Speaker suggestion for 1,750 sq ft budget HT (can RBs handle it?)

[mizedog]

Hey all,

Somewhat new to the forum (lurked for a while) and would appreciate your feedback on what speakers to go with.

I'm building a budget home theater/den in my basement. I'm finishing the basement myself and am now taping/mudding the walls. I've added 1/2 Celotex sound board with perma-soft caulk on the studs under soundboard (walls and ceiling). I've used generic 1/2" drywall over the Celotex. Behind the drywall, the cement walls go about six feet up. The studs are attached only to the ceiling joists and are floating (hanging) to allow the floor to rise and fall (Colorado clay). There is 7-9 inches of insulation all around. The room is roughly 17.5L x 13.5W x 7.5H with a couple of soffets that bring the square footage to about 1,750. The demensions are pretty balanced. There are some very early reflections that I'll have to address, but they die off pretty quickly (hand-clap test). I've wired the room for 7.1 and a front projector and will have about a 80"-90" screen. Well, I did add two more front speaker wires that will power some vintage drive-in theater speaker boxes (the kind that hang on the car's window). These are for asthetics and to for use when watching old black and white movies.

Here's the equipment I've had since 2000 and may reuse:

Denon 2800 series 5.1 receiver

Two Klipsch Synergy SS-1 surrounds (5.5" speaker)

One Klipsch Synergy SC-1 center (5.5" speaker)

One Klipsch Synergy 12 powered down-fired sub (matches above speakers).

As a semi-pro musician (bass, guitar, vocals) I'd love to see huge speakers. But, this will be a 70% movies, 30% music set up, and HAS to be budget-oriented. So, I'm seriously thinking about keeping the speakers that I have for now. I know I need to get a pair of mains. The center has to be built into or sit on top of the cherry fire place (it's a fake electric that has room in the cabinet for a center speaker). I'd love to hide bookself speakers in custom cherry cabinets to the right and left of the fire place, but am afraid they'd be too small and have poor sound.

Questions:

1. Would RB-35s or RB-81s be big enough for this room (maybe matching with an RC-35 or RC-62)? Would they provide enough lows? Note: I'm attracted to the bass response of the RC-7 but since it's rear-firing, sound would suffer).

2. Should I go for RF-52s or RF-62s and give up on the RBs-in-a-cabinet idea (I have two girls; 2 year old and 4 year old that may knock towers over)? I'm also concerned about having to place towers out away from the wall which eats up floor space.

3. Can I get away with keeping the SS-1s for a while until I'm ready to upgrade to a Reference 7.1 rear set up?

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm really excited about getting this room up and running and wonder just how good it'll sound.

[Coytee]

I'm sure someone will chime in. I might ask this just to be curious.... would some used Heresy's and a sub work for you now and then later on, you can upgrade them to the larger speakers?

I'm not familar with the RF series so that's why I'm not making a comment. By the way...."welcome to the madness" and all that cool stuff!

[mizedog]

Thanks, Coytee. Interesting suggestion. I never considered (or have heard) the Heresys because of the 12" woofer (less punch?) and it's only rated down to 58hz. I had a similar set of Sansui speakers that were horrible in the low end. Of course, they were only 2-way and had lousey dome tweeters.

I noticed the Heresy is a sealed cab design. I understand that sealed cabs usually had more punch, possibly making up for any loss in punch the 12" woofer may suffer from. Also, is it true that sealed cabs have more placement flexibility (on a shelf or in a built-in with a large opening)?

I feel the Synergy down-firing sub is ok, but lacks the punch of direct radiating designs. When performing, I loved watching my bass amp (one 4x10 cab on top of one 15 powered by an Ampeg 300w tube head) physically move my pant legs when playing loudly on stage - especially when slapping on songs like Brick House. I'd love to get some of that in my HT and was thinking a tower would be the only choice besides a front-firing sub. By the way, a four string bass guitar usually gets down to about a 40hz fundimental. Would I lose that going with the Heresy III?

[Coytee]

By the way, a four string bass guitar usually gets down to about a 40hz fundimental. Would I lose that going with the Heresy III?

I don't know [], perhaps someone will chime in. I was reading your first post and kept the 1,750 number in my head and was really holding myself back to suggest you get some much larger speakers. Then I had a funny feeling & read it again.

I'm not well versed in room sizes and what number people use for them but your room isn't 1,750 square feet. It's only 236.25 square feet. It's 1,771 cubic feet.

I only clarify that in case someone reads this and sees 1,750 sq/ft in the title and doesn't catch the difference.

I don't think in terms of cubic feet for my rooms (and maybe that's a proper way to do it with HT's?? ....I don't know). Regardless, I think in terms of sq/ft and wanted to clarify that for anyone else reading this.

[]

[mizedog]

Oops, you are absolutely correct. I'm so used to talking about the square feet we're adding to the house by finishing the basement I miswrote. We're not talking area, here. We're talking volume.

Thanks for the clarification!

[Brac]

physically move my pant legs when playing loudly

This and budget don't really go together, gota open your coin purse for that. I would take Heresy over RB's any day, not sure why you are saying about a 12" having "less punch" being the largest RB is 8".

[mizedog]

Actually, reality, and impending tinnitus will keep me from going high volume. What I do appreciate, though is punch (or attack) in the mid-bass to bass regions. I love deep, rumbling bass when it's part of the soundtrack, but if it's supposed to be percussive, let it punch me in the chest. In the bass guitar world, 15" speakers used to be the hot ticket. But, once players progressed, they found that slow, wooshy 15" speakers would blur their notes together. Because of this, 10" speakers have become more the norm because they are quicker, and punchier. My big rig had both. The 15" cab gave me the rumble, the 4x10 cab was great to preserve my fast playing, or funky stuff that had punch.

So..., I was just wondering if the Heresy's 12" is quick enough to separate each bass note and move the air in a punchy fashion because my current sub is only good for the rumbling sound.

Sorry for the lack of HT-speak here. I've got the concepts, but not necessarily the terms.

[psg]

A set of Heresy set to small at 80 Hz combined with a sub might be sweet.



Another alternativeis to use the long wall for the screen and put Klipschorns in the corners. I had mine separated by 18 feet before and that's the best they every sounded: completely disappeared from the room, leaving instruments coming from various precisely located spots and the lead singer right in front.

[mizedog]

Thanks for the suggestions. As I learn more about them, I'm becoming drawn to the Heritage series speakers rather than the new stuff.

Does the Heresy's sealed design allow them to be placed closer to the back wall (like on a counter top)?

My wife and I definitely considered using the long wall for the screen. But, the room seems just a little small for it. Plus, the door would open right into the seating. Cornwalls would be nice, but overkill I'm afraid.

I wish I still had my Dad's late '60s Harmon Kardon speakers. The were about the size of La Scalas with two 12" drivers and a suspendeddome tweeter. They were walnut and weight over 100 pound each. He also had a full tube set up. If I had only known...