Klipsch Epic CF 3 Version 1 In Da House

[gagelle]

OK, this is something I read late one night when I was tired, so I don't remember the source. This audio engineer wrote that biamping a speaker with a passive crossover does very little, or nothing for the sound. You're not really biamping but biwiring. What is needed is a well designed active crossover. Then biamping can make a significant difference in sound quality.

Now, I'm merely repeating this person's words. I have no engineering background and, therefore, have no idea if this person knows what he's writing about. I just thought it would be an interesting topic to bring into this interesting discussion.

[moray james]

When you remove the jumpers between the two sets of 5 way binding posts you split the crossover into two separate sections. The horn is run off one amp the woofers are run off another amp in both cases you are using separate passive crossovers. You are bi amping. Your average low cost active filter is not likely to do near as well a job as Roy did passively. You will need to dial in the exact precise requirements to provide CD compensation for the horn. That is a very difficult thing to measure for and Klipsch does not make that horn information available. Not saying it cannot be better with active just a lot more expensive and difficult to achieve. Perhaps if Roy is reading he can explain?Best regards Moray James.

[gagelle]

Thanks, Morey, for the clarification. I take everything I read on the web with a grain of salt. I will search for that web site. They had instructions for creating an active crossover. It was totally over my head, though.

[moray james]

you are most welcome and I do hope that you can find the site as it would bee most interesting to see how the CD compensation was dealt with. Many pro active crossovers have a preset EQ for CD compensation as there are so many CD horns in use today but many of these EQ networks are a straight shelf response which kicks in a a pre determined frequency lets say 3KHz or more. So if that frequency is too low for your horn you are expected to use some PEQ to adjust.

Perhaps one of the forum members who have hands on Active network experience in adjusting for sudh CD compensation would jump in ad wakl us through the process because it is very important to get right if you want you horn to be able to make any high end. Thanks. Best regards Moray James.

[kapsnb01]

Started my bracing & dampening project. Thought I'd keep track of it and post some pictures in a separate thread.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/p/172130/1930989.aspx#1930989

[ka7niq]

Cool! Let all of us know how you like the changes it will make in the sound ?

I just got my new Biwire Cables by UPS today, so I have to get get them in my system.

[Fizzlemizzle]

Mine seem to be a bit strange. I bought these about 3 months ago for a decent price. They have the correct version 1 serial, but they have 5 1/8" ports and the heavy guage clear jacket wiring inside. The drivers are noticably stiffer than the woofers on my KLF-20s. Is this unusual to have the shorter ports with the clear wiring on a 1994 production?

[Fizzlemizzle]

And here's a pic of them next to my KLF-20s for all you Epic and KLF fans. I feel very lucky to have found these both locally for such a reasonable price.

[kapsnb01]

I would say that from what Klipsch sent to me, you have the version 1s. The clear heavy gauge internal wiring and the 5" ports were the main characteristics of the 1s. At worst, they are version 2s that a previous owner added the 5" ports to. Version 1s were in production until fall of 1994, so being yours were made on the 253rd day of 1994...they're real close either way... Either way, you have the more desirable heavy drivers.

[ka7niq]

Mine seem to be a bit strange. I bought these about 3 months ago for a decent price. They have the correct version 1 serial, but they have 5 1/8" ports and the heavy guage clear jacket wiring inside. The drivers are noticably stiffer than the woofers on my KLF-20s. Is this unusual to have the shorter ports with the clear wiring on a 1994 production?

They are the rarest of the rare, the most desirable of the desirable, Klipsch Epic version ones!

You can drop them off over here, anytime you like:)

[ka7niq]

I would say that from what Klipsch sent to me, you have the version 1s. The clear heavy gauge internal wiring and the 5" ports were the main characteristics of the 1s. At worst, they are version 2s that a previous owner added the 5" ports to. Version 1s were in production until fall of 1994, so being yours were made on the 253rd day of 1994...they're real close either way... Either way, you have the more desirable heavy drivers.

Yes, as long as he did not get stuck with version 3's! Roy Delgado told me they changed driver suppliers on the version 3's.

The heavier cones damp the midrange more, according to Roy. The version 3 has cheaper, lighter drivers.

I believe either Fostex or Foster of Japan made the Version 1 and 2 Drivers in the CF Series.

It was a different vendor that made the version 3 drivers.

[twelveblocks]

Once again I have purchased another set of Epic speakers. I loved my CF1's so much I couldnt pass up a good deal on a set of CF2's. I know this thread is older than dirt but it seems this thread is my best chance on getting some knowledgable feedback on a rare and not well known set of meo magnets...I have TWO questions. I would appreciate some responses.

1.) After purchasing these speakers I visually verified they are version ones as the serial numbers are 213498417 and 418. (made the 213th day of 94) Measred the port tube and its 6 inches. Although there is only ONE port tube. When i looked up discontinued epic 2's here in klipsch archives the picture shows the CF2 with TWO port tubes, Can anyone explain that ?

2.) I have to do some refinishing work on the cabinets. Does anyone have experience matching Klipsch's black satin finish? I really need to redo the entire enclosures i give them a 5 out of 10 for cosmetics.. ( might need to go to another thread with this question)

Thanks guys..... Epics will never die..they will live for eternity!

I finally read this entire, informative thread on my speakers, thank you to all. It struck me that this user's speakers were manufactured the same day as mine, I think. My serial #'s for my CF-2's are: 213498379 & 213498380.

FYI: I am very satisfied with my CF-2's. I just heard Clifford Brown play the trumpet in my living room:)

[megarock]

have a dilemma, i have version 1 cf-4 no problem there, i also have another pair of cf-4 #'s(268954331) i'm thinking they are version 3's lighter woofers, 2.5 ports, the only thing is the network has the monster cable wire not the colored. i am not the original owner of these (2nd) so my ? is, is there a way to tell networks apart besides the wiring color.

I'm thinking they had left over clear coated wire and used that up first before going to colored wire, but would it be possible to have version 2 networks in a version 3 cabinet with lighter coned woofers?

i have heavy coned woofers to switch the lighter woofers out and longer ports to at least make version 2 speakers.

[Fizzlemizzle]

Try pressing on the woofers. There is a very noticable difference in stiffness between my KLF-20s and v1 CF-3s. Also, what are the first 4 digits of your serial?

[moray james]

Quote " Try pressing on the woofers. There is a very noticable difference in stiffness between my KLF-20s and v1 CF-3s"

Well you told him what to do but you did not tell him what to look for and how to interprit those findings. Best regards Moray James.

[kapsnb01]

Appears someone is parting out a CF3 (no word on which version, or a serial number), as the bay has a pair of woofers, a tweeter, and crossover on it. Just an FYI for anyone that may be looking for parts. Who knows if the seller has a clue as to the version though.

Bracing is done on my cabinets and I've got some temporary damping in right now. Plan to start testing to determine the permanent damping here this weekend. Very pleased with the results so far. Put everything back together and have been listening for the past few days and couldn't be happier. Noticeable difference in tightness of sound and clarity. Crossover refresh also was substantial improvement. All in all, couldn't be happier with the results on my CF3s!

[khornbred]

have you tested your improvements seperately? have you been able to listen to the braced cabinets without upgraded crossovers, or vice-versa?

[kapsnb01]

have you tested your improvements seperately? have you been able to listen to the braced cabinets without upgraded crossovers, or vice-versa?

No. The drawback to bracing the cabinets while the crossovers were sent out was that I wouldn't be able to test separately. For me anyway, it worked out as I'm pleased with the end result.

[ka7niq]

have you tested your improvements seperately? have you been able to listen to the braced cabinets without upgraded crossovers, or vice-versa?

This is why it is always best to only do one speaker at a time, so you can compare, and be sure your improvements, are really improvements!

My experience with upgrading speaker crossover capacitors is this, Poly Caps are the brightest, followed by Mylar, and then by Non Polar Electrolytics.

ERSE Audio www.erseaudio.com makes 2 different Non Polar Electrolytic Capacitors, one with more dielectric loss then the other. The MORE Lossy caps they sell make a speaker more "mellow" sounding. Poly Caps are the least lossy of all Caps, and also the brightest.

Many Horn Speaker lovers like paper in oil capacitors, for their mellow sound. They too are a very lossy capacitor.

I did many many crossover capacitor experiments, especially on some old Klipsch Original Forte's. The original Forte is bright sounding, not hard, just bright, and overly vivid and detailed. With several different brands of expensive poly caps, they got even brighter. Mylar mellowed them out, a little. But the ERSE Non Polar Electrolytics "tamed" them down even more.

This taught me something, that Poly Caps are not always the best choice for a bright sounding speaker. Unless, you want that bright sounding speaker to be even more bright sounding:)

But, if you have spent too many years in front of very efficient speakers, played very loudly for extended periods of time, and you have some age on you Grandpa, your hearing might be compromised ?

In that case, a bright speaker may sound right to you.

My good friend is a retired Fireman. He is 62 years old. He craves this bright sound, because of all his years on a Firetruck, exposed to loud Sirens.

Here is a link to the very linear, but higher loss ERSE Non Polar Electrolytic Capacitors http://www.erseaudio.com/Products/NonPolarElectrolytic10DF

In every bright speaker I have put them in, they sounded better to me then any other capacitor, except maybe very expensive Paper In Oil Capacitors.

I recently re did a pair of Cornwall II's that had the Solen Poly Caps in them. They sounded a tad bright and edgy with the Poly Caps, even when driven by Tube Amplifiers.

These very very inexpensive ERSE Caps smoothed them right out.

[kapsnb01]

This is why it is always best to only do one speaker at a time, so you can compare, and be sure your improvements, are really improvements!

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. No regrets on my end on the planning, research, and execution of my modifications. For me, the results are what matters and I am certainly happy with those.