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mdbrien

Khorns vs La Scalas

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Monitors sound "faster" than floorstanders. The smaller the speaker the "faster" it sounds. If you want to hear a really fast speaker -- disconnect the woofers.

Now that's funny. And true.

I had AK3 k-horns for a few years and LS2's for a few months, and:

I didn't like the low height of the LS2, but I think it was really just all in my head, cuz it passed the stand up / sit down test beautifully.

I felt the LS2, out along a wall, imaged much better than the k-horns in corners, in terms of depth and specificity, but k-horns produced a bigger, more life-like presentation.

The k-horns had tons of bass (in the right room), while the LS2's required subs in my room & set-up (not necessarily in yours). On the other hand, in the wrong room, k-horns are useless w/o modifying either the speaker or the room.

LS2's look to squat and boxy, while k-horns stand tall and proud. Plus the LS-2 actually intrudes more into your living space than k-horns that are snugged into corners.

I wish I still had'em both.[:'(]

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Digging up an old post here since I will have a similiar geomtry. Thanks.

Are the Tops angled more than the Bass Bins? yes

How many inches are the Bass Bins from the side wall?

I will check on that sometime soon.

The bass bins have gone straight out and toed in a little bit too, close in angles to the tops. I personally can't tell too much difference either way to my ears. So I toed them in just a little.. Bass is not as directionable to most ears.

The tops however are exactly pointed to the left and right two center seats at ear level height and direction wise. (I used a laser pointer to confirm this)

You may ask why?

Say what you want to go to this extreem in placement, but I can demonstratate a singer that seems to be exactly coming from a center speaker (that is not on obviously in stereo) the image is so good, you swear it is on, and you can place everyone as though they are playing live in front of you.

It's THAT cool!

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I can demonstratate a singer that seems to be exactly coming from a center speaker (that is not on obviously in stereo) the image is so good, you swear it is on

I read Rogers comments about this before and felt "yeah sure, I understand that you might get good focused imaging...."

Then I stopped by his place once and with just the two of us there, he played some material.

Roger is a smiling happy kinda guy and when I heard what I heard, I just KNEW that he was pulling a joke on me. He had something playing and told me it was in 2-channel.

I can not tell you with enough emphasis that the CENTER of the sound was coming at me from DEAD CENTER in the room.

2-channel huh?

The cynic in me realized I was heading for a 'gotcha' moment as I turned to look at Roger and fully expected him to be red faced laughing his hiney off at my expense. Instead, he was simply engrossed in what we were listning to. Why he was not laughing at me yet, was a bit of a curioisity to me.

I asked him again if what I was hearing was 2-channel....because the phantom center was SO incredible.

He assured me it was. I still knew he was fibbing and was about ready to burst his gut laughing at me. So, what did I do? I called him on his bluff.

I stood up....walked directly to the front of the room where his center LaScala was located hearing the sound come out of that LaScala the entire way.....

That is, until I got 3-4 feet away from the speaker itself. As I got somewhere in that range, the sound that was simply beaming at me from that central location gently washed away and widened out to the two LaScalas on the front sides.

My mouth hit the bloody floor (figure of speach, Roger doesn't live in a house with bloody floors)

I STILL thought he was playing some kind of joke on me however, now I realized it was more sinister and deceptive than I had originally presumed. Seems I was wrong on all counts. He was back in his chair, beaming with enjoyment & pride in his accomplishment (as well he should).

I have never ever ever everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr heard a stereo pair of speakers create such a realistic and stunning phantom center image.

After I picked my jaw up off his floor, I realized how inadequate the imaging on my system is at home. (thanks Roger [8o|])

Seriously.....if you (or anyone) gets the chance to visit him in Indy, I'll bet you lunch that you too, will walk away with your jaw carried in your hand. It really is that good.

[Y]

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It's that center imaging that the LS and the Khorns will do in a properly treated room that always amazes folks. "Wall of Voodoo" notwithstanding, running just one 2 channel amp with the K'horns (or the Heresy's for that matter) always amazes folks. Placement, room construction geometry, and how the furniture, etc. is layed out can have dramatic effects for the good.... or for the worse as the case may be. I've fooled around with the Belles and the LS's in the corners and the imaging is about the same as the K'horns. But as noted, the K'horns (in a properly set up room) do deliver the additional low end. Besides what else is one to do with otherwise useless corners in a room! Without a pair of K'horns, corners in rooms just end up collecting junk and weird looking bookshelves!!! Or at least that's the excuse that I've used with SWMBO all these years to justify them..... !!! LOL!!! [;)]

[H]

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Getting an amazing center image in 2 channel -- from a center chair -- has never been a problem for me since about 1964 when the voice of the announcer on a test record came right out of the fireplace in the center of the my two channel array. That was with JBLs. Since then, I've had that kind of image with different speakers in different rooms, including now with Khorns. The PROBLEM is getting that kind of center image from seats off to the side a bit. In our 5 chair wide array, with chairs only 2' wide and shoved together, about 13 feet from the array that has the Khorn tweeters about 13 feet apart, the image from the center three chairs is O.K., but not dead on, and from the outermost two, much less satisfactory. Using a center channel (Belle Klipsch, same drivers as in flanking Khorns) helps, but doesn't cure completely, and the ideal level of the center varies wildly with the recording. Also, a pet peeve is a violinist or vocalist in the center who passionately sways from side to side. Too bad they can't have the microphones on some kind of computer assisted rig that sways back and forth with the soloist!

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Well, regarding "slowness": The K-horn, due to its size and design, sends out more bass energy into the room than a La Scala does (at the same amp output power) In fact, with a K-horn the room walls act as direct extensions of the woofer. If the room walls, floor, ceiling are not "solid enough", or if the room has a lot resonating material, there can be an "undesirable slowness"in the sound (less damping, late subsiding). On the other hand, pure bass, as it comes out the speakers, should be slow. This we could call the "desirable component" of the slowness. ( rumbling). A "high fidelity" reproduction of a bass sound should always be "slow".. Like the rumbling sound earthquake.. What I am saying, is, the better the bass reproduction of a speaker, the important is to have a "solid" room and furniture choice, in order to eliminate "unwanted slowness".

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Put it this way.... People say, "Roger, do you have the center channel on??? And they SWEAR IT IS... in 2 channel... They walk up to check and hear it ( I do it too sometimes it is really nuts!!) but it is not.. Go back to sit down and scratch their heads... It is just perfect and sure sounds like it is! Placement in that room is just amazing, you can close your eyes and know exactly where people are on that imaginary stage before you..

Yes, but I duplicate the exact same effect with either La Scala toed-in like Klipschorns, or with Klipschorns. For me, the LS doesn't do this any better than the KHorn, but they both do it better than anything else I have heard.

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The bass bins have gone straight out and toed in a little bit too, close in angles to the tops. I personally can't tell too much difference either way to my ears. So I toed them in just a little.. Bass is not as directionable to most ears.

The tops however are exactly pointed to the left and right two center seats at ear level height and direction wise. (I used a laser pointer to confirm this)

You may ask why?

Say what you want to go to this extreem in placement, but I can demonstratate a singer that seems to be exactly coming from a center speaker (that is not on obviously in stereo) the image is so good, you swear it is on, and you can place everyone as though they are playing live in front of you.


There's nothing extreme about using a laser pointer to aim your speakers. It's much quicker, simpler and more accurate than running back and forth with a tape measure. A laser level is also easy to use to aim speakers.

To get speaker positioning and orienting really dialed in for the utmost in imaging accuracy, the smaller the discrepancies between speakers, the better, and the laser method makes it simple.

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