a difference in a heartbeat.

If you are ever in my neck of the woods, you are more than welcome to hear my LaScalas, Jubes, or even "Jube-Scalas" (K-402 on top of LaScalas as a 2-way) and come to your own conclusions.

Dinner on me if you agree with Craig and dinner on Craig if you agree with me! [;)]

[A]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are ever in my neck of the woods, you are more than welcome to hear my LaScalas, Jubes, or even "Jube-Scalas" (K-402 on top of LaScalas as a 2-way) and come to your own conclusions.

'

I just wish you were in my neck of the woods [:D]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that the Khorns need proper placement for optimum performance. With the Klipschorns in the proper placement, would they CLEARLY out perform the La Scalas?

Hmmm, wait, is this a trick question?

-Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone above makes great comments. I agree that Khorns sound much fuller, and I did not expect that moving from Belles to Khorns that there would be as much of a difference as there is. And yes, the Khorns go lower than the LaScalas/Belles.

The only caveat that I would throw in is that the horn-loaded bass with LaScalas sounds a bit faster than the Khorn horn-loaded bass, and because of that, I prefer LaScalas/Belles for some rock songs as opposed to Khorns. As a result, I usually run my Khorns in the front and my Belles in the rear to get the best of both worlds - even in two-channel.

But, yes, there is a substantial difference.

Carl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mdbrien,

One thing you mention regarding Khorns is proper placement. That is a simple thing. It's just get them snugged in the corners. Piece of cake as long as you've got the corners. Now that I've had Khorns, every time I'm in someone's living room, I look at their corners. There are some rooms which just don't work for Khorns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of points.

First, that was an interesting observation (if I may re-word it slightly) that the bass on the La Scala differs from the K-Horn not only along the obvious dimension of low frequency extension but also along another dimension (the term "fast" was used). I have also noticed this, but I have not been able to explain it (it seemed to be more than just simple differences between the two set ups, since it was not a side-by-side comparison). I have wondered what caused this.

Second, I hope folks do not immediately shy away from the K-Horn because of the "corner" issue. There have certainly been a number of informative threads about substituting false corners or installing backs on the K-Horns. There are a variety of approaches and some may work nicely for you. In some ways this can actually be better than a "real" corner, since it more likely to ensure a snug placement into that "corner".

-Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed on this "fast" thing. But then again, by design, the time delay on the LaScala bass is less. Less "smear". It's almost a feeling, more than an finite "quantity". Goes back to what I had mentioned about source. Some things seem to sound better on the LaScalas, some on the Klipschorns, etc. Overall though, if you have the corners, the space, etc. the Klipschorns will (IMHO) generally sound better. That bin using the walls is pretty hard to beat!! "rich" would also be a way to describe it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest " "
"With the Klipschorns in the proper placement, would they CLEARLY out perform the La Scalas?"

Yes in a nice room setting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had some info from Tom Danley somewhere that told of the time delays on different horn frequencies... the lower being very late compared to the up freq. I can't find it right now. Adjusting for them was not a trivial matter.

Bruce

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

I have used all the heritage models over the years but in the appropriate corner and room and given the 'height to ear ratio' of the Khorn it will out perform (IMHO) most speakers. Buying 2nd hand and doing a few mods will create an even bigger gap on a 'bang for buck' ratio!

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark,

So what are you getting when you upgrade from the La Scala to the ne plus ultra Klipschorn other than 20 Hz deeper bass (rated at 33 Hz versus 53 Hz)? The efficiencies, drivers, squawker horns & tweeters for both loudspeaker models are identical.

IMHO it has to do with creating a more realistic (ergo believeable) soundstage. The Klipschorn is 15 inches taller than the La Scala. That means the mid and tweeter horns are at your seated ear level, not your kneecaps. Well, maybe mid abdomen! The only "problem" I have with my center channel Belle Klipsch is that the mid and high sound sources are lower than those from the corner horns. This tends to "distort" the soundfield.

BTW for those of you considering adding a center channel to your La Scalas, Belle or Klipschorn, I highly recommend an all horn-loaded design. My first pair of Klipschorns (unfinished walnut) was purchased back in 1973 along with a single Cornwall as center channel. Big mistake. Although the Cornwall had deeper bass capability than the horns, the bass distortion compared to the horns was very noticeable.

Another consideration is the K-400 horn in the Klipschorn will have fewer cabinet edge diffraction anomalies because it has more "loading" around it compared to the La Scala. Look at the La Scala link and note the amount of wood surrounding the K-400 midrange horn. Now click on the Klipschorn link from that page and note that by looking thru the grill cloth you can see the increased solid surface surrounding the Klipschorn's K-400 horn.

Whether there is a direct correlation between "more" or "fewer" diffraction anomalies and "worse" or "better" sound is a subject for objective measurement and subjective listening.

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/la-scala.aspx

Here are some interesting links that address the diffraction issue.

http://www.trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/faq.htm#Q8

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/diffraction.htm

http://www.usenclosure.com/diffraction%20graphs/diffraction-graphs.htm

Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO it has to do with creating a more realistic (ergo believeable) soundstage. The Klipschorn is 15 inches taller than the La Scala. That means the mid and tweeter horns are at your seated ear level, not your kneecaps. Well, maybe mid abdomen! The only "problem" I have with my center channel Belle Klipsch is that the mid and high sound sources are lower than those from the corner horns. This tends to "distort" the soundfield.

You must have very tall furniture (or be very tall). I have the mid-70s La Scalas that are only 34.5 inches tall, 17.5 inches shorter than Klipschorns. Sitting on my old sofa, my ears were a little above the level of the tweeters. With my new reclining sofa, ear level is either 4-5 inches above the tweeters or directly in line with them, depending on how laid-back I want to be at the moment. I'm 5-9. The sound is good in either case.

With a pair of Klipschorns the tweeters would be a foot over my head. I haven't listened to a pair of speakers as tall as that, but I'm not sure it would be an improvement. Sounds like a case of using the speaker that best fits the room and listener, in every way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... Sounds like a case of using the speaker that best fits the room and listener, in every way.

"Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, you have heard the arguments. I can speak no further in light of the testimony you have heard; thus the Defense rests"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little off subject, but after reading this post, I am really wondering what the best center channel is to go with KHORNS?

And if the answer is a La Scala, does anyone know of a single for sale at a reasonable price?

Thanks

Brac .............Proud new owner of 77 Khorns........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little off subject, but after reading this post, I am really wondering what the best center channel is to go with KHORNS?

And if the answer is a La Scala, does anyone know of a single for sale at a reasonable price?

Thanks

Brac  .............Proud new owner of 77 Khorns........



You would have better luck buying a used pair and selling the other one to someone  else that wants a two channel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little off subject, but after reading this post, I am really wondering what the best center channel is to go with KHORNS?

And if the answer is a La Scala, does anyone know of a single for sale at a reasonable price?

Keep checking EBay. Single La Scalas do show up, sometimes having been connected to an organ in a church, or having been a center in a home theater.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Monitors sound "faster" than floorstanders. The smaller the speaker the "faster" it sounds. If you want to hear a really fast speaker -- disconnect the woofers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...