Reference 7 vs. RF-83 system

[Jay481985]

[udson"]

It's not that I am not happy with them, I just don't feel as thrilled with them as I would like. Half the time I know the source is just not good (TV, some dvds). The setup shines with Blue Ray movies. But I find if I turn it up to enjoy, it's just a bit harsh, and the sound seems to change. I don't know if that's the receiver/settings, setup, or just my ears...or hey maybe it's the typical complaint of inherent "harshness" on Klipsch I never wanted to believe.

I think something is wrong sometimes when I listen to mp3 on my computer into my RF-83..... Then I pop the cd into my denon 2910 and then I go oh yeah its supposed to sound like this not, thin, flat, weak, compressed...... etc..... I actually started to buy more cds now due to the Klipsch.

When it sounds good, without going too loud, it really does sound good. When not, things just sound "thin", brittle, not enough mids, not smooth enough, and muddy sub action - which I admit I have not nearly played enough with.

I am virtually all about movies, btw. But I dig music at times, not to mention in movies.

P.S. If I want to sell, I guess here is a good place to start. Those Ultras sure do look nice.

I am outside of Grand Ledge, btw, in a hugely small town We just moved back from Florida. Brrrr.

[Zen Traveler]

I agree that your current issue will be solved with seperates... that said those of of with seperates never stop upgrading.....

I guess that is why I am so pleased with my THX Ultra II AVR Denon. []

That being said, I am interested in hearing a pair of RF-7's along with an RC-7 that had the Deang upgraded crossovers. [^o)]

[--udson]

What is the cross over thing about? Is there a thread about it?

[getech]

Just do a search on: Dean's Crossover.......but I'm afraid if you have to ask you may not appreicate what it can do for you. Subtle but quite effective reworking of your crossovers with better components than what Klipsch provides. Wonderful detail can be heard.

[skonopa]

You need to hear the RF-7s with separate amplification before you get rid of them...

-David

I fully 100% agree with this!

I am currently using a B&K Ref 200.7 with my RF-7s going on something like 4 years now and the damn thing STILL brings a huge smile whenever I turn it on! Especially if I feed it a good quality recording.

I've listened to the RF-83 and the Ultra II setup. If I was buying brand new, I would've gone with the RF-83s, for the simple fact I think they sounded better musically (as I use my setup listening to music much more then watching TV or movies). If I was setting up a purely movie oriented rig, the Ultra II's would be the pick.

That being said, as I already have the RF-7s, I did not feel they were any better or different to warn't the cost of an "upgrade" and in fact, going from the RF-7s to the RF-83s would seem more of a lateral move than an upgrade.

I think upgrading your amplification would be the prudent move. You'd be amazed at just how awesome these RF-7s can truly be when feed some good amplification.

[falcon20x]

I would have to agree with skonopa.

I have ran a stock RC 7 against a Dean modified RC 7 and

a RC 64, the result of the test were discussed in a different threat.

The 7 series and the new 83/ 64 line are

outstanding speakers. I think if you have the 7 series and feel like upgrading get

the Dean X-over upgrade, if you don't have them then go for the RF 83/ RC 64.

You

won't be disappointed with either choice but going from one line to the other

is indeed a lateral move.

[dcler]

I thought to chime in with a question. I just joint the Klipsch crowd with a RF35, RC-7, RS-35, RB-35 for HT, and 80-Khorns for stereo. I wonder if I should upgrade the cross-over for my Khorns, and if Dean's cross-over is the one to get, how much they go for and where to get them? Thanks

[Arky]

You're new to the forum so FYI; you can use the search function & literally get hundreds of posts concerning crossover upgrading/freshening. Lots of technical gurus on the forum who have exausted the topic.

[TNRabbit]

I would definitely invest in a new power system first, then see if you like what you hear before you drop major cash on crossovers.

While Denon makes probably one of the most versatile processor sections in a receiver, the Sunfire Ultimate Receiver amplifier (200 REAL wpc) beats the crap out of the Denon. You can pick up a perfectly good Sunfire UR for under $2k; don't waste your money on a new one at three times that price. They are incredible & bulletproof. I have both the UR and the Sunfire Theater Grand IV processor mated with a Sunfire 400x7 Signature. The UR isn't far behind the separates in sound & has almost the exact same processor. These units have WORLD CLASS sound at fractions of what their overpriced competitors charge for only SLIGHTLY better sound.

An example of bulletproof: I shipped a Sunfire 300x2 amplifier via UPS and they put a forklift tine THROUGH the side of the amp. It still worked like a champ with no noticeable effect on the amplifier.

[--udson]

Thanks for all the advice. If I go separates only, I am going to want all the latest like HDMI 1.3a and the new decoding stuff. So it's not just about power. There are other reasons to upgrade.

Where can I go to start learning about separates? I can't seem to find good sources of info. Random reviews are just a spewing of techno-verbiage. I need to know the basics, and then be able to establish a list of brands, models, and get a budget in order.

[Jay481985]

thats the reason why most people buy receivers. they go huh when you try and explain why you have a pre amp and a pro amp... they say, doesn't a receiver do the same thing.... at that point you have to say well yeah....... but there is a difference. Then they just go walk away

[--udson]

It's hard to know it all when you've got a real life going on with work, wife and kids... so yeah, receivers are a hell of a lot easier.

[Arky]

Search this forum for "separates". I'm heading out the door but very very basically a receiver has to share it's power supply with it's internal amplification, processor etc. A separate amplifier & processor will sound better because they are dedicated to their specific task, thus will sound cleaner & have more power left in reserve for wide dynamic ranges etc.

Don't know you're budget but look at Outlaw Audio, Sunfire & Rotel as a start.

[Zen Traveler]

I understand where you are coming from with life getting in the way of hobby and I think you are on the right track. [Y]

Along with the link I provided earlier, I have posed the same question in different ways over the years. I have scoured through the thoughtful recommendations on this thread and if you need/want video and audio to go through HDMI I would stick with an AVR instead of going separates--That could get expensive.

If dkp is offering to let you connect one of his 2 channel amps to your Yammi and help you with the logistics that would be one way of seeing what more power can do for your RF-7's and letting the RXV 2500 drive the other speakers. This won't address the HDMI issue but if you like the sound, you could get a cheaper HDMI AVR and pair it with a 2 channel setup of your own.

The Sunfire amp also won't address the HDMI issue but will be better than what you own for multi channel sound. Fwiw, I don't think the Sunfire amp will "trounce" my Denon AVR 4806, but can't argue that it won't give you more headroom at extremely loud volume, which you may or may not need depending on your room.

[--udson]

Thanks Arky and tkd.

Tkd, I will look at the Denon. I wonder if the new Yammy is worth looking at too - the 3800. A review of the 2700 stated it was warmer than previous models, so maybe I would like it more than my old 2500.

If there's one thing I worry about with Denon it's the interface. I saw my brothers a couple of years ago, and it was basically just text, and very non-user-friendly.

[--udson]

Here's a pic of the room, accurately measured. You can see the room is very long. There is an inset (left in pic) that was built for a wood burning stove. It is raised 15 inches off the ground is as a nice area for the display. As you can see, the room opens up to the left of the setup. It contains various things like computer desk where I work from, component rack, etc.

[dkp]

[udson"]

David, that is super generous. I would love to do that. I live 20 miles off 96 though. Maybe we could arrange a weekend sometime. I'd need help from you anyway in getting things set up I imagine. We can talk about this in PM if you want.

Gonna have to research seperates...never had anything but a receiver.

I'll try to get you a PM today.

-David

[schwock5]

The new denon's have an updated graphical user interface. (all recievers from a few years ago were text only, a few now are making the leap to graphics like sony's x media bar, and onkyo's has one too i believe)

i think the Denon models 2808 up (3808 and 4308) have the graphical user interface.

and it's 2,3, and 4 HDMI inputs respectively.

i have the 4308. it's a beast. (retail is $2,500, i got it for $2,000) though for the money, you can get the 3808 for a good price (i think like 1,250) and spend the $1,000 difference on a great 2x200 watt per channel amp from maybe rotel or outlaw or emotiva.

you'll lose 1 HDMI input and wireless ethernet to wired going from the 4308 to the 3808. (not a big deal i don't think)

also i tihnk the 4308 has AL24 processing on all channels vs AL24 on just the fronts or something for the 3808. you can check other forums and denon.com for the details.

i always recommend denon, i love em. i heard the new onkyo's run very hot = less life span and more potential problems. and haven't used a sony since way back in the day which was a low-mid reciever and sounded very tinny, but a lot's changed since then and i hear the new ones give a lot of bang for the buck.

[Fish]

Don't forget,in all the debate over avr vs. separates,the main factor in what you hear from the speakers you have is in the preamp section,imo.This is assuming you have a good source and any decent amp at all,it's also why many enjoy great sound with little power(although I suggest all the power one can afford.The pre/pro can make or brake any set,even with a rock solid amp.I have found that separates excell mostly due to a premium preamp section.I've owned many amps,there is some small differences,nothing like the huge differences in prepro sections.The avr's I've owned since using separate amps(big list) were in prepro/zone capacity only,the prepro section in all avrs sounded different on the same amps,same as separate prepros.Since owning just about every major brands mid/upper models I can tell you,separates do sound superior,avr's do offer the latest tech for less.

[dkp]

Sorry no PM yet. My schedule was altered on Friday. I will now be heading through town more like late morning on Wednesday and back in the evening, although a bit earlier. Let me know if you will be around and which amp(s) you would like to mess around with.

-David