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Cary CAD-300SE Signature?


Beatjunky

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First of all does anyone know the difference between this unit and the "not-signature?" Also can someone tell me if this is a good deal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1324265459

Seems strange considering on the Cary homepage these units retail for $5k a piece. I am thinking about buying these, does anyone have any input or experience with these? How do they compare to the 2A3-SE?

BTW Mobile and Jazman - that EICO HF-81 I picked up off ebay two weeks back finally arrived and sounds GREAT hooked up to the Khorns. I must say I was quite surprised. Kicks the shiat out of my Yamaha HTR-5240. =)

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moon_group2.jpg

The original Cary 300se Monoblocks were the VERY first Single-Ended Triode amp I ever heard back in 89-90. To say it was a magical system is an understatement. At the time, I can honestly say I had NEVER heard anything approaching the musical nature of these 8-9w monoblocks. The realness and utterly staggering sense of a palpable nature has never been equaled in a showroom...either before or sense. There almost seemed to be NO veiling and the soundstage was HUGE easily extending over 15 feet BEHIND the speakers. Of course that was 12 years ago and things can be romanticized within ye olde skull cap. Still, it was the first amp that ever truly brought me to tears, even with music I didn't even like. I don't think they had the extension even of my current amps. But that whole system anchored by those original Cary 300B SET amps held me in a grip like no other amp - it was not as if I was listening to music as much as I was IN the music...the kind of interaction that brings chills and even embarrassment when caught... And this system employed speakers that were an easy load, but not the super sensitive nature of something like a vintage Klipsch (ProAc Mini Towers - I ended up buying the pair from Dennis Had).

I still think the little 9 watt 300se was better than the famous Cary 805 amps. They surely sounded more real and life-like to me. The 805 just didn't have the magic, even though it was far more powerful.

The original Cary has 1 6SN7, 1 300B output, and one GZ-37 rectifier. They have since changed the circuit and the configuration for the Signature Edition. They have increased the juice to the 300B, employed TWO 6SL7 tubes in the driver/input stage and changed the GZ-37 to the 5R4 "potato masher" rectifier, which is the funky tube with the plastic base. The model you are looking quotes 15w of power but that is stretching it a bit and running at high voltage which can be taken since they are now employing the KR300B tube which is rugged and can, indeed, take more juice/current. I personally have not liked the other KR tubes such as the KR2A3 but have not heard the 300B KR yet. The new Signature version also employs oil filled coupling caps which were not in the original model.

I think the price they are quoting in that ebay ad is absurd as they are definitely going for less. You can find them with the more soulful and valuable Western Electric 300B for even less than this (or at least the buy it now price). The original 300se are going in the $1500-1700 neighborhood.

I think the Cary 300se has an intensely musical and captivating midrange while not quite being as extended nor as powerful sounding with heavier music. The midrange is magical though...

Personally, I would not get these unless they happened to stay below 2000 or so. $1800 would be a deal if you wanted the pair (but I would prefer the Western Electric 300B over the KR). In comparison with my Moondogs, the 2A3 will probably go lower in the bass and will sound more open and a bit more neutral... possibly more clear. I think the Moondogs are a step over the Cary 2A3se since they have better transformers. But the 300b is a more powerful tube and a bit more romantic sounding. Some people prefer the 2A3 and some prefer the 300B. Both have engaging qualities.

I wish I had both....

f>s>

kh

system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s>

ps - A final thought... I know I have been bantering about SET amps... but a good push pull amp has its own magic. In fact, there is a AES "Superamp" DJH amp that is supposedly very nice bringing a little bit of he SET sound to push pull efficiency. This version of the "Superamp" has better transformers, a choke filtered power supply, better coupling caps, and film caps in the power supply. You can try differnt ouput tubes in this amp. Right now, there is one for 1399 or so on AudiogoN. There are also a few other SET options there. A number just sold, however. Dont expect the Superamp to equal the midrange purity of the 300se with Western Electric(or even the KR), though.

pps - The price of the current Cary 300se is 5k for the pair, not for each monoblock. Also, great news concerning the EICO... That amp has the potential when tweaked of putting MANY amps under the table, including other big name tube amps.

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-21-2002 at 07:24 AM

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beatjunky,

It's good to know other ears are impressed by the HF81. I don't claim audiophile expertise, but I really enjoy the sound from this unit. Please pass on your impressions of bass response from your Khorns with the HF81 and the type of music you typically listen to. My EICO is only being used in a 2 channel music setting, mostly Jazz, and I have not felt the need for a sub woofer that many in the Forum feel is needed with Belles and Khorns. I do not intend this as not a question to stir a debate. Just asking for beatjunky's impression.

mobile,

check your email.

Klipsch out.

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300se_bank2.jpg

I wanted to add one thing in relation to the Cary 300se monoblocks. When I did hear them, they were used with this, at the time, experimental bank of caps for the power supply you see in between a modified pair of 300se above. IT was with this contraption, later released and called the "SE-POWER BANK" that the amps exhibited such sonics. The bass was very good, which has been a complaint about the Cary 300se monos at times. And the sound was just about as natural as anything I have heard. I know some here could care less about the soundstage...but this combo put the biggest soundstage up I have ever heard with a sense of each instrument having its own space and sound, but without sounding pulled apart in any way.

I saw this pair above go on ebay for about $1500 or so with the caps which was a great deal. IF anyone IS interested in the Cary 300se, keep an eye out on this addition which practically makes it a new amp. Highly recommended.

kh

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-22-2002 at 12:06 PM

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Thanks for the input Mobile. It's always well detailed and somewhat unbiased. =) As far as the EICO goes Jazman I can honestly say that right now I have found no need for a seperate sub. The bass is almost too much on certain tracks and cd's. I have been listening to alot of Radiohead, Herbie Hancock, Miles Davis, and an array of drum and bass and have been more than adequately satisfied with the music I have been receiving. For those who have an EICO HF-81 and Khorns and say that there isn't enough bass I suggest you go pick up a copy of Massive Attack's cd with the songs "Three" and "Protection" on the same cd. I forget the title of the cd itself but listen to "Three" at a level of 3-5 on the EICO and make sure you don't have any pictures hanging on the walls. Take care all.

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Indeed...they are biased as hell! heh... Of course, after listening to this gear and making and playing music of all types for my entire life, I dont mind sharing the bias to others..I hope to receive the same. At times in my past, I wish someone had given my some great "to buy" tips. That is one thing so great about the internet. It's amazing the amount of communication and information that is shared, some bad some good... Actually, it feels good to hear that someone found an amp or component you recommended take them to a higher place musically. Others have done the same for me and I'll always be thankful.

kh

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-22-2002 at 04:41 PM

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  • 10 months later...

----------------

On 1/21/2002 12:21:00 AM mobile homeless wrote:

"I think the Moondogs are a step over the Cary 2A3se since they have better transformers."

----------------

Being a tube-guitar-amp-freak I have great respect for OT's - but have little experience on SET OT's.

I'm re-plunging into the Audiophile world -- and just bought a Cary 2A3se to go with my just bought K-Horns. None of this can be set up until March'ish, when the house is completed, but I wonder if it is possible to upgrade the OT's on the Cary 2A3se ... Any Suggestions?

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One of the problems with the Cary 2A3se and upgrading the output transformers is the fact that the Cary SET amps all employ potted transformers which they actually do at their factory. Technically, you might be able to get Cary to pot some transformers of your choice provided they have a case big enough for the outpuut that will fit on that chassis.

To be honest, I am not sure what output transformers Cary does use for the 2A3se monos. They might be Hammonds actually. There have been all sorts of rumors. I am trying to remember how big the pots are. Two candidates that would probaly be an upgrade are:

1. MagneQuest DS-025: I have this transformer with my Welborne Labs 2A3 Monoblocks and it's an excellent transformer. It has a VERY powerful bottom end with excellent definition/articulation. This is a transformer that makes you wonder how this could possibly be 3.5w. The mids are extremely open and clear. Highs are very natural and extended. It's provides a fast sounding presentation depending on circuit. One of the best 2A3/300b tranformers out there. Wavelength Audio used to use this unit but not sure if they are currently using this version (Gordon does use MQ transformers - The 025 might be in the Duetto 300B). I do believe Fi offers this as an option too.

2. MagneQuest TFA-204: This is the output transformer in the Wright Sound 3.5 2A3 Monoblocks. Bottlehead also offers this transformer as an upgrade to the Paramours. This unit might also be employed by Wavelength Audio in a few of their designs. Ditto with Fi as well. It is less expensive than the DS-025 and quite a bit smaller in size. The magic of this transformers is a VERY liquid and sublime midrange, probably its greatest strength. It is not as extended as the DS-025 but still have VERY nice lows and highs.

I do believe that AES, Cary's kit division actually offered one of the MAgneQuests as an option so they might even have one of these two. I am not sure if they will admit it being better than their own, however.

The Cary 2A3 is run VERY hot coming in at 5w supposedly. It has not received quite teh glowing comments that others have, however. I think tube choice helps here. Actually, I am not sure whether I would keep the Carys and trade iron or sell them and opt for something else.

Perhaps some more info from your end on your tastes musically and room etc.

kh

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That is so funny that this tread was resurrected from such a long time ago.

I am actually Beatjunky in another life. No actually I just took a hiatus from this board in the summer months and when I came back I just signed up for a new name.

Mobile. As far as the 300B amps are concerned I just, about two weeks ago, negotiated a purchase from a man in Denver the Welborne Laurels 300B's with the ultimate upgrades package off of audiogon. They should be arriving within the next day or two and I am "amped" for lack of a better word. I did ask the seller about the transformers, knowing from your posts that the older one's had the Magnequest's, and they ended up having the Electraprints. Hopefully those will be adequate for the time being. I also purchased a somewhat brand new Cary/AES AE-3 DJH version pre from a friend of mine last week. I hope that the two of these together start producing some wonderful sound through my khorns.

Now all I need to do is finally send my Eico to Craig for some updating and figure out a way to turn my AA networks in to the A's. I am a bit concerned though because most of the pictures for the AA's I have been seeing lately are the one's with oil. Mine simply have two yellow caps and that is about it. I hope they are the stock crossovers...I will have to research this further.

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----------------

On 12/19/2002 2:48:59 PM mobile homeless wrote:

Actually, I am not sure whether I would keep the Carys and trade iron or sell them and opt for something else.

Perhaps some more info from your end on your tastes musically and room etc.

kh

----------------

Well I look at it as a beginners project. Having bought it used ($700 at my door) the investment wasn't TOO bad, hopefully I will lose only a little as I develop a better ear - and trade up as needed.

As for musical tastes - right now it's rock-a-billy and groovy-blues. I had 800 records and 600 CD's from Bach to Mingus to the Beatles and Beyond, but they, along with my Thorens and Cornwalls were all distroyed in a fire. Now it's time to rebuild. I have replaced a lot with MP3's (don't get TOO mad, they were free off the internet), and doubt I'll go back to Vinyl. My Los Lobos was replaced with real CD's, and I bought Beck's Sea Change, and Jamie Hartford's Live at the Gibson Cafe. I also have the Specialty Records 5-CD set.

While making recommendations, how about a CD player going right into the Cary 2A3se? How about 2A3's? I have a bunch of nice 6SL7's and various rectifiers from my guitar amps.

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I personally think a preamp mates better with a 2A3 SET and Klipsch than a passive unit. Although I will admit, the passive preamp, such as the Creek OBH-12, is about the cheapest way to get very transparent results compared to the average preamp that tends to degrade the sound.

The problem here is that I think a bit of the body and midrange warmth gets taken with this approach. This is where a really good tube preamp comes in play. I actually think it's the ultimate way to go, especially since, in my view, the preamp is one of the most important piece of gear in the chain since it is dealing with signals as such low levels. Since you are going for something in the 2A3 vein, I dont think you should skimp on the preamp. But there are some lower cost used options that are worth a look.

As for the CD player with a variable output, I think this is a compromise as well and wouldnt go this route. Most volume pots on CD players are very low quality. If you DO have a machine with a variable output, it's best to leave it at full for the least impact (or opt for fixed outs as some players have).

Since you spent such an amazingly LOW amount on your Cary 2A3se, I would ditch the transformer upgrade idea and put the funds into a good tube preamp and quality CD player. I still am surprised as this $700 figure for the Cary 2A3. Are you talking about the 2A3 Monoblocks or a stereo 2A3 amp? Most of the stereo 2A3s are integrateds. There is a more rare 2A3 push pull from Cary floating about but you dont see if very often.

As for CD player, what is your budget? I think that will set what you can get. Remember, the source will be important with your other gear you have assembled.

kh

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This is a stereo 2A3 amp, just bought off eBay, Item 1945189862. I didn't think is was super cheap, but maybe it was ... ??

I'm OK with a Preamp - just have NO idea what to get, and my guitar amp experience tells me, in general, less is more.

I really don't have a CD player budget, or a preamp budget for that matter - it's a little what-ever it takes, but we are not a bottomless pit. Several hundred each would be OK, over a thousand combined would be a very difficult sell. Buying used works for me, let the new owners take the depreciation, and I'll hang onto the resale.

FWIW, I'm combining this with a Home Theater system (K-horn fronts, Heresy rears, RS7 sides, RC& front, no subs (unless forced later on into SVS'ers or something), but this 2-channel will be isolated via some switch or cord swap to dedicate it for when I get my time. The room is huge, 36 deep, 30 wide, 12 foot ceiling.

Thanks for your your help.

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