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Music Server vs mid to high end CD players


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How loud is the mac-mini?

That's one of the major reasons people use the Mac-Mini setup is because there is NO noise. I can't even tell that it's on. It also has everything you need right out of the box.

Sorry I can't help you with the wireless thing as I have no need for that and have no experience with it whatsoever. I don't see the big reason to go wireless when the size of a 1000GB hard drive is the size of a paperback book. Just stick it next to the computer that's connected to the dac you'll be using.

It's usually not a good idea to use wav since they will not retain "tag" info. And the equivelant of a wav file for a Mac is an aiff file. Same uncompressed file. I don't have any experience with flac files since I've always associated them with pc users.

Sounds like you need to get busy ripping your CD's.

If you're rich you can pay for a company to rip them for you but I could NEVER send all of my cd's to someone to do that. It would probably cost about $2000 for all of mine. Plus I want to enter the info myself because I can place associated artists together and enter their names, etc the way I wanna do it. CDDB automatically does stupid stuff like enters artists first name first so you have a bunch of "Johns" under "John" instead of their last name, etc. To give you an idea of how much/little space Apple Lossless uses I have 43 days of music ripped now using up 343GB.

I guess I'm just a Mac guy and I'm very biased so take my suggestions with a grain of salt. At the very least if you already have a computer and want to make a $140 investment in this dac you can always sell it and get your $ back. At least you can experiment and see if it's up your alley. I really wish you could use Front Row though. I'm sure there's a pc equivalent(rip-off) :-) Go to a Mac Store and fool around with it.

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Seems like MBS-5 cost around 500.00 to build. It is totally silent unless you put your ear against the case, as the only moving part is the HDD which I researched specifically for minimum noise. I store my music remotely on a Terastation NAS and it serves up quite glitchlessly over wireless g anywhere in the house.

Next one will have no moving parts at all and will run embedded Linux. Free, rock solid, and fast.

Whether Wintel or Apptel, you are stuck with an OS designed for about 100 time what you need and way pricey for the job. I do not want to do spreadsheets, just serve up music.

Dave

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Well I went out this weekend and did a A/B comparision of the Reda Apollo and the Cambridge Azur 840.  I decided that the 840 was a better choice.  They both sounded outstanding but I am not sure I have the right rack to support a top loading player such as the apollo.

Now the big question.  Music Servers?  What are your impressions of digital music?  Squeezebox or others?  Digital formats, FLAC Apple Lossless etc.?   Sound quality?

Just wondering if a Music Server with a squeezebox and a good DAC would be better served these days.

 Read a couple threads here on Klipsch and some other sites as well.

THXS

Well, my CD setup is a bit long-in-the-tooth but I've recently heard the Regas and an Audio Aero Capitole and the Capitole is a very impressive CDP. The stock Squeezebox is easy to install and operate and it sounds good but really can't compete with better CDPs - its sound is a little thin and compressed at the extreme frequencies. Bypassing the SB's analogue section and running it through a decent DAC will improve the sound a lot but it'll still come up short against better CDPs and such. There have been lots of discussion in the forums regarding modifications to the SB and some of the suggested mods include replacing the switching power supply, upgrading DACs, caps and adding digital transformers. I've heard the results are outstanding but having little soldering skills and less patience, I opted for a SB3 modified by Bolder Cables. It has the digital-only mod so I run it through my 10-year old DAC but in my setup, it sounds better than any CDP I've had in there. A friend modded his own SB3 and runs it through a DAC he built from a kit (I forget the name) and it sounded so much better than his Audio Aero, he couldn't justify keeping the $10K CDP.

FLAC, AIFF or some other lossless format is the the preferred way to upload CDs for the best sound - MP3, AAC and other compressed formats serve their purpose well on ipods as you can squeeze a lot of music into them. I upload in AIFF - it just sounded better when we compared formats and it works with iTunes so I can upload CDs and my wife can convert them to AAC when she downloads to her iPod.

We have a few Squeezeboxes in the house so it made more sense to go wireless. With this setup, each SB can play music or radio independently and besides, the 4TB server we use has a fan that is always on so we wanted to put it as far away from the stereo equipment as possible.

The stock Squeezebox will outperform most CDPs in its $300 price range but that doesn't take into account the cost of peripheral equipment (computer, storage, modem, etc.). A modified SB (@$1200 with PS) and a well-executed setup will better all but the most refined (read: $$$) digital sources...to my ears.

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>I upload in AIFF - it just sounded better when we compared formats

I am at a loss for what you mean. If this is a lossless format, there should be no sound difference between it and any other lossless format. That would be like opening a word doc saved as rtf and finding a different text in it.

Overall, I have a hard time following your setup (no criticism - if it sounds good it IS good) and it seems like a lot of extra expense and technological overkill. As you know, I believe Card Deluxe to be as good a DAC as is available, ESI Pro almost as good (multi-channel), and the new Intel HD audio chipset appears to be good enough for both purposes except in highly critical listening areas. I certainly concur that a remote RAID 5 or better server is the way to store music safely and out of the way.

My interest is to provide these things in a way accessible to Joe Audiophile. In spite of my streak of geek, that is me. I just want to turn it own, point the remote at it, and listen...at a price that doesn't ouch.

Dave

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Seems like MBS-5 cost around 500.00 to build. It is totally silent unless you put your ear against the case, as the only moving part is the HDD which I researched specifically for minimum noise. I store my music remotely on a Terastation NAS and it serves up quite glitchlessly over wireless g anywhere in the house.

Next one will have no moving parts at all and will run embedded Linux. Free, rock solid, and fast.

Whether Wintel or Apptel, you are stuck with an OS designed for about 100 time what you need and way pricey for the job. I do not want to do spreadsheets, just serve up music.

Dave

Well the HP media server I was reading about which I can no longer locate uses Linux supposed to be released this month. Also i believe the squeezebox software is linux compatable.

Right now I have a Comcast HD DVR in my rack and that think is obnoxiously loud so I want to make sure my music server is either dead silent or can be located in another room.

My whole house is wired with ethernet cables, no need for wireless except to control the remote if the music server is in a different location.

I guess I want the best of both worlds. That is a music server and DAC that is as good as a player like the Cambridge 840/ McIntosh MCD301.

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Seems like MBS-5 cost around 500.00 to build. It is totally silent unless you put your ear against the case, as the only moving part is the HDD which I researched specifically for minimum noise. I store my music remotely on a Terastation NAS and it serves up quite glitchlessly over wireless g anywhere in the house.

Next one will have no moving parts at all and will run embedded Linux. Free, rock solid, and fast.

Whether Wintel or Apptel, you are stuck with an OS designed for about 100 time what you need and way pricey for the job. I do not want to do spreadsheets, just serve up music.

Dave

MBS-5??????

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Interesting you should bring this up. I am in the process of designing a new server targeted at the vinyl loving, computer hating audiophile. The goal is a silent box running Linux from flash memory with an LCD screen on the front to allow selecting playlists and providing similar information as a CD player.

Dave

VERY interested, and may be able to help. (17 years UNIX sysmonster/BOFH, Linux user since Yggdrasil came on twelve floppies, done some serious embedded work reverse engineering customer-provided firmware EVERY DAM-N RELEASE! [;)] )

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">I upload in AIFF - it just sounded better when we compared formats

I am at a loss for what you mean. If this is a lossless format, there should be no sound difference between it and any other lossless format. That would be like opening a word doc saved as rtf and finding a different text in it..."

That's entirely possible Dave. I set this system up a couple of years ago using a Mac and at the time, my choices were FLAC (which doesn't work with iTunes), WAV (which didn't work in my system..period), Apple Lossless (that had a 'tick' between tracks) and AIFF. We pulled each of these formats (except WAV) along with 3 or 4 "lossy" ones, recorded tracks from Mighty Sam McClain's 'Give it up for Love' (JVC XRCD) and Bela Fleck's 'Outbound' CDs and burned them onto a CD. We played the formats randomly during several sessions and my wife and I both preferred the AIFF for lossless and AAC for her iPod. I have no idea why both of us came up with the same results but I felt more comfortable with our choice given that we used 4 ears instead of 2 and really couldn't think of a better listening test.

"...Overall, I have a hard time following your setup (no criticism - if it sounds good it IS good) and it seems like a lot of extra expense and technological overkill. As you know, I believe Card Deluxe to be as good a DAC as is available, ESI Pro almost as good (multi-channel), and the new Intel HD audio chipset appears to be good enough for both purposes except in highly critical listening areas. I certainly concur that a remote RAID 5 or better server is the way to store music safely and out of the way. My interest is to provide these things in a way accessible to Joe Audiophile. In spite of my streak of geek, that is me. I just want to turn it own, point the remote at it, and listen...at a price that doesn't ouch..."

Me too! I am not much of an audiophile and even less qualified as a geek so forgive me if I come across as ignorant. I'm actually not familiar with the 'Card Deluxe DAC' or 'ESI Pro' or "HD chipset' are or whether they are compatible with the mac I use to upload CDs. I really just wanted a network that was simple to set up (read: plug-n'-play) and enabled multiple network players to be used independently of each other.

My DAC is +10 years old with a 24/96 processor that I still prefer over the few more modern DACs I've tried out in my system. The Squeezebox was the best choice for me back when I was setting up the network - it's software meshed well with our iTunes library, was wireless, worked with a server and it had a useful remote. I'm sure there are more options available now but this was a good fit at the time and still works well. As for the expense, I spent $1200 for the server and 2 SB players, another $600 for the Bolder mod and $500 to bump the server's storage to 4 terabytes. My DAC/transport combo cost more than that 10 years ago so I don't feel like I spent too much for a better-sounding and more versatile addition to my system. I am always looking for a better mousetrap and would be very interested in your idea - just as long as I don't have to think too much - my brain bruises easily ;- )

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Interesting you should bring this up. I am in the process of designing a new server targeted at the vinyl loving, computer hating audiophile. The goal is a silent box running Linux from flash memory with an LCD screen on the front to allow selecting playlists and providing similar information as a CD player.

Dave

OOOooooo.... You can expect a PM when I can get to it!

Dave

VERY interested, and may be able to help. (17 years UNIX sysmonster/BOFH, Linux user since Yggdrasil came on twelve floppies, done some serious embedded work reverse engineering customer-provided firmware EVERY DAM-N RELEASE! Wink )

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Seems like MBS-5 cost around 500.00 to build. It is totally silent unless you put your ear against the case, as the only moving part is the HDD which I researched specifically for minimum noise. I store my music remotely on a Terastation NAS and it serves up quite glitchlessly over wireless g anywhere in the house.

Next one will have no moving parts at all and will run embedded Linux. Free, rock solid, and fast.

Whether Wintel or Apptel, you are stuck with an OS designed for about 100 time what you need and way pricey for the job. I do not want to do spreadsheets, just serve up music.

Dave

MBS-5??????

This is MBS-5. Several of the recordings that were so well recieved by the Forum were made with this device. Works on 12V to! I've run it in the woods with an LCD monitor off a 12V battery for hours. Double click and open full screen to see better detail.

Dave

post-9494-13819367893146_thumb.jpg

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Thanks. This things been in service longer than any other PC in the house. The power supply I just replaced is TINY. Same width as the plug and only 3 or 4 times as high. Fanless, of course...fan would be bigger! Via Epia 800mhz Eden fanless MOBO.

It was ahead of it's time and still up with most of the crowd.

But time to make another leap ahead!

Dave

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http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24160&RSKU=BA24160

You right now I'm a little down on CD Players. A year ago I would have never thought that I would be doing this right now.

I have a PC that I built myself to store all my music. Using the optical out of my Audigy Sound card into my McIntosh DAC. I have a terrabyte worth of storage in addition to the system standard Hardrive.

I use iTunes. Lossless. I looked into this a good bit. I got tired of the "free software" ad/or multiple different options with using FLAC. I always ran into "issues".

I don't have an iPod. I just rip into iTunes lossless. I get good results and have ditched the CDplayer concept. There were a lot of guys on the Audiokarma site that helped me get this going. Just about everybody thought that "lossless" was lossless. I therefore just went with iTunes.

The DAC unit I use is expensive but I can jack into it all kinds of stuff and get great results. It also serves as a preamp. I have an Oppo for movies.

If I change any it might be with the use of a squeezebox or the external M-audio unit just so that I can use the usb from the computer vs the optical out of a sound card. There is theory or myth that computers/cards...cand be "noisy". Not sure whether this is true or not. The squeezebox looks like a nice unit. I have no need to wire my whole house via wired or wireless. I just build a quiet hog of a PC......then just upgrade parts from time to time.

jc

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http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=BA24160&RSKU=BA24160

You right now I'm a little down on CD Players. A year ago I would have never thought that I would be doing this right now.

I have a PC that I built myself to store all my music. Using the optical out of my Audigy Sound card into my McIntosh DAC. I have a terrabyte worth of storage in addition to the system standard Hardrive.

I use iTunes. Lossless. I looked into this a good bit. I got tired of the "free software" ad/or multiple different options with using FLAC. I always ran into "issues".

I don't have an iPod. I just rip into iTunes lossless. I get good results and have ditched the CDplayer concept. There were a lot of guys on the Audiokarma site that helped me get this going. Just about everybody thought that "lossless" was lossless. I therefore just went with iTunes.

The DAC unit I use is expensive but I can jack into it all kinds of stuff and get great results. It also serves as a preamp. I have an Oppo for movies.

If I change any it might be with the use of a squeezebox or the external M-audio unit just so that I can use the usb from the computer vs the optical out of a sound card. There is theory or myth that computers/cards...cand be "noisy". Not sure whether this is true or not. The squeezebox looks like a nice unit. I have no need to wire my whole house via wired or wireless. I just build a quiet hog of a PC......then just upgrade parts from time to time.

jc

THanks for the comments jc. I was actually looking at that same pc case if I decided to build a HTPC for right next to my system. Why the USB port vs optical?

I also like the mini-mac option.

Also waiting to see if HP is coming out with there new system.

DAC's are another problem - I really want the sound of my music server/computer to be at least better then the Cambridge 840 and approaching a higher end player.

I am enjoying my new McIntosh and LSII's. The only old piece in my 2CH rig is the CD player which is 5-6 years old.

I should be movng into my new house in June so no pilgrimage for me this year.

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Why the USB port vs optical?

I don't have any real proof of one vs the other. I just noticed on Audiokarma...in the McIntosh section....that many of those MDA1000 owners went with the sqeezebox route using usb vs pc sound card. Maybe the "fear" of problems with clunky pc stuff. I'm not sure.

Not sure how much you were wanting to spend.....I think you mentioned earlier of the MAC new CD Player. Everyone likes their own thing but if it were my money, I would put that mula in the MDA1000 and all the digital sources that you have will be "transports". Again I would have never thought I would be doing what I'm doing. The MDA1000 is the heart of my system. When I leave it out, it is noted in a negative way. Of course...it is also the most expensive piece of equipment I have.

I love MAC stuff but I don't see CD Players as there strong point. BUT I'm no official on that. Mostly speculation, limited experience, and word of mouth from others......even MAC nuts.

jc

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