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KS Musicmaster "point one five" TT


mike stehr

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Great job, maetro!

Hey, I like the pennies. The copper ties in with the red of the mahogany and really brings the whole design together.*

*Can you tell my wife has me watch HGTV?

Thanks, Gregg.

I swapped to a dime, with some blue tak. The dime matches the tonearm and TT base. ;)

I know, I know.....seeing pennies parked on a tonearm invokes childhood images of the portable record player, toneam packed with change, to get a good scrape on a 45.

This tone arm has a lead weight on the back that is rather heavy. It's really made for boat anchor cartridges that tie in with the period. Even the Stanton/Pickering 380 that Don (1st owner) had mounted, is a pretty light cart for that tonearm. But even the 380 is more of a tank than the Shure SC35C.

I'm still trying to wear in this stylus, but it still sounds a bit rolled-off.

I may find another stylus for the Stanton/Pickering 380 cart, if I still can......

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Do these "Old" as in "ancient" turntables have some merits going for them?... I have a few of them that I have pulled from consoles...Duals and Garrards?.

It sort of depends on where the particular Garrard or Dual falls in the product line. Some of the old Garrard idler drives still have merit. The older Dual rim drives seem like something worth toying with. Lenco is still a popular TT, Rek-O-Kut as well.

Most complain of platter rumble with a dler drive TT. I don't really hear it with the Musicmaster. I hear some low frequency flutter when it hits the run-out groove, that's all I can hear from it. This Musicmaster is about a primative idler drive as it can get.

It doesn't have near the amount of moving parts than the idler drive TT's mentioned above. It ain't the perfect device. I have a couple '70's era Dual TT's I should yank out and give another chance. A 601 and a 1219. But right now, the Musicmaster sounds better than from what I remember of the Dual TT's.

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Do these "Old" as in "ancient" turntables have some merits going for them?... I have a few of them that I have pulled from consoles...Duals and Garrards?.

It sort of depends on where the particular Garrard or Dual falls in the product line. Some of the old Garrard idler drives still have merit. The older Dual rim drives seem like something worth toying with. Lenco is still a popular TT, Rek-O-Kut as well.

Most complain of platter rumble with a dler drive TT. I don't really hear it with the Musicmaster. I hear some low frequency flutter when it hits the run-out groove, that's all I can hear from it. This Musicmaster is about a primative idler drive as it can get.

It doesn't have near the amount of moving parts than the idler drive TT's mentioned above. It ain't the perfect device. I have a couple '70's era Dual TT's I should yank out and give another chance. A 601 and a 1219. But right now, the Musicmaster sounds better than from what I remember of the Dual TT's.

Does anybody have a source for new Garrard idler wheels, I have a half decent one that has a bump in it that makes listening a real pain.
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Mike, that is a cool project! Did you veneer the plinth, or build it out of mahogany?

Thanks, Dave.

It's the original plinth that Don made for the TT.

It's just a hollow box type plinth, made from veneered mahogany plywood. I just sanded the old finish off, and then oiled it.

He built the entertainment center, the speaker cabinets, the RTR case, and the turntable plinth out of veneered mahogany plywood, with solid mahogany as well. He used a reddish stain, which I got the majority of it sanded out.

The veneer is nice and thick, which helped. I want to do the same to the entertainment center, but it will be a chore. While I like the reddish stain and finish Don did, the course of 50 years has kind of taken its toll with the finish. Not trashed, but not perfect.

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  • 6 years later...
On 1/17/2010 at 3:51 PM, mike stehr said:

After sitting dormant for about a year, I decided to give the Musicmaster a little TLC.

I bought a Shure SC35 cart/stylus and some silicone damping fluid. Sanded and oiled the plinth. I'm still tweaking things with the tonearm and experimenting with the VTF, spindle to pivot distance, and some slight ground noise problems.

It sound rather good so far. The SC35C sounds a bit rolled-off on top. But it has a real stiff cantilever and still needs to loosen up. I've got a little scale and have VTF set at 4.1 grams. Before I had the scale I had the VTF up almost at 6 grams. The cart/stylus is good for 4-5 grams. Seems to sound good at 4 grams. However, 5.8 grams sounded just as good.....still working on that.

I broke the law and had a Shure P mount 800E mounted on the Velvet Touch. I had to kinda pooge it in the cartridge slide (kasol), but once I dialed in in, it had a rather good sound. A little better on the top-end. The 800E has a elliptical stylus. The SC35C has a Sperical stylus. I'm wondering if I prefer the elliptical type........

The 800E has a VTF of .75 to 1.5 grams. A little light for this flintstone tonearm, and maybe a little rough on it, but it sure did sound good.............

This thing is fun to listen too, along with old school records.

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2 minutes ago, GregN said:

 

Hi Mike,

By now you've prob worked out I am crup with this forum stuff! Have just joined as I've the same model MMaster point one five as you posted. if you're still active I'd be keen to learn what you know :)

Thanks, Greg

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""Hi Mike,

By now you've prob worked out I am crup with this forum stuff! Have just joined as I've the same model MMaster point one five as you posted. if you're still active I'd be keen to learn what you know

Thanks, Greg""

 

I do still have my Musicmaster PO5.

It's been a busy year with overtime at work and home remodeling, so I haven't listened to the TT in quite some time.

The Velvet Touch tonearm does require a shielded cartridge. I had problems with hum using the Shure SC35C and the 800E P mount.

Even with those carts grounded, I had hum issues.

I bought a new stylus for the Stanton/Pickering 380 cartridge, (which has a metal body) swapped it back in and the hum went away.

With a new stylus the sound quality improved as well, with the midrange being the most improvement. Not as pronounced on the top-end as the Shure 800E, but not rolled-off sounding like the Shure SC35C. I prefer the 380 for the Velvet Touch, but I think this tonearm would sound best with a mono cart...not really too sure of that, however.

 

I did order a new idler wheel from eBay. The old idler wheel is still in good shape, but the rubber part of the wheel is a bit dried out and hardened.

(I'd like to find out a way to soften the rubber somehow...)

The idler wheel from eBay is an aluminum two piece unit, with a groove on the outside that has a rubber O-ring to ride against the platter.

It works well...

The TT motor should have little oil lines going to the top and bottom for lubrication. Each end of the motor has little cotton or some such pads for oil.

Mine either never had them or they were torn off.

The motor has a magnetic brake for dialing in the RPM. Good lord don't tear the motor apart...I was REAL lucky to get the unit to work properly after that.

The platter has felt grommet/gaskets with a oil reservoir. With the proper amount of oil the platter should spin on it's own for 30 seconds or better.

 

This turntable seems to play the records from it's era the best. Like the Space Age records, etc... Anything that was printed around the late 50's, early 60's.

 

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Hi and thanks for your replies and the welcome.

 

With such fast and detailed responses I'll need to get organized so that I can ask solid questions.
I have had my Music Master for about 2 years. It has lost the nameplate and I was told it was a NEAT when I bought it. Checking the web I decided that prob was not correct, but I didn't find this thread or much else at the time and am know just finding much better info.

I love its heavy and uncomplicated build and I won't part with it. I'm definitely in the category of 'love audio, love vinyl, love old gear, can't spend much $$' so am enjoy budget improvements done when I can find something cheap or make it myself. I've cleaned up the Musicmaster and made a temporary plinth from old pine table-tops. I intend to build a constrained-layer plinth and couple the top-plate to it.  Acos GST-1 arm and Ortofon 2M Red. I have double stacked rubber platter mats from a Technics SL1700 and a HKardon, as they were the best I had in my collection. From what I can hear I'm sure there is a lot more to be gained from servicing and improving the set-up. 
Mine does have the oil tubes. I did enjoy pulling the motor apart. It's a good old beast! I hear a fair bit of rumble but it looks like everything is the old original so am not surprised. But it still sounds much better than my Dual 1219. Can I ask where you bought a new idler wheel? I'd like to replace mine to see how it sounds. I'd also like to replace the motor mounting bushes if I can find an alternative.

The platter is lighter than the build of the top-plate & motor. It would be nice to machine a new heavier platter & bearing :)

 

 

 

 

20140805_011651web.jpg

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On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 2:31 AM, GregN said:

Can I ask where you bought a new idler wheel?

 

Er, it was from eBay. But I can't recall the seller...it's been five, six years since I've bought it.

I blew through eBay with a idler wheel search for K&S Musicmaster. I didn't see anything. I was surprised I had seen one listed in the first place. That's why I purchased the idler wheel.

 

I guess it's Fall now, probably time to unearth the beast and lash it up with the Scott LK48B. It's a nice combo for listening to old rekerds.

 

I like the large plinth you have, and that's a budget option using pine tabletops. I would eventually like to do the same, so one can mount two tonearms; one for mono, and a more modern arm for stereo.

I dunno about milling out a heavier platter, with respect to load on the motor...it may tax it too much...

Now a replacement motor would be a really nice option.

 

One thing I have noticed is most of the Musicmaster turntables only have half of a top plate, with half the platter exposed to nothing.

I've only seen a couple that have the full top plate enclosing the circumference of the platter...and yours is one of them.

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Thanks. Yes, I've seen the half top plate version around the web. A friend let me know of this ru site with lots of examples and restos. He is Russian so will have to interpret a few questions for me maybe, but it is an interesting source for seeing K&S Musicmaster.  http://forum.soundup.ru/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=979&hilit=Musicmaster

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  • 5 years later...

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