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TRADE A PAIR OF RF-7s FOR CORNWALLS??


RobCurran

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Be a good question for 'Tweakers Asylum',

wouldn't it?

I brought it up last year, they claim black

is better.

But these are the same folks who color

and freeze cds, freeze cables, put sandbags

on there cd players, make oddball platforms

with bearings, spoons, swapping power cords more

than the material than they listen to, or whatever

bizarre things they come up with.

The latest that blows me away, is the 'Amber tweak'

you pay $200, $250 for some cheesy looking

amber chunks with some other stones, configured

in what looks like a necklace.

You put these on your gear, makes them 'sound better'

LOL!

There is some tweaks on that particular forum

that do have some relevance.

Oh yeah, uh...Cornwalls, RF-7's, nice, blah, blah...

THANX!

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ED -

I guess I forget how long Klipsch had been manufacturing the Corwalls, but the last run of these speakers were MDF.

I still cannot see purchasing a 20-year-old speaker verse new ones. Believe me, I am not questioning the sound and/or quality of a Cornwall. If I had the money in college I would have purchased them instead of the KG4's. I still cannot see spending $800 to $1,000 on a pair of 20-year-old speakers. What about natures natural wear and tear? What does it cost to replace the Cornwall's woofer??

I know you purchased your for $500, but I am going with general E-BAY sales.

Moit

This message has been edited by Moit on 01-27-2002 at 03:48 AM

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WOW!!! There is a lot of turf defending from both Reference and Heritage owners.

Sorry Stu Pidass for jumping on your case. Your Username, Stu Pidass, puts a bias on how I read your post. Image that! So please, you and Ears continue ribbing each other. Maybe Klipsch should start a new forum called Sh*t Talking. That way, guys like me - who have a hard time reading between the lines - would know where people are coming from.

Ill have a hard time finding a store in Virginia Beach in which I can A/B test these two wonderful lines of speakers. From judging these posts, it would be worth my time to find one.

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moit

I still cannot see purchasing a 20-year-old speaker verse new ones. Believe me, I am not questioning the sound and/or quality of a Cornwall. If I had the money in college I would have purchased them instead of the KG4's. I still cannot see spending $800 to $1,000 on a pair of 20-year-old speakers. What about natures natural wear and tear? What does it cost to replace the Cornwall's woofer??

The question to ask is: Why are people spending this much? There must be a reason. The 20 year old woofer in most cases won't need replacement. I have not heard of any needing replacement other than for damage from abuse.

------------------

http://www.geocities.com/mpgwagon/bigolhorn.html

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Good to see you all in a brutal brawl.Its about the only forum where oldtimers(read farts)fight with the new generation.As funny as ever

First I say paper cones sound more natural than the "cerametallic" cones.Its a fact jack,the "new" R series have some tendency to sound "metallic" on some material.

Second MDF is less resistant to wear than say plywood.

Third,I would not buy a 20 year old speakers unless I could inspect the drivers.All drivers will deteriorate with time.All drivers with any suspension(rubber or foam)will break(the sourround will crack,dry out).And reconing is a must(often reconing changes the sound in a bad way).

Klipsch should bring back the paper cones in their speakers.The nice looking "cerametallic" cones are as fragile as a fly.Prone to damage even if a interconect hits the cone,fragile like dollar store speakers.

And the "real wood" finish is as thick as paper,just dont scratch the speaker by mistake.You can peel the cheap finish like wall paper!Frown.gif

KLIPSCH should learn how to use quality finishes.The "Reference" speakers "real wood" finish is cheap and belongs in $500 and under mass market junk.

Again I have to bring your hated make...Dynaudio.Yes Dynaudio their real wood finish makes Klipsch "real wood" finish look and feel like Dollar store fake wood covering! Frown.gif

COME ON KLIPSCH WHAT IS THIS ?!

TheEAR(s) Now theears

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quote:

I know I have a tendency to get anal from time to time and everyone here just puts up with me and responds with class post after class post.


Not a problem....least we know you're not dead. In fact, your boyish exuberence is quite refreshing, in an anal kind of way.....Smile.gif

quote:

Please become ONE with your Klipsch Specifications before speaking out of line. The Cornwalls are MDF with a Real Wood Finish, just like the RF 7s. I happen to own a set of KG-4s and RF 7s, and the cabinets are both very well built. I am not trying to compare the KG-4s to the Cornwalls, but the cabinet construction is the same.


As stated by many and supported here as well, my '83's are 3/4ply.

quote:

One more thing, Klipsch speakers do hold up remarkably well, but everything does deteriorate with age and use. It may happen so gradually that you dont notice it. Speakers are subjected to change in air temperatures, humidity, and ultraviolet sunlight; these will eventually take a toll on older speakers. Not to mention they do have moving parts that simply cannot perform like new if they were built in the late 80s.


quote:

I still cannot see purchasing a 20-year-old speaker verse new ones. Believe me, I am not questioning the sound and/or quality of a Cornwall. If I had the money in college I would have purchased them instead of the KG4's. I still cannot see spending $800 to $1,000 on a pair of 20-year-old speakers. What about natures natural wear and tear? What does it cost to replace the Cornwall's woofer??


Hmmmm....My pre '55 Khorns are as pristine as the day they were shipped. The woofers look and sound like they were mfg'd this morning. Damn near 1/2 century later and I still have not found an equal.

quote:

Led Zeppelin III sounds like Robert Plant is in my living room performing live.


I too favor the mighty Zep. Floyd, Skynyrd and Stevie Ray are up there on my list as well. However, the missus came home last night with 'Immortal Beloved' on DVD. You know, the Beethoven flick. Been awhile since I'd heard classical through the Khorn/Belle/Cornwall setup. Oh my. What sound. I cannot imagine an 'RF7' could do justice to this. Grandeur. Talk about in your living room performing live. Anyone who thinks that this sound is 'like a PA' simply has not experienced. Subtle and powerful with dynamics like words can never fully explain.

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Ed

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Moit---Don't worry about speaker drivers wearing out, they are the simplest of machines and can last decades. I personally have a pair of Altec 15s made in 1957 that sound great and I have a pair of Altec 515B 15s made in the 1960s that sound better than any Klipsch ever made, including Heritages. There are hornies who swear by 1930s Western Electric speakers and horns, see what they go for on Ebay. The fact is that good loudspeakers were pretty much perfected in the 1930s by the efforts of Bell Labs, MGM and RCA. You have a couple of new wrinkles in the 40s with the KHorn and the Altec VOT, more of implementation than basic technology. Most changes in speaker technology have been to make bad speakers better not improving the already good ones. You put a 2" diameter aluminum diaphram in a 15-19kgauss field and feed it through a phase-plug into a horn, this was the best way to do 500 cycles on up in 1937 and it's still the best way. Titianium was introduced as a diaphram material in 1982 by JBL, not for better sound quality but for better reliability. There is still no better sounding woofer than the Altec 515 introduced in 1945. 3" edgewound voicecoil, 14kgauss field provided by a 4.5 pound Alnico magnet, aluminum frame and fanatical attention to quality and precision of construction. VERY few woofers today are built as well and they're made by JBL, McCauley, EV and such, not Klipsch. The RF Series are not speakers made with few compromises in mind, they are chock full of compromises to size and cost. Running the bass drivers to 2200 cycles will introduce large amounts of IM distortion and you also give-up directional control of the midrange. But it's cheaper than a dedicated mid driver and horn and gives a smaller box too. I won't argue preference but the technology of the RFs is nowhere near state-of-the-art.

For that checkout the efforts of Bruce Edgar, TAD, JBL and others. Look at the K2 that JBL sells in Japan, now there's a sota horn speaker.

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"What is your opinion on black anodized heat sinks having better cooling properties than non-anodized heat sinks?"

I think these people are confused by a physics principle of black body radiation. Something painted black will radiate better than as the same thing painted white. The only problem is that the main mechanism involved in heatsink heat transfer is not radiation but conduction and convection. The heat is conducted throughout the heatsink and then into the air surrounding it. Convection causes the heated air to rise bringing in colder air to replace the air that was just heated. That's why it's always a good idea to give your amplifier plenty of room above it to vent the hot air. Also, don't restrict the clearance below the amp since this would constrict the cool airflow to the heatsinks. I put my amp on the top of the pile with nothing at all above it.

I think the marketing ploy with cerametallic is that the aluminum oxide layer is tightly bound to the aluminum. Aluminum oxide is a ceramic-like material thus ceram (Aluminum oxide) metallic (aluminum).

One thing you must realize about a punched-out metal cone is that the metal thickness is the least where it is needed the most. Since the cone is stretched the most at the center as it is punched out in the press, it will be the thinnest at that point. The cone needs to be thickest at the center since that's where the most force is applied. The best cone would be thickest at the center and taper out towards the outer edge. That's probably why the cones are so fragile. I have personally seen two Klipsch copper cones that have creases around the voice coil. It looks like a little half-moon crease just around half of the cone within about one inch of the dust cap. Looks like the cone was over-driven and instead of the former ripping away, the cone itself buckled. Pretty scary stuff.

Ed

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oosting - talk about 'stretching'

When I first got my RB5's one of the woofers had what you describe fresh out of the box. It was obviously something that happened at the factory during assembly. Maybe it was someone like Ears flipping their interconnects around Smile.gif

The metal is cut/punched out and considering the thickness of the material to begin with, I find your 'stretching' explanation hard to accept. The tool probably goes through the material like butter.

When I had my RB5's I drove them to ridiculous levels and the drivers never looked like they were ready to jump out of the cabinet - which is about what would have to happen to cause a cone to buckle. As a matter of fact - I doubt it could happen at all. Imagine trying to apply your assumptions to the RSW15.

Ears - as far as the veneer goes: veneer thickness is pretty much standardized and like any piece of furniture utilizing it - if you hit it with something sharp, it will go into the MDF.

Sub $500 mass market speakers use vinyl exclusively.

------------------

deanG

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It's simple geometry. If you start out with a flat piece of metal and turn it into a cone shape, the center of the cone will be the thinnest. Did you ever work in metal shop? Did you over make a bowl out of copper (real this time) sheet? The center is stretched out the most. I would imagine that they use thicker sheet to make the sub-woofer drivers. Anyway, I'm not convinced that it is an improvement over paper cones. Seems like if it was such a great improvement, they would use aluminum cones in the pro models.

Ed

This message has been edited by oosting on 01-28-2002 at 02:32 PM

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oost, thanks for reminding me on that heat convection/clearance thing. Smile.gif just kiddin, but i did get this new BK amp that stands 7.25" in height & the bottom shelf and all others except the top have only 9". that means i only have 'bout 1 3/4" clearance for the amp. though the rack is open on all sides & the amp does protrude out the front & back of rack/shelves some.

i'd put it on the top shelf but i've run all the speaker wires under the floor without enough slack to go another 4 feet not to mention the interconnect lengths.

the amp seems to be doing fine. just a lil warm, not hot. and no clipping or bad sound.

doesn't about everyone put their amps at or near bottom

of rack? this does worry me that i'm cutting the life of the amp (does have 5 year warranty though). well, anyway a warning to always leave more slack in the cables & connects.

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My Home Systems Page

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"Looks like the cone was over-driven and instead of the former ripping away, the cone itself buckled. Pretty scary stuff."

If this hits any of my Klipsch "ceralloy" mid-bass drivers I will claim this under warranty and the dealer better replace the driver or I will do such publicity the company will not like it.

When there is a design problem the company better take care of the problem.I will blast my speakers more.Just to see if any cone loses its cone shape.They better hold for Klipsch sake.When I spend money I demand performance and durability.And I dont buy clownish lies and excuses.

I torture test the RF-5's and RF-7's with the big Krell and gig output Carver.

Lets see how robust the R series are.

Smile.gif

TheEAR(s) Now theears

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"When you call those things "mid bass drivers" I guess that makes them awesome but as what they really are woofers they pretty mediocre."

WHAT? WHAT? WHAT?

The RF-7's are mediocre in the bass! cwm27.gif

Try a real amp and you will change your mind...and fast.

The RF-7's have mediocre bass then all speakers are sub par. LOL

The RF-7's will whoop you like a rented mule and more...

TheEAR(s) Now theears

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