New Camaro release

[Submarine]

In the sixties, many "muscle cars" were modified, inexpensive family cars. I had a 69 GTO 400 transformed by the PMD, I believe, from a Tempest.

Muscle cars rocked my family and neighbors driveways, and when stripped/modified, were great for NASCAR or dragstrips. They were new innovations in the 60's. Gas was cheap and mods were everywhere and fun to do.

At 3,700 plus pounds, the new muscle cars reappear as modified family vehicles. They're more exciting than most Detromobiles. I test drove a standard Corvette, Z06, Cayman S, and new "Miata" recently - all handle like true DNA trimmed sports cars. For a higher performance family car, I chose the build quality of a Lexus SC 400 hand selected from the secondary market.

At this point in Detroits history, Ford should be producing a highly reliable and affordable 500 HP Ford GT. Pontiac, a two-seater 400-500 HP GTO with a clean and daunting muscular appearance and performance. The Camaro and Firebird should have evolved over 40 plus years into worldclass cars. Design, raw materials, tooling, assembly and service is all there is to a supercar.

From personal observations in JAX, FL, the difference in customer traffic between Toyota/Honda and the Detroit dealerships is like day and night. The service departments get more Detroit vehicles than original dealerships for their routine services after warranties.

Nobody can beat America when it sets it mind to something. Old Detroit could be producing highend vehicles and supercars that exceed the best of Japans and Europeans mainstream competition. Becoming old and fat ($$$ and LBS) effects the ways that they think and everything they do.

They see me drive up in a Lexus or fully loaded 4-door Tundra for a look around their Detroit dealerhips and they know the BS game is over before I step out.

"Hello, boys."

The responses are usually the same and sound like this one, "I shouldn't be telling you this because I work here, but I wouldn't ever buy one of these. I'd stay with Toyota."

Unfortunate and true. I hope the Camaro starts really starts a new trend. "My Baby and my Camaro" - man, that was a great ad.

[Jeff Matthews]

Anyone price a fully-restored '57 Chevy Impala Convertible? I'd say they bring a few bucks. I am sure there are people who get these things because they remember them from when they were kids. Those aren't the only people, though. I was born in '68, but I own a '60 Chevrolet Bel-Air, a '56 Packard Clipper, and a '53 Buick Special. There's just something about these cars - namely, there are very few on the road. You'll get more looks and appreciation from driving one of these (in even mediocre shape) than you will driving a souped-up BMW, Toyota, Lexus, Mercedes, etc. It's all about the fun, the spectacle and the reactions!

Are they a good investment? Nope! There are some websites where you can look up original sticker prices on the old classics. You can adjust for inflation. When you do, you typically find that they have still depreciated in value (except in the cases where you spent a butt-load of $$$ and/or time restoring one to mint). But the value dedicated to restoration is not so much something that should be viewed as appreciation when you put a pencil to paper. No. They are money-losers all the way around. That will always be the case with cars, with very, very few exceptions.

[Jeff Matthews]

Speaking of Domestic vs. Foreign, there's one thing I've noticed. There really is no huge quality difference. The comment about not having the foreign cars in the shop is not correct. You are free to visit the Lexus shop across the street from my office. They are booked.... and booked solid.

What is this perception all about? I can't say for sure, except that the Japanese were the first to come on strong when it came to longer warranties. That happened, I believe, around the mid-80's. It was taken as a statement in their belief that their vehicles were built better. They weren't. It was just great marketing. They figured in the cost of an additional year or two of warranty and figured it to be worth it - especially because their cars actually cost more than Domestics. Nonetheless, the marketing worked on us.

Now, if something goes wrong in a Domestic, it feeds the "expectation" we have that we should not expect them to be as good as the Foreigns. The fact is, a person could easily go around the many dealerships and discern there really is no difference in how often these things go in the shop. We just spent $800 on a CRV issue. Why am I not surprised? Because cars break.

Another thing is that the higher price of foreign makes essentially subsidizes longer and better warranties. People are less inclined to be disappointed when their Lexus has an issue because they less often wind up pulling out their checkbooks. They paid up-front and have (happily) forgotten that they did.

Marketing is very powerful for sure. Too bad for America.

[oldbuckster]

No one builds American Muscle Cars better than Americans ............. It's not fair to compare 60's Musclecars with what is made today, the New ones just bury them. They are faster, safer, better handling, and get far better fuel mileage than cars of old, but they do cost more, what doesn't. I'll go check out the Camaro when it arrives, but reality is, I won't be buying one, it's still fun to look, and wish, and dream ................ The price of musclecars is high because of TV and shows like Barret - Jackson Auction, old rich guys, playing for the camera's, or buying for a musuem, money is no object, they just run the prices up. 1.5 million for a Hemi Cuda, 4.5 Million for a Shelby Cobra, just unbelievable ......

While we're on cars ............. After Toyota has won 14 of 23 races this year, Chevy and Ford cried Foul, so now Toyota has to cut horsepower on their engines under NASCAR's rule change, to keep racing more equal ............ NASCAR the most fixed sport in the world ........ Maybe Toyota winning so much is why attendance is down ............

[Jeff Matthews]

While we're on cars ............. After Toyota has won 14 of 23 races this year, Chevy and Ford cried Foul, so now Toyota has to cut horsepower on their engines under NASCAR's rule change, to keep racing more equal ............ NASCAR the most fixed sport in the world ........ Maybe Toyota winning so much is why attendance is down ............

... of course, you are talking about cars that no "Joes" like us can ever buy or own.

[oldbuckster]

of course, you are talking about cars that no "Joes" like us can ever buy or own.

No, I just snicker at it's only their second year in NASCAR and have 14 wins .............. Dodge was 8 years before they won 1 ........... I didn't like Toyota coming in anyway, should be American Cars ................ but NASCAR wants to go international, greedy bass-turds, so there you go, welcome Toyota !!

[SilverSport]

the younger crowd is indeed spending much on this hobby...just not on the same cars we liked...check how much SEMA has grown in the last 10 years...also evidenced by the countless "pimp my ride" type television shows out...

Bill

[oldbuckster]

The younger crowd is into TUNER CARS, you know, those low to the ground, garbage sized exhaust pipes, big wheels, and tune the motor with their laptops ............. different generation, different cars, to only thing they have in common with nostalgia guys, is SPEED and Power, they do with 4 bangers, what we did with V-8's ..................... I did the carshow thing ............... boring, sit around and tell lies about old cars, did that when I was a kid !!!!

[dgoreck]

The younger crowd is into TUNER RICE BURNERS, you know, those low to the ground, garbage sized exhaust pipes, big wheels.......

The younger crowd is into TUNER CARS, you know, those tuned suspension, proper exhausts, race wheels and tune the motor with their laptops.

............. different generation, different cars, different groups of people. The only thing the Tuner group has in common with nostalgia guys, is SPEED and Power, they do with 4 bangers, what we did with V-8's ..................... The RICE BURNERS do the carshow thing ............... boring, sit around and tell lies about old cars, did that when I was a kid !!!! The TUNER crowd is into track days and autocross.

Sorry had to correct you. Please please please do not group the two groups together.

[HarryO]

America has always had a fascination with the automobile. We've been racing them and showing them off since their introduction into our society.

I see no reason to think things will change. Technology may change but people don't.

I'm still an analog guy in a digital world. I'm not alone.

There's always a place for pure performance in ANYTHING. Klipsch Heritage compared to WalMart audio could be used as an example.

If we want it we'll find the bucks to buy it. Damn the fuel prices or any obstacle.

American muscle compared to Euro and Taiwan polymers.

I'm buying a new car. I wish I could purchase a pure American automobile but I'm pretty sure it doesn't exist. I'll bet it went the way of international trade agreements and corporate bean counters.

I lost my beloved Saab 9000CD to the flood of 2008. Loved the handling and turbo "boost" but the new Saabs are basically Saturns and I'm not impressed at all. I didn't drive the Saab much the last couple of years due to gas prices and not wanting to put a lot of miles and use on it. Great car though.

I grew up in my dad's auto body repair shop in the 60's. I saw a lot of cars. Learned a lot.

My first car I bought with my own money was a '65 GTO I bought wrecked in '67. 389 3 speed Fomoco tranny factory. Within a month it was sporting a Super T-10 rock crusher 4spd, Doug Thorley headers, Hillborn fuel injection, and 457 Zoom gears set up by Ron Tielking of Zoom fame, and a complete Crane roller valve train. Needless to say it was a kicka.. muscle car.

I THINK it's a lot like the old Heritage line. Once you've had a killer speaker not much else will do.

Put your old Heritage horns next to some Taiwan crap and you'll find a way to afford what you really want.

I like the Camaro. Nostalgia? Looks? The sexy broad laying on the hood in "Transformers"? Don't know, don't care. I like it.

To each his own. It's still the first auto in a couple of years to "give me wood".

Harry

[Tim_in_NC]

Although a very big Klipsch Fan ... I'm also a Car Lover ... Especially American Muscle Cars ...

Here's an engine bay shot of our '68 Camaro that we've been restoring for some time ... It has a 383 stroker motor with a solid roller cam, worked 220cc heads, all forged internals, a procharger D1SC supercharger @ approx. 15 lbs. of boost, an intercooler, and a meth kit, etc... It should do pretty well when all finished ...

We also own a nice low mile C5 Corvette, a '95 Z28 Camaro that we rebuilt a while back (383 stroker, etc...) and a few other rides ... Next addition will most definitely be a more economical car that I'll use for daily driving (currently use a Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited) ... thinking of a new Volkswagon Jetta TDI ... we'll see ...

[jacksonbart]

I like the Camaro. It's still the first auto in a couple of years to "give me wood".

Harry

Its called Auto Erotica, you can seek counceling, its ok.

[HarryO]

I like the Camaro. It's still the first auto in a couple of years to "give me wood".

Harry

Its called Auto Erotica, you can seek counceling, its ok.

My GF says the same thing about audio gear. "You can get professional help"

I'm an old fart. I'm rude, crude, and not socially acceptable. Not politically correct.

We used "rubbers" to keep our rifle "barrels" clean in the USMC.

Harry

[SilverSport]

...I always bought the practical cars...phooey...in my later '40s and now I am getting into some of the American (albeit newer) muscle...[]

Bill

[oldbuckster]

Sorry had to correct you. Please please please do not group the two groups together.

I see many TUNER CARS that are street driven ............... Rice Burners just look good, not as fast as Tuners .... I do know the difference...Many Tuners are Show Winners ................

[oldbuckster]

...in my later '40s and now I am getting into some of the American (albeit newer) muscle...

Bill, you driving a better, more driver friendly American Muscle car compared to the older ones, I figure you're a pretty lucky man !!!!!!

[T2K]

Marketing is very powerful for sure. Too bad for American suckers.

[oldtimer]

...I always bought the practical cars...phooey...in my later '40s and now I am getting into some of the American (albeit newer) muscle...

Bill

All my cars are practical too. They're also fun to drive. You'd be surprised at the mileage a 88 bmw 325i can get. Even better is my step fathers 328i from 1998. We ran consistently in the mid 30mpg's on the freeway last summer.

[Guest srobak]

As you should... those are fairly small engines. So long as you keep your foot out of it, it should do rather well. My old 535 would even hit upper 20's - and it was a 78.

My old man has 98 Grand Marquis that gets 29 on the highway.

[Fish]

Are they a good investment? Nope!

I'm not sure what they are(I assume any car?)But...that's a very broad and non factual statement,although I agree with most of your comment.I've been offered a 10k profit on my Cuda,and I've driven and enjoyed it the whole time,that's about the best possible investment,one you can enjoy at will.Many of these type cars also typically go up from 5 to 10% per year,with occasional leaps.

I would not buy one only as an investment,it's just icing on the cake.Many of my friends have some very nice new cars,their kids don't even know what they are,they know my Cuda.