StereoTransmittedDisease Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 You are offered a choice between one new McIntosh MC275 or a pair of NOS Valves VRD amps. The only caveat being that you may not sell them and you must use whichever you choose in your main system. Which would you choose and why? Bonus points for having heard both amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilbert Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 That's not a fight.... buy the VRD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StereoTransmittedDisease Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 That's not a fight.... buy the VRD's.Why though??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I can think of one reason. The VRDs are a tube rollers dream. You could spend an eternity buying and rolling tubes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Never heard a MC275 but I have heard the VRDs. I am pretty sure most everyone would be pretty darn happy with either one so it would come down to a personal preference and how the amp paired up with the rest of the set-up. Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 IMO josh is correct, it will come down to synergy. Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 VRD's ............ NOSvalves is a Forum member who, like others on here, makes and sells the VRD's and rebuilds for a living. He will always find time to answer your questions, give a little advice, maybe even growl at you, He's gotta' eat too ...... Besides McIntosh makes enough money, and increases coming in the near future for MAC, starting to price the little guy out of owning MAC gear ........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderbender Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Well I agree that we should support members when and as often as we can but .... it's like comparing apples and oranges. the Mc 275 is 4-KT88/6550 output SS rectified... that has the signature Mac sound (some say its "dark" ) the VRD's are linear /triode switchable run KT88's but also can run EL34, 6L6GC, 5881, 350B, KT66, KT88, 6550, KT90 and is tube rectified.... you would really have to sit down and seriously listen to both in the same system to make a choice on what you like, or at least here both on similar systems. The Mac is a Mac, they are collectable and hold or gain in value....... so for me the answer is simple....if I want a collectable I buy the Mac........ Other wise I listen to the VRD's and see if what they do is for you...on paper they win out....I have not heard them but will this weekend through the Klipcshorns I just bought....I have a feeling they will live up to they're reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 My vote would be the MC-275. Upon hearing it....everyone does a double take...a time tested design that has earned it's place in audio history. I find the musical detail of the MC-275 amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 You've spent time with the VRD's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 My money's on the VRD's. I have yet to hear a Mac amp that has impressed me, even though I haven't heard this one. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I have not been bowled over by McIntosh even though I really wanted to be (mostly the SS offerings)...on the very day I was searching at several Chicagoland dealers for a new McIntosh Tube amp (right after the MC-30 sell here on this forum) and finding every one of them didn't have the goods despite telling me over the telephone they did...a member here needed to offload some gear...of the items he needed to sell was a near mint pair of NOSValves VRDs and a JMA BlueBerry MkI...I bought them on the rep here and have regretted nothing about the purchase...enjoy and good luck. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Familiar with both, and I purchased (and love) the VRDs. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Have the VRDs, have heard the MC275s, and have a set of MC 75s duking it out with the VRDs now. If you are buying for collectible, get the Macs. If you are buying for sound, and you love the velvet Mac sound, get them. My VRDs (and the investment price associated with Mac) forced me to sell a MC240 that was collecting dust. I would buy the VRDs every time. Craig will not leave a stone unturned to keep a set of his babies in your house singing a sweet song. The VRDs provide the delicate thunder slam, Class A biased to about 12 wpc, the clean look, the ultimate in triode/ultralinear & tube rolling flexibility, and customer service from thirty years ago. I saw my first McIntosh gear thirty five years ago, and fell in love with it thirty years ago. With Craig's VRDs and Mark's JuicyMusic Blueberry, I held on to a McIntosh c20, MX110, and MC240 for a little under two years before I traded/sold all three. The Mac gear was too good to not be using, and too expensive to be sitting on a shelf as backup for the VRDs/Blueberry. Call us anytime in St. Louis, and we would be glad to arrange for a shootout for a weekend. Hear and see what we have heard on some good systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spongeworthy Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Well said Dave. Mac is great gear obviously but so are VRDs. The real difference would be in customer service. McIntosh warranties, not unlike many other high end manufacturers, are non-transferrable. On the other hand, I bought a pair of used VRDs and Craig went out of his way to help me make sure they were performing flawlessly. I had to sell them due to a financial issue a year ago but will one day own another pair one day. I am using a NOSvalves rebuilt Scott that is a decent substitute in the meantime (although really not in the same league). I did own a 240 and it was not even close, to my ears. My brother had a 275, a 225 (still has it) and now MC30's. If I were going Mac with Klipsch speakers, it would undoubtedly go 30s, 225, 275- in that order. If you want a name to impress your friends, go Mac. If your after the sound, go VRDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Dave makes lots of good comments here. From my POV - both a vintage Mac owner (MC30s) as well as VRDs - there are reasons to favor both the Mac and VRDs, depending on your emphasis. The majority of the Mac benefits lie in the name of Mac - they hold value and are recognizable nomenclature, and do possess thier own unique sonic signature that many are addicted to. But from a technical standpoint, there are MANY areas where the VRDs have it over the Macs, primarily the fact that they were built for a specific purpose - to drive Heritage Klipsch. In a push-pull design, most here opted for a variation of vintage amplifiers, especially if one wanted TUBE RECTIFICATION, which further limited choices - and introduced other compromises. Like the McIntosh MC30: A midrange like no other, and a tonality that is one-of-a-kind - yet presents other drawbacks, such as an insufficient power supply to really "let it rip" while keeping the bass tight, and a bit of that "hanging note"/single ended triode kind of quality that is very alluring in certain applications and kinds of listening, but not really "audiophile correct" when the music gets really demanding. Some of this is correctable: step up to an MC240 or 275, and the bass "looseness" gets solved, but can result in too much of a "thunky" quality - a bit heavyfooted. Some will say that the overall presentation of the vintage 240/275 is a bit "dark" for thier tastes - much of which has been corrected in the newest 275s (mkIV and V). Now we're talking tonal balance preferences and sonic "signature"......which one has to figure out for themselves to a degree, but can be somewhat directed by listening preferences and stated expectations. In the Mac world, I landed on the MC30s, because they presented strengths I was seeking.....best midrange and tube rectified, a tip of the cap towards the SET kind of thinking, yet still in the realm of push pull. The MC30s are very unique. And dare I say it - SEXAHHHHHH[] But they are by no means complete. While I would never part with them, there are things missing, that the VRDs solve in spades. The VRDs are THE CUSTOM SOLUTION for Heritage Klipsch-O-philes. Before the VRDs, the typical push-pull amplifiers were amps like Macs, Dynacos, Marantz 8B (the 8B is also a helluvanamplifer)- and all good in thier own ways, all with good iron from the heyday of tube audio. But every one has drawbacks, that the VRDs address. The VRDs possess a simple, direct circuit with minimal tubes necessary to do the job, backed by transformers that are excellent. Manual bias, best for tweaking this just exactly perfect. Tube rectified. Why tube rectified? In MY opinion (and yeah, those do differ) Heritage Klipsch benefit greatly from well designed tube rectified circuits. Not that one cannot use solid state rectifiers effectively, but the maximum benefits of tube rectification (clarity without added edge, and proper bass weight, amongst others) are realized with the VRDs, with minimal drawbacks. Bass authority (boy, do these ever grip the woofer) without the artificial "plop", tubbiness, or thunkiness present in other vintage designs, and clarity and transparency that is phenomenal in gear offered at this price. A brute and a ballerina all in one, and always at the right time. They sound a helluvalot more expensive than they are. If they were sold by a major market company, they would be - by about double. I've had my pair of VRDs here for just short of a year - and the more I listen to them, the more I am impressed with them. Usually when one gets a new "toy", the buzz of that toy subsides after having it a while. My VRD pair is the opposite - they become more "permanent" with each passing day. The VRDs are my "audiophile reference" amps here, so to speak, and for one seeking the best PERFORMANCE, the VRDs must make the Heritage owner's short list. On an audiophile level, they are the best pair of power amps that I own. And since I don't have to choose between my vintage Macs and VRDs (except for which to listen to at any one time), I won't. It's a nice problem to have[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 14, 2008 Share Posted June 14, 2008 Go VRDs or go home!...[] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StereoTransmittedDisease Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 Thanks everyone for your very helpful posts, especially Audible Nectar's incredibly informative post. I am definitely leaning towards the VRDs. I have the MC275 and it's just not doing it for me. It sounds like the VRDs will solve the problems I have with the Mac - notably very heavy handed in the bass region and a sound that's slightly veiled. Unless something changes, I'll be placing my order as soon as I can scrape up the cash. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I would jump all over these if I were you! You will not find a better deal... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StereoTransmittedDisease Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 I would jump all over these if I were you! You will not find a better deal... Mike I hope those are still available. 'Cause if they are, Ima jumpin fool!!! *please let them still be available* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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