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SpinDoctor15

KG 2.5 versus KG 2.2: is there a REAL difference?

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I'm looking for another set of KGs for my center position, and I haven't been able to discern a clear difference between the KG 2.5s and the KG 2.2s, other than the facts that they were manufactured at different times and they have different woofers (2.5 has K-1019-S and 2.2 has K-1008-K). Are there any other differences that would make a significant dent in my system (2x KG 5.5 and 2x KG 2.5)?

http://www.klipsch.com/products/discontinued/details/kg-2-5.aspx

http://www.klipsch.com/products/discontinued/details/kg-2-2.aspx

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Without an A/B comparison, just looking at the specs, I would think the difference would not be noticeable. I would buy whichever you find first.

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I'm kind of leaning that way, the 2.2s seem to sell for a bit cheaper than pairs of 2.5s...

By the way, I saw the other thread that Juko started about the 2.2 and 2.5 differences, but it devolved into a discussion on the 3.5 and 4.5 models. Does anyone have any additional input about the 2.2 and 2.5 differences? Here's what I have so far:

2.2 vs 2.5
same tweeter
different woofer (same size)
different dome: phenolic dome vs. polymer dome (respectively)
different manufacture dates: 1992+ vs. 1994+ (respectively)

Thanks in advance!

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Here we go again!

Short answer: Yes there is a difference.

I'll make it really simple for you, the KG 2.5 is designed to work with the X.5 (ie. 3.5, 4.5, 5.5) series speakers, and the KG 2.2 is designed to work with the X.2 (3.2, 4.2, 5.2) series speakers.

Could you get away with using a 2.2 in place of a 2.5 probably, but if you want the CORRECT matching center speaker and choose to do it right the first time you know which one you need.

Specs won't tell you anything about how the speaker sounds, the woofers are different as are the diaphrams, and there may be subtle crossover differences as well. If Klipsch thought the KG 2.2 could be voiced to the X.5 series they would not have made a KG 2.5 saavy!

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Ok, that helps, you're right that specs often don't tell the whole story!

I was under the impression that Klipsch never designed a dedicated center for the KG series, but after seeing the grill on my KG 2.5s, I noticed that they in-fact placed a support piece in the center of the long edge of the grill for a Klipsch logo badge, indicating to me that they did in-fact plan on some folks using these as center (or lay-down bookshelf speakers!) without having to stare at the Klipsch logo sideways.

Since I don't have the space or the tools to build a custom center with a true K-85 tweeter (to match my KG 5.5s) I'll look for some 2.5s. Thanks for the inputs!

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Sorry for taking my thread off topic. Maybe I should have started a new thread.

I liked what STL had to say in the other thread about the KG 3.2 and
3.5 having the same woofer and tweeter. It makes sense that the 2.2 and
2.5 will sound the same sound or at least very close to each other. At
least it will be a lot better match than the KV-3.

Anyways, I think everything depends on how badly you want the speaker. It looks like you've been looking for the KG 2.5 for quite a while. If you can't find a good price on the 2.5's, I would buy the 2.2's now if you can get a good deal on them, try them, and sell them if they doesn't match well enough for you. If you get a good deal, you'll break even or possibly make a little bit on the sale. Even if you lost $20 or so, it might be worth it to have something "good enough" for now. Maybe you'll even find that it matches well, but is overpowered by the 5.5's. That'll take the 2.5 out of the picture too.

Anyways, best of luck on your search.

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Yes, there is a difference (but it's one that could easily be fixed if you're trying to match the KGx.5 series). The KGx.2 series uses a phenolic dome for the tweeters while the KGx.5 series uses a poly dome. While the two sound pretty similiar, there is indeed a difference. Klipsch no longer makes/sells the phenolic dome, but they do still sell replacement poly ones. So if you wanted to match a KGx.5, you could still buy a KGx.2 then call 1-800-KLIPSCH and order a replacement dome for the tweeter (which will be poly) to make it sound like your other speakers.

Although not directly related to the topic, I wanted to bring up other differences. Both the 3.2 and 3.5 used passive radiators while the 3.5 and 4.5 used ports, but both are froms of venting and the small differences would be transparent to 99% of people. Also the differences between the 5.2 (with one 10" woofer) and 5.5 (that uses two 10" woofers) are substaintial, whereas on all the other models they're minor.

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If you have KG5.5s mains like me, then you should really consider making a custom center. If you don't want to build one from scratch (like I did) then consider modifying a KG4.x or 5.x -- or even a KG3.x if you cannot find/fit either of the other two.

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STL,

Thanks for the replies! Do you have a link to a DIY guide for making your speaker, or even some photos? I assume I'd have to find a K-85 Tractrix and then which woofers did you use, the 6.5" ones from the KG 2.5 model? Also, what dimensions are your center? I am living in a one-bedroom apartment right now, so I don't have a ton of space, which is why a 2.5 might be good for the center...

I'm planning on making a shelf to mount it on the wall above the TV, should work well there, here are some photos of my setup. Just taken with a point-and-shoot Canon (Powershot SD400):

Posted Image

Posted Image

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Here is a pic of my center under construction. Notice I angled (down) the front motorboard since the center is mounted above my 55" HDTV.

post-2398-13819349046088_thumb.jpg

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Here is the finished product (minus the grill I still need to make). I used four K-1075-SV 6.5" woofers (used in the SF-2) because that's what I was able to find at good price. Originally I had a K-85-K and xover from a KG4.2, but later replaced them with KG5.5 parts. I still probably need to do some xover tweaking, but I haven't had the time (and it still sounds very good as is).

post-2398-13819349047168_thumb.jpg

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Looks great! The placement looks really nice too. I don't know much about the electronics, etc. How did you learn about how to construct the speaker and what parts you needed: crossover, etc.

Is the "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" a good read?

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Is the "Loudspeaker Design Cookbook" a good read?

Yes, that's a great place to start. After reading that, you'll then have to learn the nuisances by trail and error. [:)]

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Hi STL,

The center looks great. I do have some remaining questions though:

The crossover you used was designed for the KG 5.5, correct? If so, it was meant to drive the K-85 Tractrix and the 2x 10" woofers in a KG 5.5. Wouldn't using 4x 6.5" woofers with the same crossover alter the dynamics of the crossover's function? Do you find that the mid-range is boosted too much (or too little?).

Did you consider calculating the optimal crossover setup and building (or having someone else build) a new board for your center?

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I just don't see how that custom center could be timbre matched correctly to the KG 5.5's, the only thing similar is the tweeter and crossover network which is only part of the equation. The impedance of the dual drivers differs from the 10's so the crossover cutoff point could not possibly be correct. How did you properly calculate internal volume based on the T/S paramters for the woofers and proper porting and port length. The sonics of the SF-2 woofers will be quite different than those of the KG 2.5 6.5" drivers.

Much easier to use a KG 2.5 since Klipsch has already done all the proper calculations, tested it in an soundproof chamber and performed plots to ensure it is matched to its X.5 brethren.

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I mentioned a few posts up (with the finished-product pic) that I still needed to tweak the xover but hadn't yet found the time. Yes, I believe I am getting a little more midrange out of my speaker (around 1.6kHz). That's likely because the 6.5" drivers play higher that the 10" drivers can; so a slightly lower xover point is probably needed for the woofer. The schematic for the KG5.5 shows it uses a 1mH coil along with 24uF cap, and the schematic for the SF-1 (which used the K-1075-SV before later switching to the K-1078-SV -- which was due to a supplier change) also has a 1mH coil along with a 24uF cap. By running two sets of K-1075-SV drivers in series then paralleling those pairs together, I effectively get the same impedance as one driver -- so that's a match for the low-pass section of a SF-1 crossover which happens to uses the same values as a KG5.5. So you see the stock KG5.5 crossover is a much better match than one might think. Like I said, even without the tweaking the speaker sounds pretty darn good and much better than anything else I've used.

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The impedance of the dual drivers differs from the 10's so the crossover cutoff point could not possibly be correct.

See my previous post. I agree it was rather unlikely, but the KG5.5 xover is actually very well suited for my four K-1075-SV drivers.

How did you properly calculate internal volume based on the T/S paramters for the woofers and proper porting and port length.

It really wasn't that hard -- and I didn't even need to T/S paramters. First off all, the K-1075-SV woofer were used in both the SF-1 and the SF-2. While I aligned their top-end with the SF-1 (by modeling my xover off the one from the SF-1) I elected to model the low-end off the SF-2. I was able to get the internal dimensions of an SF-2 cabinet and therefore was able to determine its internal volume. I was also able to get the diameter and depth of the SF-2 port and therefore able to determine what frequency it was tuned to (since the venting freq. is only a function of the enclosure and port specs -- and not of the driver itself). I then started off trying to design a enclosure twice as big as SF-2 enclosure, but I ended up scaling that back (to just 1.5x). Then I simply tuned the ports of the new enclosure to the same frequency as the SF-2.


The sonics of the SF-2 woofers will be quite different than those of the KG 2.5 6.5" drivers.

I agree there is a difference, but disagree that it is substantial. In fact, I'd say there is less of a difference in the sonics between the 6.5" K-1075 and the 6.5" K-1019 than there is between the 6.5" K-1019 and the 10" K-1023.

Much easier to use a KG 2.5 since Klipsch has already done all the proper calculations, tested it in an soundproof chamber and performed plots to ensure it is matched to its X.5 brethren.

But what you don't seem to grasp is that the KG2.5 is still a compromise because it was designed to fit in a "small" space. It doesn't even use the same tweeter -- which is a big factor in timbre matching!

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Another difference: The 2.5 are pre-drilled for omnimount brackets. I have mine on the wall using omnimounts. They are a bit expensive, but they sure do look great and work very well.

Take care

Mike

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Thanks for all the great detail on that STL!

How about this product, the Klipsch IW-250? http://www.klipsch.com/products/discontinued/details/iw-250.aspx

It looks like a 2.5 without a cabinet, since it's designed to be an in-wall speaker. If you built your own custom cabinet for application as a center speaker, would it be close to a 2.5 in terms of performance? The Klipsch website doesn't specify the stock number for the tweeter or woofers, but since it says 1" poly dome, I assume it's closest to the 2.5. The mounting plate and positioning of the speakers are a "dead ringer" for the looks of the 2.5. Let me know what you think!

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According to my information, the IW-250 used the same woofers (the K-1029-S) and tweeter (the K-86-K) as the KG2.5. So if you can find one, you could easily make it a KG2.5 with the addition of an enlcosure.

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