Is Klipsch making a mistake allowing internet vendors to sell

[Brac]

Hi Amy,

Thanks for the response. Ebay user audio6996, has been undercutting the market for a long time. Calls himself AVB direct, I assume he is not legit as he state 4year warranty from AVB. So my question is why does't klipsch have someone buy this item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Klipsch-RC-10-RC10-Black-Center-Channel-Speaker_W0QQitemZ310035438306QQihZ021QQcategoryZ14992QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The you would have a serial # and know who's account to pull????????

[dkp]

Amy,

Does Klipsch have a problem with the internet dealers who are buying inventory from authorized dealers and then selling the merchandise online? If so, would you mind discussing on the rationale behind this? I know that some of these dealers have gone so far as to offer their own in-house sort of warranty since the product would no longer be covered by the manufacturer's warranty.

These online dealers are most certainly driving the margins of the brick and mortar shops down. As the products offered by the legitimate online dealers become more readily available this may only become more problematic for the b&m shops in the future.

[Daddy Dee]

That would be interesting detective work. I'm somewhat surprised that Ebay would not shut down unauthorized sellers at the request of the manufacturer.

I'm supposing that these sellers are able to buy stock from some "authorized" dealer willing to sell out the back door. I'd think it more unlikely, but possible, that an authorized seller would sell under another identity on Ebay.

Think of this: what if you wanted to sell your Reference speakers to someone on ebay? Would it be ok for us to stop you just because we are the manufacturer? It's the same thing. These are garage-sale like dealers, and if they aren't violating any laws, we cannot prevent it. We can only stop their source, which isn't always easy.

Both of the scenarios you mention do happen. Once those dealers are caught, their accounts are closed.

Amy,

I hear you. This is not to quibble, I just think there is a difference between an individual selling their gear and someone who is an unauthorized dealer. I would agree that I don't think individuals should be stopped from selling on Ebay. I do understand that this sort of distinction is not meaningful in dealing with Ebay enforcement.

I'm glad Klipsch is able to shut down some of these folks.

[Guest srobak]

I believe online sales will ultimately help local dealers, because consumers would rather listen before buying audio equipment. The exposure of the product line on the internet gets the word out and the brand recognition to motivate people to give us a listen. The local dealer then has the opportunity to close the sale.

I dunno if I can buy completely into that... Myself included - almost everyone I know from the motorcycle world goes to a dealer to find/try on gear such as helmets, gloves, jackets, boots... as well as accessories - finds the right sizes, or the accessory that looks best/closest, etc... then goes home and hits one of the 5 or 8 top motorcycle supply stores online, and gets the same product for anywhere from 10 to 40 % less than the local dealer has them. In many respects - the same is true for audio. I bought all my RF stuff from Sound Distributors - partly because no one in Chicagoland carried the RF in showrooms really - even all around Chicagoland. Then BB started carrying RF, and I still paid less from SD online.

In both motorcycle gear and audio - I always give the retailer the chance to match an online price - and they never can... can't even come close to make the "convenience of taking it home now" worth it. As much as I love & use it - I also hate it. I remember when shopping and price-matching involved going to 2 or 3 stores and taking home the best deal. I would really rather do that - I want to help the "mom & pop" places... but it is hard when the markups are so different, even vs. big box retailers. Not to mention - especially Heritage lines - it is difficult to find anyone that carries them so you can audition - even in Chicagoland.

I do think it was a very good thing for both Klipsch's bottom line and the brand recognition to get it into BB stores... and yes - that "channel" has/will prosper greatly - but it will still be tough even for them to compete with etailers and the net-savvy. $.02

[Amy]

Hi Amy,

Thanks for the response. Ebay user audio6996, has been undercutting the market for a long time. Calls himself AVB direct, I assume he is not legit as he state 4year warranty from AVB. So my question is why does't klipsch have someone buy this item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Klipsch-RC-10-RC10-Black-Center-Channel-Speaker_W0QQitemZ310035438306QQihZ021QQcategoryZ14992QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The you would have a serial # and know who's account to pull????????

Thank you, I will find out about this.

[bigdaddy]

Obviously there are several different opinions on the matter. I have made my views known. I just hope it doen't come back to bite them. There has to be a way to stop the unauthorized product. I don't know what it is, but other manufacturers control it somehow. What does it take to become a dealer anyway?

[boomer9911]

I just want to say and being away from the forum for awhile, this thread I must reply. The answer is YES, why?! As a Heritage owner I am not worried about top end issues, maybe the lessor speaker line sales being legit for lower income people and online scams. My fault lies in with an Ebay auction I am dealing with right now. The "new" Klipsch earphones and cost from starting bids at $35US and buy it now at $279US....WHO DO I BELIEVE....Klipsch....online sellers....so what is bootleg...making the $3.99 headphone from Rat Shack pretty with Klipsch decals...who is Policing this...Klipsch...[<)]

[Def Leper]

You think Klipsch is overpriced? You need to go look at some B&W or Paradigms or heck just for fun go look at Wilson watt puppies, Totem Hawks, The line array that Macintosh builds. There are tons of speakers that sell for a lot more than Klipsch products do and I don't know of one that doesn't use MDF bodies with a veneer or vinyl covering on them.

Yes, I do think most Klipsch products are overpriced, and I also think some of the other products you mention are overpriced too. When I purchased my 35-series speakers for my home theater, I shopped carefully and paid less than half the going retail price for these items. At that price, I felt they were a good value. Klipsch is trying to play all of the market segments, rigidly control their trademarks and copyrights, tightly control dealer practices, sell through mass-market big box stores, and even retail directly to consumers, and all the time trying to cultivate the Klipsch name as some kind of transcendental audio bullet. In other words, they are trying to be everything to everyone.

When I purchased a 35-series system for my home theater, I looked at and auditioned the components first, then carefully and patiently shopped and was able to buy the equipment for a little less than half the regular price. At that price, I felt I got a very good value. Given the construction of the equipment and the many other products on the market with similar sound quality and lower prices, I would not have bought KIipsch at the inflated retail price.

Klipsch itself has become an internet dealer, selling Heritage products directly to consumers and bypassing their retailers as well as selling on ebay. Given that, I'm not sure what basis Klipsch has for trying to regulate internet sales other than to control competition and keep prices artificially high.

[Def Leper]

Hi Amy,

Thanks for the response. Ebay user audio6996, has been undercutting the market for a long time. Calls himself AVB direct, I assume he is not legit as he state 4year warranty from AVB. So my question is why does't klipsch have someone buy this item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Klipsch-RC-10-RC10-Black-Center-Channel-Speaker_W0QQitemZ310035438306QQihZ021QQcategoryZ14992QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The you would have a serial # and know who's account to pull????????

Thank you, I will find out about this.

It's fascinating to me that a Klipsch official doesn't know this ebay retailer. I understand that Klipsch has gone after many ebay sellers for copyright and trademark infringement (showing a picture on an auction with the Klipsch logo visible) and Klipsch corporate maintains their own ebay store. In other words, Klipsch officials are actively monitoring ebay Klipsch sales. Anyone who looks at Klipsch products on ebay is very familar with the large number of AVB auctions over the past several years, so I can only conclude that Klipsch knows who this dealer is and happily sells to them.

[Amy]

It's fascinating to me that a Klipsch official doesn't know this ebay retailer. I understand that Klipsch has gone after many ebay sellers for copyright and trademark infringement (showing a picture on an auction with the Klipsch logo visible) and Klipsch corporate maintains their own ebay store. In other words, Klipsch officials are actively monitoring ebay Klipsch sales. Anyone who looks at Klipsch products on ebay is very familar with the large number of AVB auctions over the past several years, so I can only conclude that Klipsch knows who this dealer is and happily sells to them.

Quite the contrary.

Turns out we are well aware, and are in the process of handling.

I personally didn't know because everyone here knows that I am a complete airhead.

[]

Seriously, I can't keep up with all the monikers of dealers and who is authorized and who is not. I'm not in sales, and I'm not in customer service--those are the people who know this stuff front and back. Abv, Abt, Avs, bmv...throw a bunch of initials at me and they just look like letters.

Don't let it cause you to form incorrect judgements about Klipsch!

Thanks

[dkp]

Amy,

If you get the chance to reply to my question posted earlier in this thread I would love to read the answer. (in case you missed the post)

Thanks!

[Amy]

Amy,

Does Klipsch have a problem with the internet dealers who are buying inventory from authorized dealers and then selling the merchandise online?

Yes, we would have a problem with it. If we do not know the seller, we cannot attest to their integrity and how well they would represent the brand. A dealer must apply to have an account set up with us, and we evaluate them as we would any employee.

I'm completely in the dark about the legal aspects or what the options are to prevent it, but it's certainly not something we like to see.

[bigdaddy]

If you bought any system for half of retail, no one made a dime on it. I know there are good margins in better electronics but not that good. If there are better products out there for less money, why would you buy Klipsch? That makes absolutely no sense at all. As for build quality they are on par with any speakers in their price, and several that cost quite a bit more.

[Guest srobak]

If we do not know the seller, we cannot attest to their integrity and how well they would represent the brand. A dealer must apply to have an account set up with us, and we evaluate them as we would any employee.

How do you explain why BB selling Klipsch then? heheh

In seriousness - can you shed some light on some of the authorized dealers then? What I mean is - folks like Sound Distributors and Acoustic Sound Design who have both retail websites for online ordering, and run ebay stores... While they sell other models as well - they seem to push the Reference 35 mains and surround systems the most... all models which have been discontinued since 2006. However - they are selling units with 2007 mfg dates on the S/Ns... I even recall reading one of them that said it was a "special production run due to it's past success"...

With Klipsch online info reading 2006, and authorized dealers selling freshly manufactured units - it is very hard to know what the real story is. I had to check here in order to get info from other people indicating that yes Sound Distributors was authorized, and they were selling A-stock 2007 production units.

[Amy]

I'm not sure exactly what your question is, but yes, this was addressed by Eric from Sound Distributors a while back here

[Guest srobak]

Yeah, that's the post I was referring to...

My question (well - more of a statement) is - the online Klipsch literature states the line was terminated in 06 (http://www.klipsch.com/products/discontinued/details/rf-35.aspx), yet e-tailers are selling 07 (possibly 08?) manufactured stock... Unless someone did some good digging around (ie: finding that thread on klipsch fora) - they could be a bit confused, and even shy away from purchasing from said authorized e-tailers - since the product line has supposedly be "dead" for 2 years now...

Maybe some clarification in the online literature is needed, indicating that they are still available in limited numbers? Because the first thing anyone will do after seeing them listed is to go to the site and look up the info on the products. They see it is discontinued in 2006 - they think it might be bogus or 2 year old B-stock - so they go elsewhere.

[JJkizak]

I remember the "old days". First, find a magazine reviewing speakers. Second, get the address and send a letter to get prices and brochures. Third, evaluate the available products. Fourth, get the money. Fifth, send in the order with check. Sixth, wait three more months for speakers to arrive. Total time involved for me was 3 years. (1962-1965)

JJK

[dkp]

Amy,

Does Klipsch have a problem with the internet dealers who are buying inventory from authorized dealers and then selling the merchandise online?

Yes, we would have a problem with it. If we do not know the seller, we cannot attest to their integrity and how well they would represent the brand. A dealer must apply to have an account set up with us, and we evaluate them as we would any employee.

I'm completely in the dark about the legal aspects or what the options are to prevent it, but it's certainly not something we like to see.

Thanks for the reply, Amy. That is exactly what I expected but leads me to a bit of confusion. I am curious as to why Klipsch would offer an authorized dealership to a previously unauthorized dealer? I'm sure that I am getting a bit out of your area of expertise but it's troubling for me to see Klipsch stating that these unauthorized dealers are a problem and going after the dealers who are supplying them, only to offer the unauthorized dealer a legitimate dealership. I am speaking specifically of acousticsounddesign.

They used to offer Klipsch merchandise after removing the serial numbers in order to deter Klipsch from tracking the authorized dealer who sold to them and are now a legitimate dealership. I realize that some members of the forum have made purchases from them and have been quite satisfied and I am not addressing the quality of their dealership at all. Rather, I am looking at this from the perspective of a legitimate dealership who plays by the rules and sees this sort of thing happening. It must be troubling at the very least and likely even entices them to follow suit.

[Guest srobak]

Hrm... agreed - that sounds more like a reward than a punishment, nevermind the financial benefits to Klipsch. Sometimes it is better to take a stand just on principle, no? I mean... I leave -feedback on ebay for people who shaft me on so much as a $2 transaction - yeah, it is "JUST two bucks" - but for me... well... I'm the kinda person who holds others to ethical standards and principles. If someone crosses me for any amount and any reason, they are on the poop-list from that point out, ya know? I expect and demand the people and companies use GOOD business practices when conducting business and transactions - and if they don't - to the curb they go. Maybe it's just me....

[dkp]

This thread got me wondering about how many forum members have given serious thought to opening/buying an audio (or audio/video) dealership and whether or not the competition from the online (authorized and unauthorized dealers) would be a detriment to carrying the Klipsch (or other) brand. Competition from the big box stores would surely come into play as well, although the markets are a bit different.