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What would it take to get you to go SS again?


Audio Flynn

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........And I know that many of them really DO hear the diff between gritty old SS gear and tube gear even if they don't have the wordy explanations for their preferences.

No surprise here about the ladies liking tube audio over thier SS counterparts. I've got a few ladies in my neighborhood who have not only approved the upgrades from more "simple to own" and less expensive gears - but are LIKING the results once those upgrades have been done. It doesn't stop there either - they are appreciating things like cap upgrades and tube rolling too.....which in turn gets them asking questions and becoming more involved in the overall system direction making process. It's very cool to have them actively involved and enjoying all of this - it's not just MY toys, it's OUR (me and my wife's) toys!!

And believe me when I say this - if there were no noticeable improvements, they would sure as hello would let us males know about that.

Makes me wish I was back in the biz.....selling all of those ladies (with the uber sensitive high frequency hearing) tube gear would be like taking candy (read CASH) from a baby while they smile all throughout the process.

For those of you pining for tube gear that have ladies who like music, it's MUCH easier than you think to get them addicted to all of this.

Another great story - - wow, so you got the neighbor ladies interested in high end audio????? I must be living in a shoe! I need to think about this - this is interesting news to me. I mean, I know MY wife would prefer tubes, but you know, that's like shootin' fish in barrel. I have to tell you though - you are straining credibility telling me the ladies are interested in CAPS!!! What a riot.

The ladies in question are the wives of those I have addicted out here.

One reason this all "works" is that the ladies listen to the gear about as much as we do. Maybe not in the same way, or with the same POV , knowhow, or geeky interest, but they have come to know the benefits of these changes nevertheless. I like to make a change without them in the house, then let them do the talking as to any perceived changes that have been made. A VERY large percentage of those changes are "detectable" by our female "lab mice"[A] I am continually amazed at what they CAN hear. They aren't trained audiophiles, but they do listen.....and it is further proof to me that these upgrades can be substantial.

Three biggest upgrades commented on:

- The change from BEC issued rebuilt networks to V-Cap loaded networks, both in B (Cornwall) and AA (Belle) formulas

- Upgrading from standard Sonicaps to the Platinum version, in two different amps (VRDs and MC30s)

- Rolling 6L6s out of the MC-30s to the GEC KT66 (this one REALLY brought down the house).

One of these couples owns a Peach and loves it. Wouldn't have been possible without bringing her along!

The ladies may not lay awake out of dreams of 1950s vintage Amperex 12AX7s with D getters like I do, but they appreciate the benefits anyhow.

Oh, and regarding Ferndale. WOW is that one beeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuutiful place. Like out of postcards. Went through there on two separate occasions going to Cape Mendocino....didn't know Mark lived out there at that time, or of course I would have stopped by and said hi......

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Where did she slink off to?

Mark,

I have no clue what has become of her. I talked to her briefly a few months back and got the impression some other things in her life have been keeping her side tracked from her audio system...heck I wrote her a refund check for some capacitors like 6 or 8 months ago and she still hasn't cashed it..

Craig

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I've been wondering about meagain, too, and hoping she is doing o.k.

This week I did get a UPS from her as she was returning my super T-amp.

As far as the question in the thread, for what's out there now in quality as it relates to my budget, nothing would get me to go back to SS entirely. I am happy enough with the sound of the tripath to use it in a second system and sometimes in the primary. The primary does not have Khorns after moving in to a small house, but not fussing, the Heresy's sound really good.

If I went back to the old Advents, it wouldn't make much difference what was the amp.

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Anyway - why were all that audiophiles fooled into thinking I had a tube amp?

The first is that sonically it does sound rather like a tube amp - I think this is why I stuck with it. There is no obivous grain, it performs reasonably well at low volumes and with a sub handling the lower reaches no-one would expect the reduced bass to being with.

That's what I remembered you posting previously about your amp. I noticed you always qualify "with a tube preamp." I think the right comparison is just an SS stack vs. a tube stack. Once you put a tube preamp in front, you've already improved any of the amps to follow! Big Smile

I do always put that in and until recently I was fairly sure that the action of the pre-amp was, to an extent masking any nasties that might be coming from the amp. Now I am not so sure - and it is not what Dean wrote which made me re-think.

Last Sunday, I think, I went to a guy's house who has Tannoy GKF speakers. Corner loaded dual concentric drivers - large. Nice sound. We went there to hear his new Jardis amps (expensive). We listened and we liked. He was running them straight off a rather strange passice pre-amp from Creek that was powered to allow the use of a remote control. The passive pre was not expensive.

At some point he suggested we listen to his original Quad 303 amp that he bought back in 1981 and has recently had serviced (caps changed and all that).

Now remember this is an SS amp - about 40 wpc if memory serves mated to a passive (ish) pre.

I was expecting to be underwhelmed. I was not. Simply put - it blew the Jardis out of the window. I had thought the Jardis sounded good but the second this thing started to play it was like going from a recording to a live event. Funny thing happened during the playback. He played one of the Pink Floyd albums (Wish you were here) and Tony started to sing along with the Jardis in place. Tony actually has quite a good voice but it was very much a guy singing to a recording. When we switched to the Quad however and Tony again started to sing it was much more like Tony singing with the band. Tonally the Quad knocked spots off the Jardis.

We then re-played everything we had heard on the Jardis and frankly it was night and day. I couldn't believe it.

Now I am starting to question whether the tube pre-amp is actually necessary after all - something I have held as a rule till now.

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One of my favorite things about tube amps is the option to tube roll to dial in the sound. This is in no way an option with SS. What you hear is what you got. I just rolled some NOS 1960 12AT7 Mullard tubes in the preamp section of my amp and the improvements are stunning. The tubes were from Brent Jesse and are everything he described. I have ordered "NOS" tubes from other sellers only to be disappointed but these appear to be the real deal. Today my Valve Art 350Bs arrive. WOOOHOO.

IMG_0423.jpg

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Those are sweeeeeet! Whad'ja pay for those?

Brent is a great guy. I send all my tube buyers to him.

I always call and talk to him before buying tubes. He said this was a big batch he purchased that was sitting at a radar installation. I got a matched pair for $95. You can get better priced 12AT7s than 12AX7 which also lowered my gain abit but it was needed. The 12AX7 market is completely WHACK.

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One of my favorite things about tube amps is the option to tube roll to dial in the sound. This is in no way an option with SS. What you hear is what you got. I just rolled some NOS 1960 12AT7 Mullard tubes in the preamp section of my amp and the improvements are stunning. The tubes were from Brent Jesse and are everything he described. I have ordered "NOS" tubes from other sellers only to be disappointed but these appear to be the real deal. Today my Valve Art 350Bs arrive. WOOOHOO.

 

IMG_0423.jpg

I have seen this thread and have avoided participating because I did switch back to SS from tubes. Seti's comment here rather sums up one reason why. The performance of a tube system is dependent on the caliber and the match of the tubes. The notion that a tube amps performance can be so dramatically altered by changing a single tube works on the premise that its performance was lacking in the first place. Manufacturers do not sell their products with the finest tubes for their ideal performance. It becomes incumbent on the user to learn, locate, purchase and install these tubes and good tubes are not cheap tubes. The same works for other tube based products as well. Jolidas vaunted 100 CD player comes with stock tubes and its performance is greatly improved with upgraded Sylvania tubes. If something sold as great is not as great as possible in the 1st place then the buyer is being short changed. They are sold as tube platforms and the buyer then needs the knowledge and the where with all to complete the package. Not my cup of tea.

I ended up getting an Accuphase E530 integrated SS and have not looked back or regretted it from day one. It is a class "A" 30 WPC device whose performance I would stack against any tube system (IMHO). I have obtained a vintage Scott 299 to drive a second system I have yet to complete.

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Oscarsear,

I do agree with you...mostly. The other side of the coin is that SS sound can't be tuned or changed for the better. An ok SS amp could be made much better just by swapping some parts to tune the sound but you'll never know. SolidState manufacturers have more control over the sound because it will have one sound that doesn't change or vary. I think my tube integrated sounded great before I swapped tubes but I got a major upgrade just for swapping tubes. To me this is a strength. I definately see your point of view though. It does take research to learn about tubes and what you can roll or change but that is the fun part for me. Many are the paths to audio nirvana.

Thanks for posting.

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Nice one Oscar - the Accuphase E530 right on queue.

One of them thar solid state amps I had in mind to show to die hard tubies. Its a shock people....t'aint cheap - but by god it is a match for Klipsch.....

the Quad 303 would be an alternative amp at a MUCH more reasonable budget.

As regards tube-rolling - yup - no reall SS equivalent and to be honest I miss it. Only the other day I gave away my last set of 6550's to a friend. Irritatingly my pre-amp uses 6N1P tubes and there aint a lot of options there either. I have Sovteks and Svetlanas - wow - what a selection!!

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I also have both bought and sold tubes from/to Brent. Great guy.

Speaking of synergy......I borrowed Craig's Eico HF85 tube preamp, rebuilt and loaded with mullards (used to be Mr. Parrot's) to use with the "Louis Erath" system in my den. It was mated with a CM Labs 60wpc SS amp. Craig sold the pre to Dhar who picked it up on Sunday. This forced me to hook back up the CD player directly to the amp which has volume controls on the back. Holy cow! The sound improvement was staggering. It digs much deeper with no muddiness and is much clearer sounding and detailed from top to bottom. I had forgotten how good that system could sound. It is a fine preamp, just not a good match.

In this case, SS alone sounds better but it doesn't come close to either of my all-tube systems. Not close by a long shot.

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Gary,

The HF85 has a common cathode 12AX7 on the output and pretty small caps (no cathode follower). This would not be the sort of rig that you could expect to mate well with a SS amp. The output impedance is way too high and the caps are way too small. Probably accounts for the "muddy sound and no bottom." The HF85 into a Hi Z tube amp would be a better mashup.

Mark,

I'm sure whatever you just said is the absolute truth! I just have no idea what a cathode follower is or what high output impedance affects (please don't try to explain further - in my case, ignorance is bliss).[:^)]

In any case, it is now mated with its brother, the Eico HF87 amp I believe and I'm sure Dhar is enjoying it more than I did, small caps and all.[<:o)]

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what would it take to get me back to SS? either a Krell FBP or new Levinson amp, both sounded great in my system when they were brought over for a shootout with my friends. But until someone gives one of those to me I am quite happy with my system as it is. BTW my SS preamp sounded really great after I had it worked on by some techs and had key caps a resistors replaced! regards, tony

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