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TUBE VS.SOLID


tim3

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Can someone please tell me the difference between tube amps and solid state.I've never known anyone who has owned a tube.In fact,I've never seen a tube amp in person.I do think they look cool though.I noticed that the tube amps have lower wpc.One I saw on auction was only 12 wpc.There must be a different way they calculate wpc between the 2.Can someone enlighten me on that.Most important,which is better and why.What I look for in an amp is pure power.I'm mostly a R&R guy.I run a bryston 4b at 250 wpc and have Cornwalls,but that's not quite enough for me.So I'm looking for another bryston 4b,soI can bridge them.I think this will give me more than I need.I really would like to know the major pros and cons of each,and after telling you what I like,is tubes for me and how many wpc do I need to be happy.Thanks for your time!Tim

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250 or 500W power should be the least thing you worry about. Low distortion and a good match for the Cornwalls are way more important.

This forum has all the information you need. Maybe you could hold off on any amp purchases until you've had a chance to invest some time exploring the threads about Cornwalls, tubes, solid state, sound levels, sound quality, etc.

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I am no PRO like many on here are, and I never knew my Stereo Sucked, until I joined this forum.[:$]. but one lesson I have learned here, It's the quality of the watt, not the quanity of watts. Without alot of technical talk, I'll let others do that, my 20 watt per channel Scott intergrated amp puts most 100 to 125 watt per channel Solid State units to shame. The biggest difference that my tired old ears hear is in the Bottom end, much more bottom from Tubes. The High end, I hear no difference, but that could be because of my tired old ears, and it doesn't end there. Many here like low wattage SET amps with Klipsch speakers, but the ones I have heard, lack bottom ................Mega watts of Solid state will produce wicked bottom end ........ I would do what pauln writes, sit back, watch the threads for awhile, alot of information to be had here, then go from there. Better yet, see if you can find someone local that has Tubes, and go listen to them, decide for yourself. These members are more than willing to give you a listen, EGO MANICS that they are, they like showing off their gear, and you'll probably meet some good folks. That's what I did, traveled to a members home, listened to K-horns, and a SET amp, but when I left, I stole his silverware, don't do that .................

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<< Can someone enlighten me on that.Most important,which is better and
why.What I look for in an amp is pure power.I'm mostly a R&R guy.I
run a bryston 4b at 250 wpc and have Cornwalls,but that's not quite
enough for me.So I'm looking for another bryston 4b,soI can bridge
them.I think this will give me more than I need.I really would like to
know the major pros and cons of each,and after telling you what I
like,is tubes for me and how many wpc do I need to be happy.Thanks for
your time!>>

Thirty years ago I went from Cornwalls to Klipschorns. In the process, I got rid of the "space heater" amplifiers just like you and went to 35 watts per channel tubes. SS has been as good or better than tubes in many ways in modern times (after Matti Otala's discovery of the bugs).

So, if your goal is to improve the SOUND, spend the money on Khorns rather than watts, which is a dead end propositions with ever higher distortion in the process. PWK says the higher the power the higher the distortion because of digapraghm movement. With the power you suggest, you can use the Cornwall bass section as a fan. Also the woofer is only rated to 100 W so you'd better invest in a fire extinguisher too if you don't heed my advice.

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Part of me is just tempted to say - Go for it!! - whatever lights your candle.

However - just a few points:

  1. How loud a system will play is a function of the power of the amplifier and the sensitivity of the speakers. Lower sensitivity speakers require more power to play at a given volume. Obviously there are limits to how much power you can really pump into a speaker (before you melt the coils).
  2. Watts are watts - they are measured in the same way for tube amps and solid state amps. Some tube "amps" are even lower than the ones you have seen - 3.5 watts - even 1.5 watts. With very sensitive speakers this probably doesnt matter much - but it will ultimately limit the volume you can listen to - before coil melting does.
  3. Power has to double for an increase of just 3 dB under normal conditions. In your case, therefore, bridging 2 amps would yield a 3 dB increase in maximum volume (if your speakers can take it).

I cannot recall the sensitivity rating for the Cornwall off-hand - but it is somewhere around 100 dB/w/m. That means that at a distance of 1 meter with 1 watt pumping into the speakers you will get 100 dB of sound.

2 watts - 103 dB

4 - 106

8 - 109

16 - 112

32 - 115

Etc. etc.

As you can see from the above even with 32 watts you are getting pretty loud (permanent ear damage in about 30 minutes of constant exposure).

Now assuming your listening position is not 1 meter from the speakers there will be some loses from these numbers (although there are also gains to be had from the fact that you are presumably listening to 2 or more speakers).

All in all then - unless you have a truely cavernous room and listen from well back you shouldn't ever need the 250 watts you already have.

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I agree with the prior comments.

If it were me, I'd move up the speaker ladder. Using Max's chart, if you moved up to say... 109 db/w then

1 watt = 109 db

2 = 112

4 = 115

8 = 118

16 = 121

32 = 125

So now, at 32 watts (just using it as an example) you're at 125 db's and your amps are still "coasting" in their power band instead of having to pump all their power out.

I'll use the analogy of old muscle cars.

An old muscle car can keep the car moving at say, 100 mph with "x" amount of effort. Swap now, to say, a Honda Accord and (presuming it will reach 100 mph) it's going to be using more of its available power to maintain the speed. Point being, having the smaller 4 cylinder engine pushing the car at 100 mph is a bigger stress on it than the 455 cubic inch monster engine, pushing the muscle car. The muscle car is maybe running at 50% with more room to go (head room for the amp)

Just for kicks... keep the same analogy above, then all the sudden, add a trailer hitch & trailer loaded with say, 1,000 pounds in it. The muscle car might still be able to maintain 100 mph (not saying it's safe) but the Honda will now poop out at maybe, 70 mph and go no faster because of the extra load.

So, all that to say, buy some more efficient speakers and enjoy.

[:D]

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I would like to hear a pair of Cornwalls playing at 250 watts......well actually not...I'd rather be wearing double ear plugs and be there to observe how long it would take to smoke all the drivers...of course...I don't have a way of timing down in milliseconds.

A few post I have have been replying to also introduce the notion of distortion. My memory does not work to well during happy hour, but i think the distortion rate goes over 4% as you pass 115DB's. And actually, I have a klipsch document that shows human hearing ending at 125db's. It just sounds like a waterfall.

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To the last to posts.Not everyone listens to Swan lake or Boxcar Willy.Let your hair down once in a while.Get a bottle of some good teqeila,put on some Hendrix or Motor head and crank it up!!!Good for what ales ya.

Not the most educated comment. I recommend reading old posts. Many quality contributors to this forum have thousands of hours (or tens of thousands) of hours invested in audio listening and hundreds of hours on this forum.

DEANG listens to harder rock in many cases than my SRV, Clapton or Grungy Old Neil obsessions.

Many here get by on less than 40 watts and some get by on less than 8 watts. I am not an small watt guy but have heard a fine 300 B tube amp in my listening.

I will be bring home from my next trip south of the border a litre of Don Julio reposado for my Christmas listening.[;)]

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