Gilbert Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I'd like to know what components are a definite replace. The unit is all original and clean, but I know she's got to have some ailments. I feel inclined to purchase/&/replace the scope (for a back-up if nothing else), and send her off to have the parts installed and the tuner aligned. Any help would be welcomed. The unit was reportedly aquired at an Estate Sale, and comes packed with (6)-12AX7 Buggle Boys. The Seller claims the unit plays nice, and he has a solid 100% feedback. My anticipations are high and I'm super excited. There's kinda of a funny story tabout the purchase..... As some of you guys already know, I'd been drooling for one for years, and while on vacation and wifi surfing during a sun break, I saw the system and had to do it. I think the liquor and cigars had allot to do with my testosterone level at that moment..... will have to confess this to the wife this weekend, after the wine, of course. [:$] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Thanks Mark, and will do on the APS-13. I've already got some of the nosy nib tubes, but I'll need to get a few more. I sent Dick Sequerra an email, and we'll see who he recommends for an alignment. I believe I did this sometime back, but can't for the life of me remember who it was he said to send it too. I'm dying to do a compar-o with my Modaffari'ied MR71. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Gilbert Mike Zuccaro in California is one of the gurus, the other that I know of is Terry Reimer in New Orleans. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 Zuccaro, that's the name he gave me. Thanks Jay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kudret Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Gilbert, When it comes to 10B, Richard Modafferi at Audio Classics is the man. He's not cheap though. Here is the contact information for the person I dealt with when I sent mine: Ryan W KilpatrickSales ConsultantService ManagerAudio Classics Ltd3501 Old Vestal RdVestal, NY 13850607-766-3501 ryan@audioclassics.comwww.AudioClassics.com Kudret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Why do you think you need an alignment in the first place? You should definitely bring the tuner up on a variac but once that's done, the tuner will most likely work like a charm. I'd also suggest testing the tubes as the 6JK6 will have a detrimental effect on the 10b's performance if they are weak and they also tend to be the likeliest culprit if the tuner is having problems pulling in stations. Another problem with the 10b are the opto-couplers which will dry out over the years and will eventually need to be replaced. If you anticipate holding onto the tuner for any length of time, definitely get the o/c's replaced and get a spare set of tubes - including the scope tube (although these tend to last forever if used sparingly). If the opto-couplers are working well and the tubes are strong, the 10b should work fine without an alignment and you haven't spent anymore $ than you should. If its still not working well, then send it off to one of the recommended experts. You do not want a unsure tech touching the coils on one of these puppies! Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Here's a cool link for free downloads of the 10b manuals, schematics, interviews etc. http://www.zilla.li/All_Tubes/10B_Downloads.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvan Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 You'll also need an armed guard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 " Why do you think you need an alignment in the first place?" In most interviews I had seen with Marantz he always said never to align a 10B. It was done at the factory in some sort of an oven setup and wasn't supposed to need alignment after that. The 10B I had pulled in remote stations very well and sounded great. I don't think it was ever aligned. As far as problems go I think the 10B is pretty stout. The optocouplers were the weak point and there was a guy that made aftermarket replacements for them. I had picked up a set for my 10B but never needed them. The only other problem I had with mine was a weak tube in the stereo/mono section which kept the 10B in mono till that was replaced. If you are planning on keeping it long term try and stock pile some 6JK6 tubes. They are somewhat rare and the 10B needs a bunch of them. Likewise grab a spare scope tube if you can. My old 10B... Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 Thanks guys, and will do on the back-up and spare tube parts, as well as opti-couplers and scope. And I do realize that the unit may be playing fine and not need alignment, but I'm one of those anal bastards and likes the warm-fuzzy of knowing my used +45 yr.old equipment has been looked over with loving tender care..... I will definitely lister to her as is for a few months, before sending her off..... Richard Modaffari performed his magic on both my MR71's, and no doubt, he's the man on the MR71, but I didn't think about him for the 10B simply because I had Richard Sequerra on the mind..... A Modaffari upgrade and complete tube replacement set me back around $900 as I recall, but there was a huge, HUGE, improvement in my tuners abilities to lock onto a station and hold it rock solid. On one of the Tuners I replaced all the tubes and the variac's..... I'm so excited, I've wanted a 10B for a long time, and this one should be nice. It's got the Champagne finish. Got a pair of model No.2 or maybe 5 Amps on the list next, but it's gonna be a while before I can spend the money on them. Thanks for the help guys..... Thebes, thank you for the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 FOUND THIS SEARCHING THE WEB.... SOME GOOD INFO: While the McIntosh MR67 & MR71 tuners were excellent, my heart pounded for the classic Marantz 10B from 1964. The tuner that started it all. It was the first tuner with true phase linear IF filters and a scope for tuning. The timeless styling and the aura of excellence surrounding made it the ultimate tuner to own, at least in my book... The Marantz 10B was the most expensive piece of stereo electronics ever offered to the public back in the 1960s. By way of comparison, a McIntosh MC275 was $444. A Marantz 8B was $225. Most tuners from Scott or Fisher were $200. It has been said that Marantz wanted to develop the "holy grail" among tuners, and spared no expense in doing so. It pretty much depleted the company's working capital and nearly bankrupted it! The tuner's development cost was $250,000 back in the early 1960s! The computer plots for the IF filter design was a mere $22,000! By the time the model 10B was released in 1964, Marantz had already agreed to be acquired by Superscope which was run by the brothers Tushinsky and had the exclusive rights to distribute the Sony tape recorder line in the US. Luckily Superscope made no changes to the original 10B production plans. The company continued to operate under the guidance of Saul Marantz until 1968. The model 10B uses very expensive pot core toroidal phase linear IF filters that require no alignment. Total tube complement is 21 tubes plus the CRT for the scope. It has a dual stage front end with silver plated Invar insulated 8 gang tuning cap, reportedly the most expensive part in the tuner. The MPX decoder section uses a special design that reduces phase distortion. FM stereo switching and muting action is accomplished by light dependent resistor (LDR) opto-switches. The front panel is pale gold anodized aluminum with engraved lettering. The knobs are machined out of solid aluminum. The tuning mechanism uses a high precision machined flywheel and its super smooth. Dial is a full 10 inch in length with linear spacing. The oscilloscope is a 2.5 inch miniature device that shows signal strength, modulation/deviation, multipath and the phase/separation characteristics of the audio signal. In all, this thing is the stuff that dreams are made of. I, myself, thought I'd never be able to afford it. They routinely go for $2000 and more on eBay. $3000 for a unit in mint condition with paperwork and wooden case is not unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Hi Gibert not to burst your bubble or anything like that, but I had a 10B and like I was told it needed to be pampered alot more often then I had hoped for. On the other hand I still have my Scott 310E which by comparison is as good if not better in sound, and once it was aligned and set it has stayed that way ever since. Just a thought for you to ponder. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 If you're really looking to burst bubbles, just mention that how fast radio stations are dropping their standard analogue broadcast for digital/HD. I'm quite content at the moment as there are several decent stations in my area and that number has held for as long as I've been here (no need to note that the number isn't growing) but soon enough, the cost of holding onto and maintaining analogue broadcast equipment will start becoming an issue and nobody 'round here needs to be reminded that these beautiful dinosaurs will eventually only pull in static (and maybe some cell phone conversations). I read that some folks in Japan have been able to side-step the digital onslaught by setting up their own FM broadcasts 'In-House' but I can't see the purpose...seems pretty futile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Hi Gibert not to burst your bubble or anything like that, but I had a 10B and like I was told it needed to be pampered alot more often then I had hoped for. On the other hand I still have my Scott 310E which by comparison is as good if not better in sound, and once it was aligned and set it has stayed that way ever since. Just a thought for you to ponder. Jay No, no, Jay...they probably told you that the 10b SHOULD be pampered - like a fine guitar or vintage car ; - ). I have a armful of tube tuners and have been lucky in that all were pretty much plug-'n-play. The 10b was the only tuner that I bothered ramping up on a variac. and it still has the original tubes - as do 2 of the Scotts, both Mac's and although the others have a couple of new tubes - none look as though they have been completely re-tubed. I can only surmise that either the previous owners didn't use the tuners much or more likely, tuners in general don't push tubes very hard. All the tuners I've hooked up have been able to bring in good, strong signals from the 6-8 local stations I listen to. Of the lot, the 10b sounds the best to me - good separation, great 'airiness' and a 'black' background. It sounds the least like a tuner and more of an actual source of the music - I can forget I'm listening to the radio. The Scott 350 is my 2nd favorite and does everything well, it just lacks a bit of the separation and heft the 10b lends to the music and doesn't share the same level of 'blackness' in the background. Of course, I've mentioned that I haven't replaced any tubes thus far so my observations could be skewed as a result. I've also read that if you want the strongest FM reception and best separation, solid state is the way to go... the Accuphase T-109V and Kenwood L-02T were the winners of a very extensive shootout on one site although the author doesn't compare his favorites against any tube tuners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 JBryan well I was just saying my two cents about my expirence with my 10b, don't get me wrong it was a awesome tuner when it was working properly. Problem was it didn't stay that way like the Scott's I have. Have you ever heard a Scott 310E? Much easier to maintain and sounds every bit as good as the 10b. As for SS tunes I have one a modded Sansui which drags in stations better than anything I ever come across period. The sound is not quite what a good tube tuner is, but it is plug and play and forget about it. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 JBryan well I was just saying my two cents about my expirence with my 10b, don't get me wrong it was a awesome tuner when it was working properly. Problem was it didn't stay that way like the Scott's I have. Have you ever heard a Scott 310E? Much easier to maintain and sounds every bit as good as the 10b. As for SS tunes I have one a modded Sansui which drags in stations better than anything I ever come across period. The sound is not quite what a good tube tuner is, but it is plug and play and forget about it. Jay No worries Jay - you're opinion is as good as any around here. I was just passing along that the tuners in my house aren't much trouble, no matter what the make. Never heard the 310 but I've read that it and the 4310 are the most sophisticated tuners Scott offered. I only have a LT-10 and the aforementioned 350B -both of which sound good to me (although I have to use a multiplexer with the LT-10). The only SS tuner I still have is a Marantz 150 which I'm listening to now in the 'House' system but I'll change things around soon enough and most likely put the 350B back in. I'm sure I'm biased but when I do listen to broadcast FM in the main system, I always hook up the 10b. -Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 Hey Jay, and Bryan.... No bubble bursting here guys, as I am totally aware of, or at least had been told about, the Marantz 10B's being somewhat finicky about being moved around. That won't be a problem here. And I'm going to send her off to the Man! to be compeletly gone through. I've already purchased 3 new Opto-Couplers and a NOS NIB Tungstram CRT. She'll also end up getting all nos tubes before it's over. I'm also aware about the fact that traditional FM will be going the way of the dinosaur, but you only live once and I'll surely enjoy the hell out of it until that time comes. But what I really want to do with it, is compare it against my Modaffari'ed MR71. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crooner Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Hi Gilbert! I'm the guy who wrote that little piece on the 10B a few posts back. :-) Registered on this forum a year ago, but this is my first post. Congratulations on your purchase! The Marantz 10B is the most amazing piece of vintage tube electronics I have owned. And let me tell you I've owned quite a few very expensive pieces over the years. It has been said that is capable of reproducing the sound of the original source, despite all the FM processing. And by personal experience it is completely true. With the 10B, it is the first time I've experienced true high fidelity from FM. Previously I owned a McIntosh MR67 and a MR78. They didn't come close! Here in Southern California, we still have quite a few good sounding Jazz, Classical and even some oldies and rock stations. HD self noise seems not to affect the 10B at all, which is definitely good news. I have my 10B connected to an APS-9B outdoor yagi antenna on a remote controlled rotor. The antenna is approximately 35 feet above ground. I can routinely receive stations as far away as Santa Barbara. LA stations, 120 miles away, come in as locals. The tuner has an uncanny ability to separate stations, allowing adjacent channel reception. The 10B is rock solid stable. Mine never drifts, not even when cold! The design is bulletproof and very reliable. My first 10B example was still going strong on the original optocouplers. My second, and present, unit has replacement optocouplers that I installed myself. Aside from that, it is totally original including tubes. They definitely do not need alignment unless somebody has messed with them before. I have Mike Zuccaro nearby, and I don't think I'll ever need him! Check out my YouTube video on the 10B: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jGfswQ-yMI If you have any questions on the tuner, don't hesitate to ask! crooner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Hi Gilbert, Congrats for your new tuner. Great piece. DON'T TOUCH IT!!!!!! Check out the tubes and replace the weak ones if needed. Never had any problem with mine. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Hey hey hey, thanks Crooner and it feels nice to get your first post here. And I hear you Guy, but I feel I must have an expert give this tuner his blessings and clean bill of health. She arrived yesterday, and looks gorgeous. I didn't have time to plug her in, but I did pull the heat shields to inspect each tube one-by-one, and they appear to be stock, because they're all vintage tubes. But I don't really know though, since I'm not sure what Saul or Richard originally released them with. Most all tubes are Bugle Boys (12AX7's, 12AU7's, E88C), except for the 6JK6 which are yellow print Sylvania's. All the tubes types have matching date codes and have 100% of their print. Looks so cool. There are no signs of oxidation anywhere. She looks to be quite the clean example, with only a single small nick on the face, but it's merely 1.5mm or 2mm long. Looks like someone slipped with a screwdriver when mounting it in the cabinet. You can see the nick in the photo, the rest is clean. I am pleased, so far, with this purchase. Here's a pic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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