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Contacted Onkyo - Some Rep said Don't Recommend Bi-Wiring


Porsche

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I contacted Onkyo's USA corporate office, and selected their Product Support extension (#5).

I asked the lady that I got on the phone what she thought of bi-wiring, and all she said was:

"We don't recommend it. It takes too much power to do, and will damage the unit."

I don't know if this is the kind of answer they always give their customers, because they don't want any risk of damage to their receivers, but it's understandable, they simply don't want people fooling around causing a support nightmare for Onkyo.

However, is bi-wiring really that unsafe? I've spoken to atleast 15 audio dealers, referenced everyone's help here on Klipsch.com, and all of you said bi-wiring is okay to do.

I went ahead and bi-wired my setup. It sounds great! It's crystal clear (always has been), it might help that I went out and bought 26 gold-plated banana plugs too!

Do I really risk harming my receiver? Can my Onkyo 575X handle the fact that I've bi-wired my CENTER and FRONTS?

Cheers!

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Onkyo TX-DS575X(B) Receiver

Sony DVPS 560D DVD Player

Klipsch RF-3

Klipsch RS-3

Klipsch RC-3

Klipsch KSW-12 Subwoofer

Sony 32" WEGA TV

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There is absolutely no problem with biwiring and it does not take any more power to do than a regular speaker connection. What the onkyo rep was probably refering to was bi-amping which is another story. Biwiring in essence just increases the bandwidth you have to deliver electrical current to your speaker. By giving the tweeters and woofers separate cable runs, you are giving the amplifier less resistance to push electrical current through. This should result in a cleaner signal to your speaker. I noticed a difference with my speakers. Some don't. Don't worry though, if you do it correctly, there is no danger at all.

-UP

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Liv Tyler as Arwen: "If you want him, come and claim him!" - Translation: "I am very hot."

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Thanks Penguin! I just needed some piece of mind!

I have (yet another) a question about my volume loudness.

My Onkyo 575X has a volume digital readout, from 1 to about 70.

From 35 - 45 is about average listening levels. Not really too loud. For a DVD movie, if I want some real extra kicks, I bring it to 50 - 55. This is quite nice.

I don't see much loudness increase between 1 - 10, and from 10 - 25, but I do see quite a big difference between 30 - 40, 50 - 60 (NOTE: Only on DVDs - stereo CD's are pretty loud at those levels.)

Can I run my system at 60 - 65 without causing harm? My volume peaks out at 70. I'm wondering if my receiver is powerful enough for my system. It's quite clear at ALL levels. I'm truly impressed everytime I listen to my system. If I watch a movie at 65, it is truly LOUD. REALLY, REALLY LOUD. I'll likely not watch them at this level! heh heh

My question: Is it normal to bring the volume level up to 50+ to *really* have a nice loud ensemble when watching a DVD movie? (Between 50 - 60 you can really hear each dB increase.)

Quick summarization of questions (these questions are included above and are just repeated below):

1) Can I run at level 65, if it's not distorting (which it isn't), without worry?

2) Why do I have to turn the digital readout to 50+ to really have a nice loud movie? I hear everyone on here say they only turn it up 4 or 5 notches, and that's as loud as they go.

Thanks!

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Onkyo TX-DS575X(B) Receiver

Sony DVPS 560D DVD Player

Klipsch RF-3

Klipsch RS-3

Klipsch RC-3

Klipsch KSW-12 Subwoofer

Sony 32" WEGA TV

This message has been edited by Porsche on 01-18-2002 at 11:24 AM

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I would think that your receiver is ok for your speakers. If your receiver were underratted then you would most likely be getting distortion at that level. And you say that you aren't.

I am not sure why you have to turn it up so loud. . . what is the size of your room. In my listening room (small) I only have to set my receiver to 3 out of 10. This gets me to 75 dbs on my rat shack meter on the AVIA test CD. This brings me to another thought.

Have you calibrated your system?

Another thought is your sub. Is it powered? Or is it sucking up the power from your receiver. Also, how do you have your main speakers set. I have mine set to small so that the bass management system sends all the bass to my sub. I noticed a big difference between this setting and the large setting. On the large setting there wasn't a very good bass extension and this made everything seem quieter.

Hope this helps.

Mike

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Come on honey why can't I spend some more money?

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The size of my room is small as well. I don't have the exact specifics, but it's no bigger than an average-sized bedroom.

I have not calibrated my system - I'm not sure I understand what you mean by this. I suppose you mean have I used a listening meter/tester and positioned my speakers in all the right spots? It sounds great, I just was wondering why I start to notice the loudness in my system when I'm at 50+ on the volume control.

I have a powered subwoofer, the KSW-12. Everything on my system is set to LARGE (which brings me to another question - which takes precedence for the Speaker Size settings, the DVD Player or the RECEIVER? - They're set to LARGE on both). I was reading up on the SMALL vs LARGE debate, and I've decided to leave mine at LARGE.

If I set my SURROUNDS and MAINS + CENTER to all SMALL, will this increase the loudness at lower levels? Don't get me wrong, my system is LOUD, I just have to adjust the volume until it's 50+ out of 70.

P.S. My definition of LOUD might be louder than yours! I've always been prone to having things extra loud. FYI!

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Onkyo TX-DS575X(B) Receiver

Sony DVPS 560D DVD Player

Klipsch RF-3

Klipsch RS-3

Klipsch RC-3

Klipsch KSW-12 Subwoofer

Sony 32" WEGA TV

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Re: Volume Control settings-

My rule of thumb is to never run any amplifier beyond 3/4 on the level control as you run the risk of driving the amp into clipping which results in abnormally high voltages being sent to the tweeters,(also sounds like Hello when clipping is severe). Do not assume that clipping is not ocurring when you cannot hear it - even inaudible clipping can eat a tweeter.

The apparent diference in volume level change from one setting to another has to do with the design of the level control. Our ears do not respond in a linear manner to changes in volume and the controls are designed to compensate for that. In other words an amp that is being run with the volume control at the 12:00 position is not necessarily delivering 50% of its maximum rated output - It could be delivering more or less depending on the design. In addition the level control may be configured by its designer to allow more increase in gain between the 0 and 9:00 setting than in the range between 9:00 and 12:00 etc.

Re: Biwiring

I agree that so long as you are careful to avoid short circuits,(2x as many opportunities for Murphy to get an oar in), there is no reason to be concerned with your amp.

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It is meet to recall that the Great Green Heron rarely flies upside down in the moonlight - (Foo Ling ca.1900)

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3/4 of the level control of my receiver would be 52.5 on the volume readout (3/4 of 70 <70 being my maximum level> is 52.5).

However, going by what's been said, 52.5 may not actually be 3/4 of my total maximum rated output. It could technically be more or less. In my case, I would surmise less.

I could, let's say, increase my readout to 58 (which is the highest I would want it I think - 58 is adequately LOUD for my taste!) and this would more realistically, in my mind, indicate 75 - 80% of the maximum rated output.

If I just play CDs, which are generally louder than DVDs I've noticed (some DVDs are quieter - some are louder) they play great.

I could also increase my -/+ dB level on my speakers too. They're all set to 0 right now, and I think they can go -8 to +8 (or maybe it was -12 to +12).

Cheers.

------------------

Onkyo TX-DS575X(B) Receiver

Sony DVPS 560D DVD Player

Klipsch RF-3

Klipsch RS-3

Klipsch RC-3

Klipsch KSW-12 Subwoofer

Sony 32" WEGA TV

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Porsche, I have an Onkyo TX-DS595 and it is the same way, my max volume is 80 but normal listening ranges from 30-45 and it gets real nice and loud up around 50-55 (but still clean). I read somewhere else on this forum that some people thought that Onkyo recievers have 70% of their volume in the last 20% of the dial or something like that.

I've never really had it up higher than 55, it gets real nice and loud around there but the sound is still clean on not distorted so I don't think there is any danger in it.

Adam

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My Klipschorns are bi-wired using Monster the the bass end and DH Labs T-14 the top end.Have been this way for over a year.My Heresy center is bi-wired too.

With the Horns I ran the B outs to the bass section and the A side to the top end.The amp is rated to handle 1 ohm loads.

And I was able to crash XP home edition the other day,will they ever get it right.I don't think so......

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quote:

Originally posted by Porsche:

I asked the lady that I got on the phone what she thought of bi-wiring, and all she said was:

"We don't recommend it. It takes too much power to do, and will damage the unit."


I am sure that she thought you were asking about driving multiple speakers per channel ... a wire for each speaker(in parallel), hence bi-wire, right?!? That is the only reasonable assumption that would validate her response. Whether bi-wiring actually does anyone but the cable manufacture any good, well that is a subject I am not going to touch. If you think it provides superior results... go for it (worry free)!

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