Charles Turner Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 After a successful and rewarding build of Mark's Tercel last Christmas I have my eyes set on a vintage Thorens TD 124. I will keep my Rega P25 - Micro Benz H2 combo for a reference point but I would like to rebuild/build up a TD 124. I have found a wealth of information on the web and, with a bit of patience, seems to be something I will find fun and rewarding. I will probably couple it with a SME 3009 arm (or a SME 3012 if I can find one at a reasonable price) and decide on the plinth and cartridge as I get more into the project. Question: if I find a nice one...probably on ebay...what suggestions does anyone have on how to package and ship it. I read a thread recently on this site between Allan, Scott, and Gary about rebuilding one so perhaps they have some recommendations on shipping. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on what to look for, eg things that could be wrong with one of these that is either difficult or expensive to repair, it would be appreciated. Same question on SME arms thanks in advance BTW...this will be used in line with the Tercel, a McIntosh C15 SS pre, a McIntosh MC225, and Cornwalls with ALK crossovers in a vinyl only system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Sounds like a great project. I had a pair in the seventies. Kinda wish I'd never sold them when I see what they're going for these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I have one (see avatar) that was rebuilt by the famed Jean Nantais (Lenco/Home Depot thread on agon) sitting in a beautiful cherrywood plinth, mated to a SME 3009 II arm and Zu Audio modified DL-103R cartidge, and it sounds simply stunning! I am using it with VRD's and BBX Xtreme w/Cream, and my modified La Scala's. Other than Garymd's similar system (VRD's/BBX w/Cream) with Basis/Transfiguration/Khorns, I haven't heard anything that even approaches it. I think these tables are giant killers when gone over and setup properly. Take your time in looking for one. I do not have the skills to work on them myself so found one that needed nothing other than the tonearm and cartridge. These things mate perfectly to the SME 3009/3012 tonearm w/SPU or Denon DL-103 cartridge. If you opt for the latter I recommend you spend the extra $100 for the 103R... it's worth it and more! Good luck in your quest for finding one, and in the end I think you will be glad you did. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Good for you, Charles! I have one currently being restored by the famed fini [], and it's almost done! Definitely a doable project if you've got reasonable mechanical skills. I rebuilt the motor, replaced the platter bearings, upgraded to silicone motor grommets, etc. So far, so good! I checked the "spin-down" time from 33-1/3 to stop, and it was 89 seconds. Not bad! (Mike, what's yours? Just curious. Spin it at 33-1/3, then off, seeing how long it takes to stop). I'm happy to assist in any way possible. Yes, lots of good info on the web! I've sifted through it, and have a few tips of my own, including hard-to-find sources of materials (well, it was hard for me...[]). I'd seriously try to find one locally so 1.) you don't have to risk shipping damage, and 2.) You can personally check it out. If you end up having to have it shipped, check out this thread, where Allan shipped one to Gary. Excellent packing job! Keep me informed, and good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Oh, if you go with the Denon cartridge Mike suggested, you'll have to budget for a step-up transformer. And if you get a SME arm with it, make sure it's not a Series II Improved (doesn't mate well). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 I checked the "spin-down" time from 33-1/3 to stop, and it was 89 seconds. Not bad! (Mike, what's yours? Just curious. Spin it at 33-1/3, then off, seeing how long it takes to stop). I'll let you know tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Oh, if you go with the Denon cartridge Mike suggested, you'll have to budget for a step-up transformer. And if you get a SME arm with it, make sure it's not a Series II Improved (doesn't mate well). Yep... the Series I or II is fine with the Denon, but not the Series II Improved, unless you are going with a lightweight Shure or something similar. You already have the Tercel... have Mark put in the Cream for you if you don't have the step-up. You won't believe how much better it can sound over similarly priced MM's. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Forgive my ignorance, but just what does "spin down time" prove? All that should matter is does it spin at a constant speed when you are playing a record. How does spin down or even up matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Cain Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Forgive my ignorance, but just what does "spin down time" prove? All that should matter is does it spin at a constant speed when you are playing a record. How does spin down or even up matter? You make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Oh, if you go with the Denon cartridge Mike suggested, you'll have to budget for a step-up transformer. And if you get a SME arm with it, make sure it's not a Series II Improved (doesn't mate well). Excellent suggestions, Greg. Do a search on AA for Cinemag CMQEE-3440A SUT. I am using these with Denon 103R and I am very happy wth the result. Kudret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Forgive my ignorance, but just what does "spin down time" prove? All that should matter is does it spin at a constant speed when you are playing a record. How does spin down or even up matter? It's simply a measure of how freely the platter spins. Less friction, y'know. I just replaced the platter bearings and wanted to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 89 seconds, cool.........I managed to get the ol' Musicmaster to do it 50 seconds. I wonder if it would be worth getting a modern tonearm for this old transcription turntable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Mine took 51 seconds. I would guess I need to oil the bearing. fini, I have the oil in some syringes some guy from Germany sent me. How difficult is this procedure and do you have any tips so I don't screw something up? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 89 seconds, cool.........I managed to get the ol' Musicmaster to do it 50 seconds. I wonder if it would be worth getting a modern tonearm for this old transcription turntable. Let me know if you want to sell that Grey clone that it came with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Mike, I wouldn't say you necessarily have a problem. It's easy to replace the oil, though. Carefully remove the upper (aluminum) platter, then VERY carefully lift off the main platter, making sure you lift straight up. You can now look into the bearing housing. You can use a lint-free cotton cloth to wipe and dab the oil. You should be able to see the thrust pad at the bottom of the well. Examine it for "dimpling," an impression made from the ball bearing on the end of the platter shaft. I replaced my bearings with sintered bronze (they were nylon), which Thorens switched to in later models. I also changed that dimpled thrust pad (made of teflon, I think) with a metal one (stainless) purchased from that same guy in Germany (Joel Boutreux, an ex-Thorens employee j.boutreux@gmx.de). That may be why mine spins for so long? Anyway, you can add oil at this point. The amount of oil to use is debateable. I've heard of people filling the well enough so that when the shaft is inserted, the exess oil squeezes out the top (which you must clean up). Not a good idea, IMHO. I guess the best answer is "enough." I'm actually trying to decide on this as well. The oil I use is Marvel Air-Tool Oil, as recommended by Steve Clarke at The Analog Dept. He has a great website, and has answered several of my detailed questions. The oil Joel sent you is great, too. They're both pretty thin (the Marvel Air-Tool Oil looks like automatic transmission fluid), but I've heard recommendations to use thicker oils if the bearings are worn (and noisy). Useful Links: The Analog Dept. Thorens TD-124 Tech Pages Great Photos by our forum's own Scott Anderson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Let me know if you want to sell that Grey clone that it came with. I never considered selling it, but if I do, you'll be the one..... Sukuma San used a cast version, IIRC. I'm thinking there was more than one Japanese brand clone of the American made Gray tonearm. Let's see.......Grace? Neat? Calrad, which I think was through Radioshack. And Velvet Touch. I can't recall which brand had the cast tonearm, Sukuma mentions it on the website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Turner Posted May 13, 2008 Author Share Posted May 13, 2008 Thanks for the responses and encouragement. I've started watching the auction sites and the TD124 seems to go for between 500 and 900 dependant on condition...the 3009 and 3012 seem to be all over the map on prices though. Thanks fini...I'm thinking of doing the same things you did...rebuild the motor, replace the platter bearings, upgrade to the silicon motor grommets, replace the mushroom grommets, replace the strobe light, and thoroughly clean and polish the enameled top. I suspect there are some rubber parts that could/should be replaced on the sme as well and I plan to replace the funky connector with rca jacks. I may have some more questions on part sources once I get started. The muli layered mdf plinth seems to be the prefered mounting but I am considering making a larger plinth using this design and building it into a table with 4x4 posts and bracing. It will also house the Tercel on the lower shelf. BTW I built the Tercel with the Cream, auricaps, and upgraded transformer. This project should enterain me for about a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Cool, Charles! Ask away, I'm glad to help. Here's the place to get those silicone grommets. About half the price of those on eBay. Order 3 (for the MKI) or 6 (for the MKII) of part number V10Z61MA2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 When Allan shipped mine, he sent with it a quart of Mobile 1 synthetic oil, apparantly the preferred lubricant for the 124s. I've been meaning to check the dipstick to see if I need an oil change but it still seems to spin just fine. I suppose I'll get to it soon though just to be safe. Mine takes about 5 minutes to reach the correct speed. Not uncommon for this table. Allan's takes about 15 minutes I think. My ears really can't tell the difference though. I agree with most of the comments I've read although I bought my 124 for one purpose. I bought an SPU mono cart and use the table exclusively to play my old mono jazz records. To use the SPU, you really need an original SME arm with the big weight on the back. Mine tracks at about 4 grams. As wondeful as my Basis sounds, it can't compare to the 124 when playing those old mono LPs, particularly the RVG engineered Blue Notes and Prestige pressings. I've never heard this table with a Denon but I'm sure it sounds great. Allan did a great job packing it as you saw in the other thread. Just make sure it is completely disassembled. It's very easy to set up. Much easier than it appears. If I could do it, a monkey can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hi Bill... what's your point? I'm using a 50 year old table with a 40 year old tonearm, and a cartridge that has been in existence since 1962, and I'll put it up against any table/arm/cart being made today for less than $3K. Bring your 1200's down to Florida and let's see which table sounds better. I'm not a betting man but my money is on the Thorens. To keep this thread on track I am attaching a pic of my multi-layered plinth for the original poster. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.