La Scala Bass Mod - again

[ClaudeJ1]

15 hours ago, billybob said:

Dang...Tang!

Wish could get competing opinions here.

Guess bass is controversial as...lol.

LOL. No competition here. This is America and everyone is entitled to their own ridiculous opinions, even me!

[ClaudeJ1]

On 10/11/2021 at 1:12 AM, Limberpine said:

Yeah, I talked with Claude and he suggested that I build a Bill Fitzmaurice THTLP and call it good, which I may do just for fun anyways. 

Only the brave survive the Big Bass TESTS!

[Limberpine]

7 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Only the brave survive the Big Bass TESTS!

So the question I have is while the THLP creates big bass, I’m using this for music only listening, so I’m really trying to hear all of the music instead of trying to feel a big amount of bass hit me and shake the whole house. Will the THLP do the former, the latter or both? 

[Deang]

I do miss the passion and energy of these old threads. 
 

Never was much of a bass freak, and like the LaScala just as it is. They work very well in modest sized rooms with two good corners (of course).

[ClaudeJ1]

32 minutes ago, Deang said:

I do miss the passion and energy of these old threads. 
 

Never was much of a bass freak, and like the LaScala just as it is. They work very well in modest sized rooms with two good corners (of course).

Since they are, essentially, a 2 1/2 foot horn, vs. a 5 ft. horn for the commercial Jubilee Bin, they both sorta limp across the finish line as short and medium bass horns in the open, effectively, and benefit GREATLY from room corner loading. My Edgar Titan II's are 3 foot Straight Axis horns (what I always wanted) only to 90 Hz. but work down to 60 Hz. in corners. PWK was right all along!!!

[ClaudeJ1]

56 minutes ago, Limberpine said:

So the question I have is while the THLP creates big bass, I’m using this for music only listening, so I’m really trying to hear all of the music instead of trying to feel a big amount of bass hit me and shake the whole house. Will the THLP do the former, the latter or both? 

The Tuba HT, by Bill Fitzmaurice's own admission, is a 25 Hz. horn, but Cabin Gain begins at up 12 db/octave at about 30 Hz. So while it may strain the driver just a little for movies, it's totally EFFORTLESS and Super Low IM distortion for music, so it still has lots of output a 20 Hz. when called upon. Those who have owned one or equivalent will never go back. However those who have lived with just vanilla LaScalas can still be happy enough, since the most CRITICAL frequencies for most music is from 100 Hz. to 10 Khz. I'm just one of those who is not happy without extra layers below the main cake and also having icing on top (better super tweeters too).

 

It's one of those rare "don't worry be happy" horn designs that represents a huge BANG for the buck. 20 watts of power in one of those will flex your drywall and windows and represents a FULL 2.5 Octaves below a LaScala HORN portion (not the resonating of the Dog House portion). I"ve owned 1 THT built by Jason STR on this forum, as well as a pair of THTLP's built by 2 unknowns. I prefer the smaller footprint of the THT LP firing upwards to a wall/ceiling junction or upper corner, which takes up the same amount of floor area as a Cornwall.

[ClaudeJ1]

46 minutes ago, Deang said:

I do miss the passion and energy of these old threads. 
 

Never was much of a bass freak, and like the LaScala just as it is. They work very well in modest sized rooms with two good corners (of course).

So apparently you are enjoying the same passion and energy of this extension of it (2008). Like I said, a lot of new and BETTER technology (tapped horns, better drivers, digital electronics, etc.)  has come along since the original LaScala Port Mod.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Here's a quote from DJK himself, who, sadly passed away in the Winter of 2018, still in his mid 60's:

 

"

Simply making the box larger gains at 31hz, but you lose 3dB at 50, 63, and 80hz. The vented (without EQ) has about 3dB more output than stock at those same frequencies. While the vented has only 2dB more output than large sealed at 31hz, it's 7dB more than stock. When EQ is applied things change. EQ applied at 31hz will cause distortion and increased cone motion on the sealed system, on the vented system the EQ is at Fb and thus does not eat up cone motion or increase distortion. It also protects the system from excessive infra-sonic inputs. The Q=2 at around 31hz will bring up 31hz by about 6dB, and the 50hz by about 3dB, little change above there. The response with EQ fits in a 6dB window (as measured in the example here) vs 19dB for stock (ignoring the 40hz null).

Fletcher/Munson contours of equal loudness are 10dB apart midband, but only 3dB apart at 31hz in the 90dB region (where most people listen). That means the un-EQ'd response difference at 31hz is going to sound much, much louder.

The original concept was based on the computer model for the Eminence 15711 (a custom-made driver based on the K-43) as a 6th order equalized system. The lighter magnet K33 is a reasonable 'fit' with some ripple in its response (±1dB or so in the model), but sounds a bit 'heavier' than the K43. The concensus is that the 7" ports sound better, they model within 1dB. When measurements are that close I always go with what sounds better, all but one pair I have supervised are now 7" (the owner of the lone 10" pair likes the 'heavier' sound on his RAP music)."

[jason str]

I like the La Scala, sold a set during hard times and broke my back getting a new pair. Terrible sellers remorse. It is and can be something so much better by finishing that horn loading down to frequencies only picked up by feel. 

It's not a bass thing it's something that's missing you have grown accustomed to.

[ClaudeJ1]

So even if you optimize the vented extension exactly like DJK says to do, you will still only get to 40 Hz. AFTER the Electronic Boost and High Pass filter.

 

The Anarchy Tapped Horn adds 10 db to the driver, which gets you to 95 db of sensitivity. The 25 watt plate amp (14 db Watts) will get you an extra 10-15 Hz. below that figure with ZERO distortion and max output of 112 db at 1 meter when you build 2. When you can get down to 25 Hz. with the same amount of floor space and zero added distortion with the same lumber volume, it's pretty hard to resist.

[ClaudeJ1]

2 minutes ago, jason str said:

I like the La Scala, sold a set during hard times and broke my back getting a new pair. Terrible sellers remorse. It is and can be something so much better by finishing that horn loading down to frequencies only picked up by feel. 

It's not a bass thing it's something that's missing you have grown accustomed to.

Having owned them all several times and then some, I would take LaScalas and a pair of THTLP subs over a pair of Khorns any day of the week.

[SWL]

Having owned them all several times and then some, I would take LaScalas and a pair of THTLP subs over a pair of Khorns any day of the week.

This is something I've been considering lately. I've never really been fond of Lascalas BUT with my THTLP's and the Lascalas EQ'd in my room I've got a feeling that I'd dig it.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[ClaudeJ1]

3 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

So even if you optimize the vented extension exactly like DJK says to do, you will still only get to 40 Hz. AFTER the Electronic Boost and High Pass filter.

 

The Anarchy Tapped Horn adds 10 db to the driver, which gets you to 95 db of sensitivity. The 25 watt plate amp (14 db Watts) will get you an extra 10-15 Hz. below that figure with ZERO distortion and max output of 112 db at 1 meter when you build 2. When you can get down to 25 Hz. with the same amount of floor space and zero added distortion with the same lumber volume, it's pretty hard to resist.

Here's another hint for y'all. Build the Anarchy Sub box a few inches thicker and use the 8" Tang Band Sub driver instead. This will give you another 6 db more output capability if you use the next up plate amp also for a few bucks more.

 

https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-Band-W8-740P-8-Subwoofer-264-854

https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-SA70-70W-Subwoofer-Amplifier-300-784

[ClaudeJ1]

3 minutes ago, SWL said:

This is something I've been considering lately. I've never really been fond of Lascalas BUT with my THTLP's and the Lascalas EQ'd in my room I've got a feeling that I'd dig it.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

Then you would need to play "More than a Feeling" by Boston as your first Test Song!!

[SWL]

Damn right.

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[billybob]

+1

[Pete H]

I can certainly say that after spending some quality time listening to LaScala's over the last couple years at events, I've grown very fond of them.  The ones I've listened to, though not completely stock, they weren't far off though they both have Dave A's MAHLs and both had the bass horn cabinet reinforced, we're not talking heavily modified.  Listened to the ones I know have for hours over a couple days with a pretty solid sub, and they are a fine speaker.  

[ClaudeJ1]

11 minutes ago, Pete H said:

I can certainly say that after spending some quality time listening to LaScala's over the last couple years at events, I've grown very fond of them.  The ones I've listened to, though not completely stock, they weren't far off though they both have Dave A's MAHLs and both had the bass horn cabinet reinforced, we're not talking heavily modified.  Listened to the ones I know have for hours over a couple days with a pretty solid sub, and they are a fine speaker.  

That tweeter, which I had a small part in it's development, is the very best tweeter I know of for Heritage! It's the "icing on the cake" I referred to earlier.

[OO1]

20 hours ago, Limberpine said:

So, this would be an enclosed riser that sits underneath the La Scala and wouldn't need the doghouse cutout? 

 

Also, could it be scaled to work as a riser that fits under the the La Scala, so that it looks flush on all side?

 

 

that's the right way , you see keeping the Lascala bass bin cover open means you are unsealing the bass bin , and the woofer can no longer limit it's excursion for  0 distortion - which results in a vague bass response , it does not matter if there is a slight bass improvement , since it comes at the price of distortion -

 

klipsch  improved the bass response of the LSII by 2 ways  1)-  1 inch thick panels for the bass bin  2)-  a tighter seal on the woofer access door  with 2 seals to avoid air leakage - 

 

 

however  what a few of us  have been saying is that  utilizing a cabinet that is the same size as the ported  bass extension , but adding a subwoofer in that cabinet  would produce substantially more bass  -

[Marvel]

1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

So even if you optimize the vented extension exactly like DJK says to do, you will still only get to 40 Hz. AFTER the Electronic Boost and High Pass filter.

That's not what Dennis is saying... 31Hz, it's substantially louder (ported and eq), even without the eq it's much better.