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On 9/10/2018 at 10:58 AM, Lawnman said:

I know this is an old thread, but looking for a set of Mid Horns 3" x 7-1/4" for a set of Concertos.  Any help would be appreciated. 

 

Hey Lawnman, see the next post (which generated a new page so you'll have to go to the next page/202). Fritz has some horns but this site has a 'clear as mud' way to reply ('Quote'?) so he made a new post as a reply to you (he's new here too).

 

BTW most of the FUGers have transitioned over to Facebook FUG. John Bob says check it out:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/584410888260783/

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  • 8 months later...

I am a new member. I just bought a beautiful set of Frazier f1464 speakers and I am try to get some more information on them. I am considering pairing them with my Cornwall's. Any help would be greatly appreciated. They were made in Arkansas also. Thanks for any help. Tony

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just picked up a set of Concertos on a whim. Heard how well they performed against Heresys and thought I’d give them a twirl... this particular set was so well taken care of that the owner even had glass tops made for them and they came with the sale. No scratches, 16 square corners attenuators work flawlessly and really an all there special set. They are so surprisingly good that my jaw dropped while playing some Lucas Nelson and then some Faces. Boy they really boogie on a small Arcam amp. Really shockingly good fun!! I have some pretty exotic gear & speakers too but boy, I’m really enjoying these. 

Edited by BGRoss
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  • 1 month later...

s-l1600.jpgHello...

 

Wondering if anyone knows... particularly the former Frazier employees..

(assuming anyone is still here... I too am uncomfortable with Facebook)

 

There was a Frazier speaker... to long ago to recall what it was called..

(my very first speakers were Super Capsules... LOVED them!)

It was large and basically square... that I know of, only in black finish.. but it had only a single driver!

A small(ish) one at that...

6-1/2" or maybe even smaller.. I've noticed it in other models as well... (direct radiator)

It had square or rectangular ports around the periphery... (so hard to recall exact details after this long..

Notably, the surround was a large (doped-fabric) roll (uncommon at the time) and it had a large excursion...

 

It was odd looking because it was just one small driver in a sea of black-box...

 

Sid Zimet sort of featured it.... had it playing a lot of the time and it was the first speaker he'd show you, when you first came in and stated an interest in new speakers..

(the old timers will recognize this reference)

"Stone Celler" also in Roslyn had them playing all the time..

(If you don't know THAT reference... better to leave well enough alone... 😉 )

 

Just really curious to know what these were after all these years....

They were shockingly good!!!!

Not as good as the Capsules/Concertos mind you.... the ones I chose....

But I'm fascinated at how good they were, particularly the highs with no tweeter!

(highs were a bit deficient but only just... you could "get away with it" as they were)

Just a single, fairly small, driver.... in a HUGE box.... I assume back-horn loaded in some fashion...

 

I keep wondering how he accomplished this feat!

 

TIA

Greg

 

PS: Added found pic after posting... dunno why it came out on top..

PPS:  Woofer looked sort of like that..

Edited by GrooveGrinder
Adding a pic I found..
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/7/2019 at 5:33 PM, GrooveGrinder said:

Hello...

 

Wondering if anyone knows... particularly the former Frazier employees..

(assuming anyone is still here... I too am uncomfortable with Facebook)

 

There was a Frazier speaker... to long ago to recall what it was called..

(my very first speakers were Super Capsules... LOVED them!)

It was large and basically square... that I know of, only in black finish.. but it had only a single driver!

A small(ish) one at that...

6-1/2" or maybe even smaller.. I've noticed it in other models as well... (direct radiator)

It had square or rectangular ports around the periphery... (so hard to recall exact details after this long..

Notably, the surround was a large (doped-fabric) roll (uncommon at the time) and it had a large excursion...

 

It was odd looking because it was just one small driver in a sea of black-box...

 

Sid Zimet sort of featured it.... had it playing a lot of the time and it was the first speaker he'd show you, when you first came in and stated an interest in new speakers..

(the old timers will recognize this reference)

"Stone Celler" also in Roslyn had them playing all the time..

(If you don't know THAT reference... better to leave well enough alone... 😉 )

 

Just really curious to know what these were after all these years....

They were shockingly good!!!!

Not as good as the Capsules/Concertos mind you.... the ones I chose....

But I'm fascinated at how good they were, particularly the highs with no tweeter!

(highs were a bit deficient but only just... you could "get away with it" as they were)

Just a single, fairly small, driver.... in a HUGE box.... I assume back-horn loaded in some fashion...

 

I keep wondering how he accomplished this feat!

 

TIA

Greg

 

PS: Added found pic after posting... dunno why it came out on top..

PPS:  Woofer looked sort of like that..

 

The stories I've heard of Sid Zimet seem to mostly revolve around Black Box models, but anything but square:

 

182165517_vintage-frazier-black-box-i-de

 

Now I thought they always had a tweeter BUT it's entirely possible that some predecessor only had a single driver; I say that because there was an old mysterious pallet of 6 - 3/4" treble cone woofers in the factory (late '70s) that might have been there for old model replacement parts. The treble cone acts as a tweeter. Then again maybe in the early Zimet years there was some speaker as you described.
The speaker in your pic was only a 4 - 1/2" used in the small [~breadbox size] rectangular Super Midget (no tweeter) and many of the larger multi-way models for mid-range drivers. Also well known for use in Bose speakers of that era (ex: 901).

BTW there was never a Super Capsule to my knowledge. There was the painted Capsule Monitor and it's twin the walnut-veneered Concerto.

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  • 1 month later...

UGH!!! Forum didn't notify me of replies for some reason! Just checked back on a whim....

 

Yes, they very well could've been 4.5" drivers... The scale of things is murky after this many years.. (and considering how my OWN scale has changed since I was 17... :)

 

YES they DID look (just) like the full ranges in the Model 7 V and 11 !!!

The ports looked like those in the 7, but all around the periphery rather than down just one side. (AFAIR)

 

Kind of like this, BUT... More square front, ports like that all around the front... and that tiny driver in that sea of black front.... (and maybe 1/2 to 2/3 the size overall)..

201008012105348827.jpg

 

I guess it was a "full-range" driver then...

 

As to the concerto/capsule/etc..

 

There was definitely a "super-capsule".... I had a pair.

Even have the invoice.. which I stumbled on to (and saved) fairly recently, though I can't lay hands on it right now..

Same as the concerto, but minus the veneer (black painted), minus the recessed "stand",  no grills, pot in the rear.

Mine were bought in the early-mid 70s... 73 I think..

I believe there was first "The Capsule".. just the horn, no piezo.. then they added the piezo and called it the super capsule... or so said Zimet back then.

Though they still had the regular Capsule, (for a few bucks less) I think they were last remaining stock, because later on, they only offered the Super-Capsule..

There are pics that I've seen recently of the regular capsule, just the horn around the net... FWIW..

Maybe the Super was a Zimet thing?

 

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It could very well be that Sid nicknamed the Piezo Capsules as Super to help differentiate them. The company was sloppy when it came to documentation, etc.; they'd upgrade stuff and oftentimes use the same name. The literature shows them as "Capsule Monitor"  and AFAIR the stickers we placed on them showed the same or maybe just Capsule.

 

I suppose way back there might have been a more square Super Midget, especially for Sid with the economy black versions of models he sold. I say Super Midget because that is the model associated with the small single full range driver (used as mid-ranges on the larger models and in the small column speaker). Maybe a Monte Carlo if the driver was a little bigger and before adding a tweeter. These guys would still be on the small side, like around a foot square. Of course stuff waaaay back had different model names but may have looked like precursors to these models. You'd really do a lot better on your quest over yonder Facebook FUG, it's pretty dead over here after the 'migration' [some thought this FUG was going to be dropped when there was a website change, but lo and behold it survived].

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  • 6 months later...

Hello All,

I am new here to the Klipsch forums, but I am no stranger to their speakers.  Like most, I am interested in good sound with high efficiency.   However this usually comes at a cost premium.   A current project I am working on now is have a sound system that I could place in my backyard for summer parties.   The speakers would NOT be kept outdoors, but in a garage for most of the year.   Getting power from said garage, which only has a single 15 amp circuit run to it, this dictated using a small amplifier with very efficient speakers.   Recalling my days when I worked at the local amusement park.  I remembered them having Frazier Super Texan speakers and I had always liked the sound of them and I remember the park was running these speakers using a serious of medium powered (about 50 watts) amplifiers.  They sounded great.   Having a reputation of being a sleeper speaker and selling for good prices, I figure this would be an avenue I would head down if I wanted a high efficiency speaker.    Several years ago I could have picked up such a pair of speakers for about $250.   But the Super Texans are VERY large speakers and perhaps too much for my project.

 

Looking on Ebay and other electronics sites it seems that Frazier speakers are slim pickings.   Yet, I have located a pair of Dixielanders, but they are the hi-fi kind (in a oiled veneer cabinet).  However, a received a slap in the face in regards to the price as the owner is asking more than $500 for the pair.  I know that some here might think that is a good price, but I am looking at things differently.   For starters, if one of these speakers breaks, where is one to get parts to fix it?   Can these speakers be reconed?  I looked up three famous speaker reconing companies in my area and NONE mention fixing Frazier speakers.   Since I am intending to store these speakers in a garage, they will be subject to wide temperature changes and thus would be more prone to failure.  So the ability to fix them is paramount.

 

So that brings me to my questions:    Is it worth that price?  Where do I go if I need to get the speakers reconed (or the horn diaphrams replaced).    I am not big on substitutions as I wouldn't want to compromise the original intended performance of the speakers.   While the Dixielanders are still a large speaker, it is not as big as the Super Texan and I think it would suit my needs as I could power them to decent levels using a 30-50 watt receiver.

 

Any information would be appreciated.

Thank you.

D

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When I started crowing about Fraziers here I  didn't realize what I'd started. I  was buying Mark IVs for 35.00 a  pair in superb condition. Eventually got a pristine pair of Eleven's for 400.00 along with vintage Soundcraftsman amp, preamp and tuner. Since then, more have caught on the the prices, while still bargains, have really gone up a lot. Wish I'd kept my mouth shut. 

 

Anyway, this group was very active until a few years ago the group decided to move to FB. It's quite active. 

Dave

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Hello Dave,

 

Well, I will not be blaming you, as I know of Fraziers from my own past.  Here in New York they were fairly known.  Still considered a 'sleeper' speaker, I have come across them in clubs, and even mobile DJ's had them too.    The thing was back then I didn't think much of the speaker as in many applications, the speakers were repaired with non original Frazier parts and they didn't sound right.  So I originally badmouthed the speakers in my audio days because of that.  But going back to the amusement park I worked for a couple summers, their Frazier Super Texans sounded great.   I had a talk with the guy that maintains the system and he said, "They sound good because I fixed them with the original parts."    He was a big Frazier nut anyway.  But that was back in the 80's and I was in my teens.   Since then, the park has went through three different speaker companies  (Community, JBL and now Bose).  So far they didn't have any set of speaker as long as they had the Fraziers. 

 

I come to have a 'reaquaintance' with Frazier as I was looking for something that was very efficient like the old classic Klipsch speakers, but without the high price.  But many prices I am coming across in discussions were from 10 years ago.

 

For my project, I was looking for something very efficient, but smaller than the Super Texans.   It didn't take me long to find out about the Dixielanders.   I can get a hold of a working pair right now, but I just think the asking price of over $500 is a bit much.  These are also the woodgrain versions and I prefer the nightclub looking ones.  I would be storing these in the garage and really only use them for when I have backyard parties.  So I am concerned about the speakers age and how they would hold up with the wide temperature ranges in a garage.  So that is where the concern came into play about being able to fix them if they broke.  I wouldn't want to replace them with just 'any' part as that is what initially caused me to badmouth these speakers in my audio / DJ days in the mid-90's.   Most clubs that had Frazier speakers during this time were not replacing the parts with the correct components and naturally the sound quality suffered.   So it is not surprising that now, over 20 years later, I don't come across Fraziers that often anymore.

 

So what is FB?  Do you have a link to where the current discussions are now?

 

Also I don't HAVE to have a Frazier speaker.  I only selected them as I was under the assumption that I can get them at a good price.  I am mostly looking for a good sounding speaker with a VERY high efficiency so I do not have to use a large amplifier on them.   I do prefer a horn speaker as my backyard is pretty long.  So I would be open to other suggestions too.

 

One favorite speaker that I love the sound of is an EV SX-300.  They are 99db sensitivity, but roll off at 60hz.  The small cabinet does mean I would need a subwoofer and I really don't want to go with a three channel system.  I prefer just two full range speakers to an amp hooked up to an audio player.  Something that sets up very fast.  The Dixielanders looked like something I could just bearhug, carry over and plop down on my deck...easy peazy.

 

Thanks for the info.

D

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FB = Facebook. The group over yonder is Frazier Users Group, hopefully this link works but if not you can always search groups in FB:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/584410888260783/

 

Yeah Dixielanders sound good for your app. There's also a big horn with a small [Dixie HF] horn in its mouth that performs similarly, almost an unfolded Dixie, but probably harder to find. You're probably being charged a premium due to the fancy outer cabinets as those are probably quite a bit rarer (Jack Frazier had Dixies in fancy cabinets in his living room - a personal favorite). Someone over in FB FUG may have a set of Dixies for sale.

Those guys over there also know of good replacement parts, recone shops (ex: Freeman-Tuell in Dallas), and sometimes have legacy parts for sale. We have seen legacy parts on ebay and some of the woofers have been reconed; I've searched "Frazier speaker" (no plural just in case) with good results and occasionally mystery stuff pops up with common misspellings of Frazier. Craigslist is a very simple-minded search engine picky about spelling, like plural vs. non-plural.

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On 5/2/2020 at 2:23 PM, John Daggett said:

FB = Facebook. The group over yonder is Frazier Users Group, hopefully this link works but if not you can always search groups in FB:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/584410888260783/

 

Yeah Dixielanders sound good for your app. There's also a big horn with a small [Dixie HF] horn in its mouth that performs similarly, almost an unfolded Dixie, but probably harder to find. You're probably being charged a premium due to the fancy outer cabinets as those are probably quite a bit rarer (Jack Frazier had Dixies in fancy cabinets in his living room - a personal favorite). Someone over in FB FUG may have a set of Dixies for sale.

Those guys over there also know of good replacement parts, recone shops (ex: Freeman-Tuell in Dallas), and sometimes have legacy parts for sale. We have seen legacy parts on ebay and some of the woofers have been reconed; I've searched "Frazier speaker" (no plural just in case) with good results and occasionally mystery stuff pops up with common misspellings of Frazier. Craigslist is a very simple-minded search engine picky about spelling, like plural vs. non-plural.

 

 I am on the fence about getting these Dixielander speakers.   These are the style that is in the home wood cabinets.  Ironically I actually prefer the "utility" look better.   Yesterday I just dropped some big cash on having my car fixed and right now I am out of work.   If I went with something like an EV SX-300 (a similar performing speaker to the Dixielander in terms of specs) and something breaks on that, I can easily get spare parts for it.  But I tried to look up parts for the Dixielander and ixsnay. Nothing.  The main concern about this is that I will be storing the speakers in my garage.  While they will sheltered from the elements, they will be exposed to wide temperature swings going from summer to winter.   For me the outside wooden cabinets are just going to add to the weight and I probably would sell them off separately.   But again, to have a driver fail on a rare speaker like this would NOT be good.

 

Does anyone have some information on suitable replacements?  I know back in the 90's many clubs were replacing the original Frazier drivers with something more common like EV or JBL.  Sadly, there was much mismatching going on here and this is what initially lead me to believe that Frazier was not a very good speaker.  Yet, the local amusement park had Frazier Super Texans for decades and they sounded awesome in that park.  In fact they were the best sounding speakers they ever had.   In the 90's they finally replaced the Fraziers and every few years there after they replace them again.  From what I seen so far, they had the Fraziers from their inception in the 60's through the 80's.  In the 90's they had Community speakers and they were VERY clear on the mids and highs, but not very strong on the low end.   In the early 2000's they had JBL and they were the WORST sounding speakers they had.   Now they have Bose and they have a nice sounding midrange, with rolled off highs.  It is warmer sound than the JBL's or Community speakers, but still not strong in the low end.   In terms of bass performance, the Fraziers were the best.   But that is my only experience I had with listening to ORIGINAL Fraziers.  Almost every other experience I dealt with them, they had substituted drivers.  While I am not against that, I am worried about mismatching.   So unless I know what are GOOD substitute replacements for the drivers, I don't think I am going to buy these speakers.

 

I have not heard the Dixielanders in person, but I found this video on You Tube with a guy that is running four of them in a barn sized man-cave:

 

 

That guy is using a phone!   I think that sounds fantastic.   Granted he is using four of them in there.  I don't see a subwoofer, but there could be one.  But if that is just the Dixielanders doing the bass response there, that is pretty darn good!

 

BTW, I have attached a photo of the inside of one of the cabinets.  Can anyone tell me if that is an original Frazier driver?  From what I seen of other Dixielander pictures the driver is blue and has the name Frazier stamped on the back.   This driver is significantly different.  But then again, it could be an earlier model.  I am wondering if someone can verify that it is indeed an original driver.

DixielanderWoofer.jpg

Edited by Diaval
mistake
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I think they are in utility cabinets. Look closer at the edge of that pic - looks grey like a Texan. AFAIK they were just 'set' inside of a fancy cabinet for home use (that's how Jack's pair were done and some others I've seen posted).
That may be an original woofer from the 'old as dirt' era. Lol. Then again it could have been replaced with something old. I'm not that familiar with that era of Fraziers that have those old paper-wrapped capacitors tied down with strips of wood (when I was there they were more modern-looking caps tied down with nylon tie raps). The coils and caps look original though.
Anyhow you could probably do better on price, especially if you're not paying the extra premium for the fancy outer cabinet. And drivers can be found or reconed (again, Freeman-Tuell in Dallas for one). The modern E-V woofer may very well be compatible since they used E-V's in Texans and other models as a heavy duty upgrade to older regular-type woofers.

 

I don't put any stake in any sound recording of a speaker. How is the original sound going to make it through correctly?

Anyhow you need to get your butt over to Facebook FUG for broader input, hardly any of them look over here anymore. Plus someone may have or know of the Dixies you're looking for at a much better price.

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21 hours ago, John Daggett said:

I think they are in utility cabinets. Look closer at the edge of that pic - looks grey like a Texan. AFAIK they were just 'set' inside of a fancy cabinet for home use (that's how Jack's pair were done and some others I've seen posted).
That may be an original woofer from the 'old as dirt' era. Lol. Then again it could have been replaced with something old. I'm not that familiar with that era of Fraziers that have those old paper-wrapped capacitors tied down with strips of wood (when I was there they were more modern-looking caps tied down with nylon tie raps). The coils and caps look original though.
Anyhow you could probably do better on price, especially if you're not paying the extra premium for the fancy outer cabinet. And drivers can be found or reconed (again, Freeman-Tuell in Dallas for one). The modern E-V woofer may very well be compatible since they used E-V's in Texans and other models as a heavy duty upgrade to older regular-type woofers.

 

I don't put any stake in any sound recording of a speaker. How is the original sound going to make it through correctly?

Anyhow you need to get your butt over to Facebook FUG for broader input, hardly any of them look over here anymore. Plus someone may have or know of the Dixies you're looking for at a much better price.

Hello John,

 

I guess you probably saw the Dixies on Ebay then.   Yeah, when I was looking over the inside as the seller was gracious enough to open up the cabinet, I was thinking the same thing in that if those drivers were original, they must be REALLY old,  since the insides of Dixies I have seen before have a blue woofer in it.   On that woofer I don't even see a Frazier stamp on it.  So it may not even be original.   Since this was a popular speaker during the 60's through 80's, they are just very old speakers.   Given that they were stored in a garage and the woofer casting does show signs of pitting already, I know that continued storage in a garage would just have them on a brink of failure and with my luck, it would be when I would have a party.  Then I would have to chase around and try to find replacement parts for it.   Also, in the very least, I know I would have to redo those crossovers as those caps would certainly be leaking and have all sorts of other problems.   Also, I don't really need the external cabinets.   Taking everything into consideration,  I decided against it yesterday and it just so happens the buyer sold them off as well. 

 

As for getting a pair of these in the future?   Well, I guess I would only do so if I know of a commonly available driver that can replace the originals with similar performance.   I think for now though, I am just as well off with a pair of EV SX-300's:

 

https://www.electrovoice.com/binary/global/image.php?image=/binary/Sx300_mntr-trans.png&width=454&height=380

 

I am very familiar with this speaker and they are pretty lightweight and one can be carried in each hand.  Spec wise they are similar to the Dixielanders, but I doubt they have the same bass extension the Dixie has.  But the high frequencies go to 20k and not 15k.   But it is a speaker that can benefit with a subwoofer, which is something I can rent in the event I have a LARGE party.  But for average listening, I know the SX-300 will be fine.

 

I don't think I am going to sign up for Facebook as I don't like the way sites like that are organized.  It is just one response after another and you really can't search for anything there with any good results.  Why such sites became more popular than a traditional forum is beyond me.  It is doubtful I would come across a pair of Dixielanders in my area again anyway.   If anything, the Super Texan was more popular here in the 70's and 80's as I had seen a few venues with that speaker including the aforementioned amusement park.  In my clubbing days in the early 90's the club I went to had them as well and yeah, that was one of the places where they probably substituted the drivers as they sounded terrible there.   At any rate, I know where you guys are on Facebook now, but I am probably not going to sign up for it.  

 

Thank you for your help. 

D

 

 

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Oh I forgot about the stamps. Since Frazier didn't make drivers they were either ink stamped from the vendors or we placed Frazier stickers on them.

Yeah come to think of it that woofer looks highly oxidized. Yet the other metallic stuff I see looks fine. And I'm used to studs with nuts holding the woofers in place, not screws, although this version is a little before my time.

 

I preferred it over here too as I'm not a big fan of FB. But what happened was that this site made some web changes, the Frazier page disappeared [or was in danger of disappearing, I forget], so the folk or folks who started it here made the move to FB. It picked up steam over yonder via the proliferation of FB, so stuck despite this page coming back after the site change was complete.

 

Let me know your general area and next time I'm on FB I'll see if there is an ad there for Dixies of regional interest.

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