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La Scala Bass Mod - again


Marvel
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2 hours ago, Limberpine said:

Almost done with mine. 

 

Just need to cut the doghouse out on the top and seal up the joints. Will probably give them a sand as well.

 

Fun fun...

20211010_142435.jpg

tell you what  , if you dont hear an improvement ---add  2 woofers instead of ports 

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2 hours ago, Limberpine said:

2 6inch woofers in each? Wouldn't I need a plate amp in each too then?

you could wire each set of dual 6 inch woofers into 2 Channels of a low wattage stereo amp  or simply use up a multichannel  receiver -but what is certain is that 6 inch active woofers in a bass reflex enclosure will produce more bass than an open extension of a doghouse with twin ports -

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7 hours ago, Limberpine said:

Yeah, I talked with Claude and he suggested that I build a Bill Fitzmaurice THTLP and call it good, which I may do just for fun anyways. 

 

Listen to Claude.

 

IMO, the bass bin mod only makes sense if a decent subwoofer is not an option.  If you can acquire, or build, a quality subwoofer, the bass bin mod is superfluous.

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13 hours ago, Limberpine said:

 Claude suggested that I build a Bill Fitzmaurice THTLP

   most definitely ,  a subwoofer  works ,but since you've gone all the way with this MOD  your input as to the results is needed ...

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On 2/23/2008 at 10:40 AM, Marvel said:

The interesting thing with 10" ports is the boxes went deep, but the snappy, fast horn sound was lost! Cutting the port length to 7" brought the snap and speed back to same as stock, plus the lows remained, esp. at the 31Hz box tuning point. This data is with K33E driver and light stuffing. We think a K43E in this box would be superb, but haven't tried it yet.

Neither of us is going back to stock.

Pete

Yep, and if they put a THTLP in between, they never go back to this half baked solution also. Guaranteed.

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I always appreciated Dennis (RIP), his stellar contributions to this forum, and his effortless intellect. His LaScala mod (and associated tutorial) was and is brilliant in my opinion. Of course, like all of the possibilities with speakers, unique needs usually dictate best course. Having said that, I’d love to see full frequency response and distortion measurements across a Klipsch LS5 LaScala, a DJK modified LaScala and Claude’s impressive quarter pie. We can all add a subwoofer later - or buy the new Klipsch Jubilee, but I’m guessing there is a sizeable crowd that doesn’t find that convenient, for whatever reason.

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The LaScala bass modification is not half-baked, although a lot of opinions on this forum are. Yes, this is my opinion as well. Most people here give good advice, but in some cases, designs or topologies are not their favorite and instead of giving an objective view, they give a biased view, which does not steer a person who has limited knowledge in the right direction if they are asking about such. 

 

To get the full benefit from the LaScala bass modification, Dennis indicated that the high pass filter EQ was needed (and it is). I suspect most people who do modify their LaScala's do not use the EQ and this is where the "disappointment" may come in. 

 

Almost every speaker could benefit from a subwoofer, even some "subwoofers", if that makes any sense...

 

I like a full music spectrum, but not everyone wants or needs much below 30Hz. 

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On 10/10/2021 at 5:26 PM, Limberpine said:

Almost done with mine. 

 

Just need to cut the doghouse out on the top and seal up the joints. Will probably give them a sand as well.

 

Fun fun...

20211010_142435.jpg

Yes cool let us know...

 

Keeping in mind this from Curious George above:

.

To get the full benefit from the LaScala bass modification, Dennis indicated that the high pass filter EQ was needed (and it is). I suspect most people who do modify their LaScala's do not use the EQ and this is where the "disappointment" may come in. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Curious_George said:

The LaScala bass modification is not half-baked, although a lot of opinions on this forum are. Yes, this is my opinion as well. Most people here give good advice, but in some cases, designs or topologies are not their favorite and instead of giving an objective view, they give a biased view, which does not steer a person who has limited knowledge in the right direction if they are asking about such. 

 

To get the full benefit from the LaScala bass modification, Dennis indicated that the high pass filter EQ was needed (and it is). I suspect most people who do modify their LaScala's do not use the EQ and this is where the "disappointment" may come in. 

 

Almost every speaker could benefit from a subwoofer, even some "subwoofers", if that makes any sense...

 

I like a full music spectrum, but not everyone wants or needs much below 30Hz. 

Apparently, George, You are not that CURIOUS about real performance curves, and FACTS, from which mine and others' opinions were derived. You are free to do whatever you like to your speakers, but don't dismiss other comments as just another opinion. I we agreed with you, we would all be WRONG.

 

COMPARED to a full horn subwoofer like the F20 or Fitzmaurice THTLP, the added "Bass Reflex METHOD" used by JBL, EV, and the Altec Voice of the theater has been used before, with varying levels ANEMIC results as compared to using a full horn subwoofer. Besides, not only does this modification add group delay to the bass it add INTERMODULATION distortion, which is what PWK's main thing was all about (he received and AES Silver Medal for it). So, this ported LaScala is simply not on top of the List of things you can improve. But hey, if you like it, the go for it, but don't expect everyone to agree with you when we have FACTS, CURVES, and OWNERSHIP EXPERIENCE to back up our opinions. So basically those of us who know better don't really care what you think.

 

If you prefer Bass Reflex subwoofers with separate amplification (higher on the list), then that is a better way to go, using separate drivers and amplifiers.

 

When using an Eminence Kappa 15C, as a woofer upgrade,  your sound would improve in the MIDRANGE handoff to the K400 horn/K55 in the process of TIGHTENING the bass (instead of loosening it with the LS port mod).

 

But go ahead and follow whatever path you choose for improvement, knowing you have made some compromises in the process. Enjoy the music.

 

 

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On 10/11/2021 at 9:39 PM, Marvel said:

You calling Dennis half baked? That's pretty special.

Dennis never presented this solution as the best, just the most convenient with an audible improvement.

 

When you can add a horn sub that is badly needed with any short horn you maintain a much lower INTERMODULATION Distortion than adding ports and air volume to the horn driver.

 

If it's DIY, and you don't want to build the complexity of a horn, then at least build a separate sub with 18" drivers in a box, ported or not.

 

Here's proof the I practice what I preach when it comes to using short bass horns down to 80 Hz. I did the same with my LaScalas when I had the room for TWO THTLP's, but had to sell them when I downsized my domicile. The subwoofer here uses an 18" JBL driver with lots of oompf down to 30 Hz. for music in my workout room. This is my "junk" 2.1 setup in the basement. And YES, it's time aligned within 1/20th of a wave at 500 Hz.

 

Why the LaScala, even if the horn is folded, is my favorite Heritage speaker is because it's pretty close to TIME ALIGNED in the midrange where we live.

 

 

 

 

IMG_2453.JPG

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5 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Dennis never presented this solution as the best, just the most convenient with an audible improvement.

 

Exactly. Thank you. This is all I was alluding to. 

 

Claude, you need to make up your mind. One minute you state the above, which I agree with, other times, you say the opposite like "half-baked". It can't be both in reality. If you want to flounder, then that is your prerogative. 

 

 

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