Home Theatre guru's

[h00kemh0rns]

I have a dedicated media room in my new home. It's wired for 7.1 and the dimensions are 14 x 16. To boot I have a 60% discount where I work to get Klipsch speakers. My budget is around 2-2500 for speakers. I have no other components yet so it's a clean slate. What are the suggestions to get for this room to give me the most bang for the buck?

[wuzzzer]

http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-63-home-theater-system.aspx

[h00kemh0rns]

So you don't think I should go 7.1 and not get speakers for the rear? If I did would I just get a couple more RS-62's?

This setup would have me at 2117.60 (no tax or shipping charges)

[Bill H.]

I'd first try that setup, without the rear speakers. See if you enjoy it. Then later, if you just have to have them......go for it. Try it, you'll like it!

[Arky]

I would classify 14 x 16 as a medium sized room. In some environments, I have found implementing too many spks causes the sound to be congested, sort of like they're fighting for their own space. I agree with these guys, try 5 first & go from there. If you don't want to pass up your deal, one option would be to buy an additional set of mains for a second system & if you decide you need them in your media room, add them. A guy named Dr Who will be along at some point with a much better answer most likely.

Welcome to the forum.

[h00kemh0rns]

I'm guessing most are right with sticking to the 5.1 system. There is such a thing as overkill and really no need to stop my heart when watching the opening scenes of say Saving Private Ryan [H] I'll probably look at getting some more speakers for the living room setup to go with my flat panel.

[damonrpayne]

I think the THX way to do it would be to have a pair of LCR type speakers for the rear surrounds. If you're building a new home theater I'd say look into the HD optical formats (hd-dvd and blu-ray) as some of those actually have soundtracks with discrete channels for the rear.

[TNRabbit]

I agree with all the recommendations and add that you can always add the surround back channels at a later date. I have 7.1, and it doesn't really add much. Maybe in the future, but there just isn't much out there now to even take advantage.

[Steve_L]

Buy the best 5.1 speakers you possibly can afford. 99.% is 5.1 DTS or Digital Dolby. There is a little 6.1 discreet out there but I believe (and I haven't followed the technology as closely as many out here) all of the 7.1 is "derived" from the other channels.

[Frzninvt]

What you guys are failing to grasp is most receiver's and AV Pre/Pro's upconvert the 5.1 signals of DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 to DD-EX 7.1 and DTS-ES 7.1 or just Matrix Stereo 7.1. My NAD T163 sure does and I take full advantage of it, as well as it's dual dedicated subwoofer outputs.

Many of the movies that I am buying these days make full use of my rear effects/center speakers so those of you that think 5.1 is good enough are only cheating yourself out of a more realistic experience. SW EPIII has tons of rear effect information so does "The Incredibles" and countless others.

I would buy the additional matching surrounds now while they are still available, never know when they may be discontinued then you have to hunt for a pair.

How many theaters have you been to that have a single set of rear surrounds? Nuff said.

[Catharsis147]

I would also agree with getting the extra rears. Case in point: Started out with a pair of RB-75's for my dream home theater, got a second set, then right at the VERY end of the discontinued 7 series line, I jumped on a pair of RF-7's and could NOT be happier. Now I have all 7's, all the time. Don't miss out, especially if and when the format war ends (I don't think either side will win, personally), I am pretty sure that DTS and Dolby will utilize more than just the standard 5.1 and go to at least 7.1. Granted, you will still have a few years on Reference IV before they replace them, but you still never really know....

[Steve_L]

I think I was try to say the same thing as what you said in paragraph 1 above, except I wasn't suggesting it was a real important point. Isn't it more of an "effects" type of thing as opposed to being a discreet signal engineered by the recording engineers?

What are the existing formats supporting 6.1 and 7.1 discreet? Do both DTS and Digital Dolby support 6.1 discreet? What about 7.1 discreet? I'm just asking as I haven't followed this as closely as others may have.

[Frzninvt]

Currently DD-EX, DTS-ES, Dolby PLIIx, newer formats DTS-HD and True Dolby Digital playback in 6.1 and 7.1. You can playback the DVD-HD and Blue-Ray formats if your receiver or preamp has 7.1 analog inputs if it isn't True Dolby Digital or DTS-HD ready since it is decoded by the player. The Superbit versions of movies are in the DTS-ES formats the Fifth Element is as are the 10th Anniversary Editions of Pixar's Toy Story & Toy Story 2. The opening scene of Toy Story 2 will surprise you!

There is alot more information back there than most people think the most recent movie that comes to mind is "Live Free and Die Hard" man did my system get a workout. I could feel the intensity of the machine gun fire in my chest and from different directions as the helicopter changed positions.

The two additionals speakers are worth it to me I playback all 7 channels all the time no matter the source analog or digital. The recently re-released original Star Wars trilogy makes heavy use of the rear surrounds in it's DD-EX format.

[h00kemh0rns]

5.1 at $2100 or 7.1 at $2500...

So there are two camps of thought, $400 delta, and loads of doubt from me. Wish I could test both prior to buying.

[Steve_L]

I think what you're hearing is that if you've got the money and you've got the room than do it, as it improves the experience. Sounds to me like it is especially helpful for movies.

I didn't do it originally due to WAF (wife acceptance factor) and budget. So I went with 5.1 and have always been very pleased with the sound in my 13X23 foot cathedral ceilinged room.

Digital cable systems today and almost all Hi-def TV are supporting Dolby Digital 5.1. Almost all of the new movies are at least DD5.1 and many are either/or DD5.1 or DTS5.1 and now many are coming out with the extended surround formats.

I wiki'd the format question I had earlier and got a clear answer to the question I posed regarding discrete channels. See attached, cut and pasted from Wikipedia

5.1 Channel Surround (analog matrixed: Dolby Pro Logic II)

Extracts 5 audio channels from either a specially encoded two-channel or a stereo source:

• Two channels for speakers at the front - left (L) and right ®.
• One channel for speaker at the center - center ©.
• Two channels for surround speakers at the rear - surround left (LS) and surround right (RS).
• One low-frequency effects channel (LFE).
• Describes the Dolby Pro Logic II matrixed surround system. Source media is often branded with "Pro Logic II" logo.
• Surround sound speaker placement: (6 speaker channels in total) surround sound speaker placement is different for both music and movie content.

For music, speakers should be placed closest to the left and right of the listening position, close to that of the 6.1 surround speakers.

For movie surround, the front speakers should be placed at the edges of the screen, toed in to face the central listening location, and the tweeters should be ear height. The center speaker should be placed behind the screen (when using projection) or over or under a TV, and as close to ear height as possible. Rear channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, slightly behind the listening position, and should have a normal high-quality monopolar construction.

[edit] 5.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital, DTS, SDDS)

Delivers 5 discrete audio channels and 1 LFE channel from a 6 channel source:

• Two channels for speakers at the front - left (L) and right ®.
• One channel for speaker at the center - center ©.
• Two channels for surround speakers at the rear - surround left (LS) and surround right (RS).
• One low-frequency effects channel (LFE).
• Describes the Dolby Digital, Digital Theater System (DTS), and Sony Dynamic Digital Sound (SDDS) systems. Source media, usually DVD and sometimes Laser Disc or satellite/digital cable is often branded with "Dolby Digital" and/or DTS logos.
• DTS uses a higher sampling rate than Dolby Digital, thus DTS uses less compression and achieves higher fidelity than Dolby Digital.
• Surround Sound speaker placement: (6 speaker channels in total) Surround Sound speaker placement is different for both music and movie content.

For music, speakers are placed in a circle around the listener. The center channel has 0º offset, left and right are offset ± 30º, and the left/right surrounds are offset by ±110º. Also all speakers should be monopole, equidistant to the listener, and all delay (ms) calculations on the surround decoder should be turned off (0 ms).

For movie surround, the front speakers should be placed at the edges of the screen, toed in to face the central listening location, and the tweeters should be ear height. The center speaker should be placed behind the screen (when using projection) or over or under a TV, and as close to ear height as possible. Rear channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, slightly behind the listening position, and should have a normal high-quality monopolar construction.

[edit] 6.1 Channel Surround (analog matrixed: Dolby Pro Logic IIx)

Extracts 6 audio channels and 1 low-frequency channel from either a specially encoded two-channel or a stereo source:

• Two channels for speakers at the front - left (L) and right ®.
• One channel for speaker at the center - center ©.
• Two channels for surround speakers at the sides - side left (LS) and side right (RS).
• One channel for surround speakers at the rear - back surround channel (BS).
• One low-frequency channel to drive a sub-woofer.
• Describes the Dolby Pro Logic IIx matrixed surround system. Source media is the same as both Dolby Pro Logic and Dolby Pro Logic II.
• Surround Sound speaker placement: (7 speakers in total) surround sound speaker placement is different for both music and movie content.

For music, speakers placement is best as shown in the diagram, tweeters should be pointed closest to the listening position.

For movie surround, the front speakers should be placed at the edges of the screen, toed in to face the central listening location, and the tweeters should be ear height. The center speaker should be placed behind the screen (when using projection) or over or under a TV, and as close to ear height as possible. Side channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, to the left and right of the listening position, equidistant from the front speakers and the rear speakers. Rear channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, slightly behind the listening position, and should have a normal high-quality monopolar construction.

[edit] 6.1 Channel Surround (digital partially discrete: Dolby Digital EX)

Delivers 5 audio channels, 1 extracted audio channel and 1 LFE channel from a 6 channel source:

• Two discrete channels for speakers at the front - left (L) and right ®.
• One discrete channel for speaker at the center - center ©.
• Two channels for surround speakers at the sides - left surround (LS) and right surround (RS). The discrete LS and RS channels are dematrixed into LS, RS, and back surround (BS).
• One channel for surround speakers at the rear - back surround channel (BS).
• One low-frequency effects channel (LFE).
• Describes the Dolby Digital EX discrete/matrixed hybrid Surround system. Source media, usually DVD is often branded with "Dolby Digital EX" logo. This format is used in some theatrical motion picture films.
• Surround Sound speaker placement: (7 speaker channels in total) Surround Sound speaker placement is different for both music and movie content.

For music, speaker placement is unknown

For movie surround, the front speakers should be placed at the edges of the screen, toed in to face the central listening location, and the tweeters should be ear height. The center speaker should be placed behind the screen (when using projection) or over or under a TV, and as close to ear height as possible. Side channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, to the left and right of the listening position, equidistant from the front speakers and the rear speakers. Rear channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, slightly behind the listening position, and should have a normal high-quality monopolar construction.

[edit] 6.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: DTS-ES)

Delivers 6 discrete audio channels and 1 LFE channel from a 7 channel source:

• Two channels for speakers at the front - left (L) and right ®.
• One channel for speaker at the center - center ©.
• Two channels for surround speakers at the sides - side left (LS) and side right (RS).
• One channel for surround speakers at the rear - back surround channel (BS).
• One low-frequency effects channel (LFE).
• Describes the DTS ES discrete Surround system. Source media, usually DVD is often branded with "DTS ES" logo. In theatrical motion picture film, this format does not exist, and the name "DTS-ES" refers to the above hybrid format used for Dolby Digital EX.
• Surround Sound speaker placement: (7 speaker channels in total) Surround Sound speaker placement is different for both music and movie content.

For music, speakers placement is unknown

For movie surround, the front speakers should be placed at the edges of the screen, toed in to face the central listening location, and the tweeters should be ear height. The center speaker should be placed behind the screen (when using projection) or over or under a TV, and as close to ear height as possible. Side channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, to the left and right of the listening position, equidistant from the front speakers and the rear speakers. Rear channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, slightly behind the listening position, and should have a normal high-quality monopolar construction.

[edit] 7.1 Channel Surround (digital discrete: Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-HD, Dolby Digital True HD)

Delivers 7 audio channels and 1 LFE channel from an 8 channel source:

• Two channels for speakers at the front - left (L_F) and right (R_F).
• One channel for speaker at the center - center ©.
• Two channels for surround speakers at the sides^{[citation needed]} - side left (L) and side right ®.

• Two channels for surround speakers at the rear - surround left (LS) and surround right (RS).
• One low-frequency effects channel (LFE).
• Describes the Dolby Digital Plus discrete Surround system. Source media, usually HD DVD and sometimes Blu-Ray is often branded with "Dolby Digital Plus" and/or "DTS-HD" logos.
• Surround Sound speaker placement: (8 speaker channels in total) Surround Sound speaker placement is different for both music and movie content.

For music, speaker placement is unknown.

For movie surround, the front speakers should be placed at the edges of the screen, toed in to face the central listening location, and the tweeters should be ear height. The center speaker should be placed behind the screen (when using projection) or over or under a TV, and as close to ear height as possible. Side channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, to the left and right of the listening position, equidistant from the front speakers and the rear speakers. Rear channel speakers should be placed high on side walls, slightly behind the listening position, and should have a normal high-quality monopolar construction.

[h00kemh0rns]

Made my choice...another $400 to get 7.1 is worth the try. Worse case it's overkill and I sell the two extra speakers or use them for another room.

[Arky]

There you go.