Subwoofer question: Stereo subwoofer connection?

[keide]

I have an AudioSource 15" subwoofer paired with my Quintet III system. The AudioSource takes a Left and Right input into the sub. The sub has one signle woofer in it. I find this odd, aren't subs mono? So I did purchase a Y sub cable but is this necessary? Can someone help me with the explanation of how this works and what if I should use a mono or stereo cable? Thanks.

[Islander]

You only need a mono cable. With certain brands of subs, if you use a y-cable going into both inputs, you will get more volume, but that just means you'll have to turn the level control down more to match the sub's level to the main speakers.

Having said that, I do use y-cables on my bedroom subs, just to keep dust out of the connectors. I didn't know much when I bought those subs and thought it seemed sensible.

[keide]

Thanks for the reply Islander. Technically speaking it doesn't make sense to me how the one woofer could handle a stereo input anyhow. So, I will take it then it doesn't matter if I go mono to use just the R or the L and leave the other one open.

[DrWho]

The stereo inputs on a subwoofer add the left and right channels together into a single mono channel.

Also, the stereo input allows you to get bass information from both the L and R channels without shorting your preamp.

[TNRabbit]

The stereo inputs on a subwoofer add the left and right channels together into a single mono channel.

Also, the stereo input allows you to get bass information from both the L and R channels without shorting your preamp.

x2

[oldbuckster]

Bass is mono ........... non directional .......... L and Right inputs; I use the Left in for my Home Theatre ... I use the Right in to my Scott for 2 channel ... One Sub for two systems ................ I like the sound of just one input better than using a Y connector

[USNRET]

Bass is mono ........... non directional .......... L and Right inputs; I use the Left in for my Home Theatre ... I use the Right in to my Scott for 2 channel ... One Sub for two systems ................ I like the sound of just one input better than using a Y connector

So, using my SVS PB12 /Plus 2, I can connect my LFE out from the AVR to the left input of sub and the center out from my Mc C-28 pre-amp to the right input of the sub? I wasn't sure of the signal path in the sub and have used a Niles switcher to achieve this when I was in the mood to give the sub a try w/ two channel. I didn't want to back feed either with the sub signal.

[oldbuckster]

I didn't want to back feed either with the sub signal.

I only run one system at a time ............. Yamaha manual states LFE out should go to Left input, which left the Right input open ..... I found using Y connector made the Bass a little too boomy for my taste, so I figure what the hey, plugged in the Scott to the Right input, and have been using that way ever since ......... again, I only use one system at a time, hasn't caused any problems ....... 2 systems, 1 JBL sub, got the sound I want, what more can I say !!!!!!!!!!!

[USNRET]

I didn't want to back feed either with the sub signal.

I only run one system at a time ............. ....... again, I only use one system at a time, hasn't caused any problems ....... 2 systems, 1 JBL sub, got the sound I want, what more can I say !!!!!!!!!!!

Same here, one system at a time using Niles 12 volt triggers, current sensing and speaker selector configured as source switching (between Denon AVR HT and McIntosh amp to front mains) with enough delay dialed in that one system is OFF for several seconds before any switching occurs. I will try the L/R combo

[DrWho]

Bass is mono ........... non directional ..........

Bass is not mono - non-directional, sometimes...but most always localizeable.

You're more than welcome to swing by my place for a demonstration, or you can read the research put out by Bell Labs where they did the same thing...

I like the sound of just one input better than using a Y connector

Using the y-connector gives you 6dB of extra gain for bass content that is the same in both channels...if you didn't like the sound, then you should have just turned down the volume of the sub.

In your situation, you're probably fine for HT since the subwoofer preout is mono from a receiver, but from your Scott, you might notice some things are unbalanced: like stereo panned toms; or a lot of jazz recordings will put the bass off to a single side too...so you'll have more or less bass depending on which side the recording engineer panned things. If something was panned hard left and had a lot of bass content, then you wouldn't hear anything at all!

Technically, you're supposed to have the +6dB gain anyway since that's what a pair of full range loudspeakers would naturally achieve from their own acoustical summation at the listening position. That's another way of saying you have your sub cranked up 6dB too hot because you don't have both the L and R channel information...

[Islander]

Using the y-connector gives you 6dB of extra gain for bass content that is the same in both channels...if you didn't like the sound, then you should have just turned down the volume of the sub.

When I first got my Paradigm sub, I hooked it up with a y-connector, just like my bedroom subs, and I thought it was going to kick the sofa across the room! Then I looked at the owner's manual and it said that if you needed a 6dB boost, use both inputs, otherwise one is all you need. With a single input being used and the level set at around 10 o'clock on the unmarked control it sounds about right.

[oldbuckster]

With a single input being used and the level set at around 10 o'clock on the unmarked control it sounds about right.

That is a exactly what I have found and what I do. The trick to getting a Sub Woofer tuned in right is, Not Knowing Its there.

Again I tell you Bass is Mono, and non-directional ............ I have never seen a Stereo subwoofer, if there is one out there Who makes it ???

[DrWho]

Using the y-connector gives you 6dB of extra gain for bass content that is the same in both channels...if you didn't like the sound, then you should have just turned down the volume of the sub.

When I first got my Paradigm sub, I hooked it up with a y-connector, just like my bedroom subs, and I thought it was going to kick the sofa across the room! Then I looked at the owner's manual and it said that if you needed a 6dB boost, use both inputs, otherwise one is all you need. With a single input being used and the level set at around 10 o'clock on the unmarked control it sounds about right.

That only works if you have a mono source feeding the sub...for instance, an LFE output from the receiver.

When you don't have a dedicated mono subwoofer output from your preamp, then you need to hook up both the L and R inputs on the sub to the L and R preouts on your preamp in order to capture all of the bass information.

[DrWho]

Again I tell you Bass is Mono, and non-directional .....

And I tell you the Earth is flat...

I have never seen a Stereo subwoofer, if there is one out there Who makes it ???

It's called you buy two subwoofers (just like you buy two main speakers) and hook one of them to the L channel preout and the other to the R channel preout...and then set the crossovers to fill in where the mains roll off.

[oldbuckster]

It's called you buy two subwoofers (just like you buy two main speakers) and hook one of them to the L channel preout and the other to the R channel

No, thats 2 mono signals spread out, and it's non-directional ......... I'm not going to argue about it, must be your smarter that the technicians at JBL, and other Subwoofer companies, forgive me, your Earth is probably flat .............. It's just not worth the argument !!!

[Islander]

Again I tell you Bass is Mono, and non-directional .....

And I tell you the Earth is flat...

I have never seen a Stereo subwoofer, if there is one out there Who makes it ???

It's called you buy two subwoofers (just like you buy two main speakers) and hook one of them to the L channel preout and the other to the R channel preout...and then set the crossovers to fill in where the mains roll off.

OB, Doc is right. It's not like "music" is one thing and "bass" is another thing. A bass instrument, whether it be a bass guitar, a string bass or an organ, has a location in space and, depending on the recording, of course, it should be easy to hear where that instrument is located, meaning that each main speaker should have its own sub. I've never heard of any recordings that mix the low end left and right into a single mono channel.

Low bass notes below 30 or 40Hz or so (DrWho can correct me if I'm off a bit) are harder for your ears and brain to localize, but most of a sub's output is above that very low range. This became very obvious to me when I bought a single sub for the bedroom and placed it beside one of the bedside tables. It was really noticeable that the low bass was coming from way off to the side, so I bought a matching second sub within a month, and the music immediately sounded more normal and realistic. In my main system, the single sub is located between the speakers, so the single is sufficient.

I'm guessing that the reason most receivers have a Low Frequency Effects (LFE) output that combines the left and right channels into a single mono channel below the sub cut-off frequency is that it was hard enough at first to get people to buy a unit (the sub) that could be bulky and expensive and that was not felt to be required in the past. Ten or fifteen years ago, telling someone they should buy two of these subwoofer things would have been met with a lot of resistance.

As well, with a summed stereo (meaning mono) LFE output, the receiver only needs one variable sub crossover instead of two, making the receiver cheaper to build and sell. That's how it looks to me, at least.

[DrWho]

It's called you buy two subwoofers (just like you buy two main speakers) and hook one of them to the L channel preout and the other to the R channel

No, thats 2 mono signals spread out, and it's non-directional ......... I'm not going to argue about it, must be your smarter that the technicians at JBL, and other Subwoofer companies, forgive me, your Earth is probably flat .............. It's just not worth the argument !!!

Nope, I'm not smarter than the engineers at JBL, but why don't you go ask them personally about it? You are going to get the exact same answer I gave...I know because I've been there and done that already. I've also been in the professional audio industry for some years now too, but no amount of credibility changes the realities of the world.

I'll say it again, directionality and localization are two different things (thus two different words exist in our language).

With a sub in the corner, you're looking at a 90x90 dispersion (directionality). Close your eyes and spin around in your chair so you don't know which way you're facing and you'll be able to point to the subwoofer (localization). If your sub was big enough, you could have whatever coverage pattern you wanted...and ideally your bass coverage pattern would match that of your mains (so like 90x40).

And just for the record....stereo IS two seperate mono channels! If you don't want to hear it from me, then go talk to your JBL engineers and let them set you straight. You can have all the opinions you want, but it doesn't change the facts.

[DrWho]

Again I tell you Bass is Mono, and non-directional .....

And I tell you the Earth is flat...

I have never seen a Stereo subwoofer, if there is one out there Who makes it ???

It's called you buy two subwoofers (just like you buy two main speakers) and hook one of them to the L channel preout and the other to the R channel preout...and then set the crossovers to fill in where the mains roll off.

OB, Doc is right. It's not like "music" is one thing and "bass" is another thing. A bass instrument, whether it be a bass guitar, a string bass or an organ, has a location in space and, depending on the recording, of course, it should be easy to hear where that instrument is located, meaning that each main speaker should have its own sub. I've never heard of any recordings that mix the low end left and right into a single mono channel.

Low bass notes below 30 or 40Hz or so (DrWho can correct me if I'm off a bit) are harder for your ears and brain to localize, but most of a sub's output is above that very low range. This became very obvious to me when I bought a single sub for the bedroom and placed it beside one of the bedside tables. It was really noticeable that the low bass was coming from way off to the side, so I bought a matching second sub within a month, and the music immediately sounded more normal and realistic. In my main system, the single sub is located between the speakers, so the single is sufficient.

I'm guessing that the reason most receivers have a Low Frequency Effects (LFE) output that combines the left and right channels into a single mono channel below the sub cut-off frequency is that it was hard enough at first to get people to buy a unit (the sub) that could be bulky and expensive and that was not felt to be required in the past. Ten or fifteen years ago, telling someone they should buy two of these subwoofer things would have been met with a lot of resistance.

As well, with a summed stereo (meaning mono) LFE output, the receiver only needs one variable sub crossover instead of two, making the receiver cheaper to build and sell. That's how it looks to me, at least.

Just to expand a bit...

There is a compromise that must be made when choosing between stereo subwoofage or a single mono subwoofer.

For the same dollar or the same footprint or both....a stereo subwoofer system is going to have more distortion than a single mono subwoofer....so one must choose less distortion or better imaging/soundstage.

It's really the same issue of one mono main speaker versus two main speakers for stereo. For the same dollar and footprint you can get less distortion from a single speaker than you can two.

But if you're willing to spend twice as much and can handle twice the footprint, then you can have both low distortion and better imaging/soundstage.

Obviously, the marketing trend is for smaller/cheaper - so of course it makes sense to go with a single mono subwoofer. The fact that our localization abilities decrease with frequency just makes it that much easier for the audio industry to choose the mono compromise.

I have nothing wrong with people that choose a different compromise, but it becomes an issue of ego when one tries to argue a compromise is an ideal solution....especially when an ideal solution can be feasible!

[oldbuckster]

The world is flat ..................... JBL doesn't know anything, their manual is False, Bass is directional ....... Your right as always !!!!!!! Not worth arguing over, really it's not ................. nowhere does my sub woofer say, or pretends to be stereo ...........

[Braided]

What is right part number and where I can buy one? I bought a Klipsch R12S with two terminals (red and white) but my receiver (Hardon Kannon) only have mono female terminal. Please help as I'm struggling with this. Thank you so much