"Dope From Hope" on HP-1's also question about sys config

[bigrfish]

1. Who knows what is the deal with HP-1's ?

I recently found a pair and they are not ported, are fabric-covered, with a fused input, and have recessed handles in the top and other utilitaran goodies for

commercial sound reinforcement use. I took the grills off (four long machine screws) and they appear to have more-or-less normal woofers and the squawker

horn appears to be made of a synthetic non-metallic substance, and is a bit taller at the opening than the mid horn on my 1975 H's. They sound pretty good, little different than my older H's.

2. I plan to use the HP-1's for a simple sound reinforcement application, where I hopefully will be making widely audible the dulcet tones of various singer-songwriters in a house concert environment. The room is a clubhouse room, just like a living room or den but larger, with carpeted floors, some overstuffed furniture, a few sheer-draped windows, some hard-finished walls. What I need to know is for either a miked grand piano or in some cases a digital piano or sometimes an acoustic/electric guitar straight into the mixer as the instrument, and with only one vocal mic, 'cause there will only be one person performing at a given time, will these speakers be enough to do the room, or will I need to set up some kind of bi-amping deal with a subwoofer configuration. If I have to do the subwoofer set-up, is it practical to use a 300W bass instrument amplifier and a single 15" bass cabinet.

Is 200W per side adequate to do the house? I realize younger people really love bass, but I am thinking just a straight, simple two-channel rig would be adequate for this, maybe with the speakers elevated on some home speaker stands just to keep the higher-frequency sound from being absorbed by the first few people up front?? I think the croud is going to run between 50-75 folks as our audience.

Any advice and information any of you kind souls could offer would be much appreciated. Thank you, thank you, in advance...

Chuck

[colterphoto1]

That's an early H II in industrial clothing. It became the KP-201. It should be same components as a Heresy II, therefore capable of only 100 wpc, and would need to be crossed-over to a sub bin (not run full range with a sub) for best performance. Because of it's sealed cabinet, it's very smooth for PA use and I actually prefer my KP201's to the KP250's.

The 'will it cover' question relates to the size of the room, the background noise, and audience expectations.

'

[bigrfish]

Thanks for the pedigree information.They sound pretty good just sitting here hooked up in place of my older H's, so I can understand what you are saying about the closed cabinet and smoothness.

I have some experience with home audio apps, but relatively none with this sound reinforcement.

You say above, "...would need to be crossed-over to a sub bin (not run full range with a sub) for best performance".

How would I configure that?

I am guessing use an active crossover and a separate amp for the bass speaker, but beyond that am not aware of what to do to make that happen in concrete terms.

Just before I wrote this, I was looking at a Nady 3-way stereo crossover, and I am guessing it would be necessary to sum the outputs for everything but the subwoofer and run those to the main stereo house system, (the main stereo power amp and the two HP-1's), attenuate the bass going out through the main system a little bit via this crossover instrument and then run the subwoofer out to another power amp and eventually to the bass cabinet, and make such adjustments as were available on the crossover to make it all come out sounding as good as I can get it to sound?

Is that the general idea??

Thanks for your help,

Chuck

[colterphoto1]

Is this for home or pro use?

Yes an electronic crossover is generally the way to go. If you get Klipsch KP115BX 15" sub cabinets, they have passive networks internally that gives a high-pass output to feed the HP-1 or other 'speaker on a stick'.

[bigrfish]

Thanks for the information about the active crossover and its' use.

What I have for a sub is a Gallien-Krueger 15" bass guitar cabinet. I have a 300W Behringer bass guitar amplifier to drive it. It should be competent for the lower register tones. There are enough EQ options to get a reasonably flat sound and add a little bass amendment without wrecking the overall sound. I am not in the position to buy any additional gear.

I have budgeted for the crossover, and plan to use my Phase Linear 400 power amp to power the HP-1's. It is not a paying gig so I am just trying to get the best possible outcome for the least expenditure. I already have a suitable mixer for the front-end.

So, I am buying only the HP-1's and the active crossover and hoping to use the bass amp and cabinet and the power amp and mixer and mics I already have to configure a small system.

The venue is a house concert with a solo performer in a room that is much like a living room, just a little larger.

Thanks for the help,

Chuck

[colterphoto1]

Assuming you're trying to run the mains (HP's) in stereo? You'd need a crossover that allows you to do a mono sub mix. The DBX Driverack PA will do this, I'm not sure if any analog xovers will do the same. If the Behringer has two inputs that will mix you could take the LF outputs from any electronic xover and mix them in the Behringer I suppose.

[bhendrix]

I have a BBE 362SW electronic xover that I bought for the camp, but decided not to use. To many volunteer operators. We went with Klipsch passive xovers in the KP-4000 woofer cabs.

I paid $100 for the 362SW and would be happy to sell it for that if you can use it. It works great, but not with kids and volunteers.

http://www.bbesound.com/products/maxim/362sw.asp

[bigrfish]

Well, 19 days later, here's the update.

First, I bought this BBE Sonic Maximizer/Crossover from Bill Hendrix. What a great guy. I called him Sunday night while he was at the grocery store to talk about the crossover, and by 9 AM Tuesday it was sitting on my doorstep.

I realized that myu antique Phase Linear 400 amp should not be dragged about, so I started looking for a new amp. I looked far and wide, and finally found a new Crown XLS 402 at a good price, $265. shipped, 3yr warranty, no tax. Already had the HP-1's that I found locally on CL that I had auditioned. The first opportunity I had to use the rig, the artist decided he wanted to go self-contained, as his mixer includes a HD recorder that he wanted to use, so things languish. Over this past weekend I was going to stage everything. Some of these components have the wierdest connectors, speakons, banana plugs, the power amp has XLR inputs, etc. I soldered everything but the kitchen sink, at one time I was thinking.

I hooked it all up at my house to see how it would work, had all the cables made, might as well. I used one side of the the elderly Phase Linear amp to drive the subwoofer through the crossover, and the 4 Hereseys through the Crown Power amp stereo, piggybacking the older ones off the HP-1's with a banana plug (so it looks parallel?).....the old H's are 16 Ohm I think, and the newer ones are 8-Ohm. If all of that is the truth, the resistance should be about 5.33 ohms, so stereo it's in the ballpark of 400W/Ch. It definitely feels like I will need to be careful with it or incur major damage.

The rest of the story is that for a garden variety stereo it sounds pretty good. The BBE effect is tangible and does something real over and above merely boosting treble, which must be acclimated to. I like it...as in been listening to fairly good stuff for 40 years like it. With conservative use of the subwoofer and careful bass management through the 4 H's, the overall effect is very pleasant. I detest boomy bass and sound reproduction that does not sound similar to live performances, or at least is not congruent with some of the good old sessions that say Tom Dowd (a Manhattan Project physicist in his first profession, then music recording engineer then session producer) produced, or maybe think about Roberta Flack's "Quiet Fire" Album....very hi-fi with the noise floor in the basement, etc...

The stereo sounds so good, I may forget about songwriters night and just stay home and get reacquainted with recorded music again. I think what I have done here is unwittingly replicated the concept of one of these little computer sound systems that use the sub and L and R speaker configuration, 3.1, but with much larger speakers and more powerful amps....I figure about a KW in all, other peripherals are up to snuff. The Crown is not that startingly clean, but taken in the net, the overall effect is impressive. What ios lost with the Crown is gained with the phase correction of the BBE process, apparently. I have been listening to these same two speakers for 26 years and they never sounded this good.

Now I can see why some of you guys do some of the things you do with this equipment...it is addictive and empowering to be at the helm and switches of that much power and very stimulating mentally and emotionally to hear music sound like this does right in your own home. Also that danger factor...I mean bunches of adrenalin just listening to a record!!!

Thanks to Bill and the other contributors who were so encouraging and helpful with this process...will post more as more happens....

God Bless,

Chuck

[bhendrix]

Hi Chuck,

Glad to hear it's all working as you hoped!! Please include pics and keep us posted on your ministry.

Blessings,

Bill

[colterphoto1]

Nice setup Chuck.

Further tip: Check the fuses in your HP-1's. Those are standard Heresy II components and are rated about 100 watts RMS (but they'll take 200 clean peaks ok) You'll want a 2 amp fuse, no larger. Factory installed 10's or 20's for guys hanging them in churches that would put fuses at the amp end of the rig.