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tigerwoodKhorns

High End Speakers do Sound High End

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So why are you guys even going to "hi fi" stores? I visit one about every 10 years when I need something I think they might have (they never do), but then I end up buying it on Ebay or Amazon.

You already know all about Klipsch speakers from here and you have some already, so why bother with higher priced (and chaper to make) direct radiators that need more watts to produce more distortion at greater cost?

Maybe you all need to visit the Monty Python Argument Clinic?

This isn't and argument...............Yes, it is!

Actually I go to hifi shops to hear gear I can't afford. Like the B&W 800D 32Hz - 28kHz 90DB@1w powered by a complete McIntosh system. They also let me listen to SACD in 7.1 surround. It was a killer system.

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By killer do you mean that they sound like they sound like a waiting room in a doctor's office?

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By killer do you mean that they sound like they sound like a waiting room in a doctor's office?



They sounded very good. Then again I would have been shocked if they hadn't. The speakers are $20K plus and the McIntosh system was top notch CDP, Music Server, preamp, and two monoblock big watt tube amps. I'm sure the McIntosh system cost more than the speakers. My favorite thing about B&W is the how the top end sounds. I'd love to hear a pair of the $50K Nautilus. They may be very expensive but at least you get functional art.

nautilsnekb.jpg

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By killer do you mean that they sound like they sound like a waiting room in a doctor's office?

They sounded very good. Then again I would have been shocked if they hadn't. The speakers are $20K plus and the McIntosh system was top notch CDP, Music Server, preamp, and two monoblock big watt tube amps. I'm sure the McIntosh system cost more than the speakers. My favorite thing about B&W is the how the top end sounds. I'd love to hear a pair of the $50K Nautilus. They may be very expensive but at least you get functional art.

You have to read the rest of the thread. Many say that they sound like a doctor's office waiting room. I don't agree, but to each his own. These are mine. The Nautilus is now somehting like $60,000, ouch!

post-10861-13819399853244_thumb.jpg

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You have to read the rest of the thread. Many say that they sound like a doctor's office waiting room. I don't agree, but to each his own. These are mine. The Nautilus is now somehting like $60,000, ouch!


I read the thread but I have terrible memory : (. Doctors waiting room did not come to mind : ). The guys at the shop really opened them up and played loud. I couldn't say they are my favorite speakers but they sound great. If I had $60K to spend on a pair of speakers I wouldn't know where to start.

What wood grain is that on your speakers??? Very nice.

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Well, then, that's 3 good reasons, right there. I would try not to do the third because of the following rule: "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

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Anyone know what this is:

A piece of John Lingenfelters Art Work .............. Mr. Corvette if you will, left us way too soon !!!!!!!!! .... AWESOME is what it is !!!!!!!

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You have to read the rest of the thread. Many say that they sound like a doctor's office waiting room. I don't agree, but to each his own. These are mine. The Nautilus is now somehting like $60,000, ouch!

This is a great example of the law of diminishing returns. Without getting too romantic about it (or aesthetic, which is the market BTW, bragging rights included). Spending $60,000 on a pair of uber refined direct radiators is part of that market appeal, as well as coming up with videos on line by the engineers to "explain" why they chose that design path. B&W has been in business for many years and continue to charm people with their products. Why else would Klipsch Group want to create the Palladium line and get a piece of that action otherwise.

The stark reality is that I can't hear much above 13Khz, so I don't care about Diamond tweeters that resonate 4 octaves above this for an extra $10,000.....talk about a waste, but it gives the owner something to talk about. Who wouldn't like to tell someone they have tweeters made out of diamond? While it is certainly a measurable thing, it's more about the 90% conversation at a show-off party that actual 10% performance difference (higher stiffness to mass ratio).

I have heard different B&W speakers over the years and one cannot say they sound like dentist office ceiling speakers, come on! They have a really great sound, are small, and look good. Plus there's a romantic appeal to people having "imported from a European country" in their home. But, they do require lotsa watts to play at a realistic levels. A hi-fi store can't make a profit on low watts unless it's a $20,000 tube monoblock or somehting like it.

In effect, at each level of the marketplace, Klipsch represents great sound at an affordable price for more people. In my case, I have an engineering background, so I can get big Controlled Directivity horns with big drivers (many of them Klipsch, design my own crossovers, and balance the whole thing in my room with a laptop and cheap tools. But, they are in a man cave, I have a terrrific wife, and big/ugly doesn't matter to me, since I'm going to hide them behind large grille gloth anyhow. If I were to get them new from Klipsch Commercial, they would cost about $20,000. The difference is, I can drive them with a $300 HT receiver and some old SS watts down low for about $600, not $50,000 worth of electronics. I have lots of time and $3,000 into the whole thing

For a $5,000 bet, I would move my all-horn setup next to anything B&W makes at any price, hide both, and play music from the best recordings. I guarantee I wouldn't lose the bet. I would simply blow that stuff rith back to England in that contest. But, in the real world, that bet will never happen, and it truly doesn't matter anyway, since it's all a personal choice. I would never try to tell other people how they should spend their money unless I was getting paid to tell them, preferably as an independent consultant, and not a store with limited product offerings.

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Because people like Robert Harley of TAS say that Khorns have "colored sound", whatever that means, and the lemmings follow the piper to the sea. I recently had the owner of a high end audio salon tell me the same thing, so I asked him if he had heard any of the newer horns to which he replied, "they sound the same". Funny, because exponentials, tractrixes, ind CD horns all sound different from each other to me.

Yes, they all have their different colorations in some form. Geddes traces to High Order Modes, or HOMs. But it's a good trade-off when it's designed for the least coloration possible.

Direct radiators have more AM and FM distortion for a given output level, and have less controlled directivity at different frequencies.

The Danley SH-50 is probably the best compromise from a design point of view, and it's on my radar screen. It's one of the few that can pass a square wave (phase coherent conical horn).

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Claude I do agree with you well mostly.. I still like to get out and hear other systems. The main thing I do like about b&w is the top end. But if I had 20k to spend I'd have jubilees. I would pay someone local to veneer them. Then I would have some jfl Seth 300b amps made. I think that would keep me happy for a while.

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Seti,

They are Signature 800's. Every so often B&W puts out a "Signature" speaker to show off their new technology. These actually are Nautilus 800's with Tiger Eye veneer, the company line was that this was the best that they could do at the time. Kind of lame but I really like them.

Claude,

Doctor's office no, but diminishing returns, definately! If you read my other posts here and elsewhere, I say that Klipsch is realy hard to beat.

The B&W's have their strengths and the Klipsch have other strengths. Who is to say which is a better strength? We do know which one costs more but that does not make it better. The hard part is that the B&W's cost a bundle and many recordings sound thin or compressed (I.e. bad recordings), just like K Horns. Great recordings sound great. I have an old pair of B&W's from the mid 1980's that sound great on most recordings, and I only have about $750 into them, they also don't require 700 wpc. They fall short of the S800's, but not by as much as you would expect.

Anyway, good post, mostly.

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Anyway, good post, mostly.

Thanks. As for the portion that is no in the "mostly" camp............. I just put the theoretical thowdown/bet in there to emphasize the "personal choice" aspect of my post, nothing more (but, mine's still the best, LOL). All the posters in this thread have sound that is part of the 99th percentile in contrast to the real world of the plastic "$499 HT in a box." It's all academic discussion anyhow right?

We all enjoy great sound here. BTW, have you signed up to B&W's free music downloads? Peter Garbriel is seeking to help produce "great sound" from obscure artists with limited funds by making his SOTA digital recording facility available as a B&W promotion (deadline Aug. 18).

I just downloaded FLAC file from Gwyneth Herbert (female vocalist with her band) for free, used a free converter to WAV, burned a CD and played it on my DVD/CD source in 2.1. It's an extremely detailed and dynamic recording (although a little dry reverb-wise). Worth a try......

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Anyway, good post, mostly.

Thanks. As for the portion that is no in the "mostly" camp............. I just put the theoretical thowdown/bet in there to emphasize the "personal choice" aspect of my post, nothing more (but, mine's still the best, LOL). All the posters in this thread have sound that is part of the 99th percentile in contrast to the real world of the plastic "$499 HT in a box." It's all academic discussion anyhow right?

We all enjoy great sound here. BTW, have you signed up to B&W's free music downloads? Peter Garbriel is seeking to help produce "great sound" from obscure artists with limited funds by making his SOTA digital recording facility available as a B&W promotion (deadline Aug. 18).

I just downloaded FLAC file from Gwyneth Herbert (female vocalist with her band) for free, used a free converter to WAV, burned a CD and played it on my DVD/CD source in 2.1. It's an extremely detailed and dynamic recording (although a little dry reverb-wise). Worth a try......


Peter Gabriel is a great producer the sound quality of his recordings is wonderful. I didn't know about the free music downloads so I am going to look for that now. THANKS!

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