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Canadians!!!!

Yeah right, couldn't happen in the US. Our deranged types usually opt for assault rifles.

Sputnik,

Exactly why we in the USA need our second amendment!! Taking Canadas guns away did not stop this guy now did it????? Making guns hard to get or illegal only hurts the good citizen. You can't legally own a machine gun without a class 3 liscense, but that doesn't mean I haven't seen unregistered ones for sale, or hand gernades either if you want to chance 20 years prison time for it. The thing is that the people who go arround killing people like this don't care about a gun violation law or it's consequences. People kill people, not guns.

Roger

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No way to tell for sure, but by the time anyone could react I'll bet that the victim was either already dead or as good as dead. If the attacker isn't going after anyone else, are you going to risk getting your belly slit open to rescue a corpse?

added: As far as CCW goes, I just heard that two people on the bus were armed. It might've been just too crazy on a crowded and panicked bus to use a gun.

Sputnik,

Did you read the same article I did??? Everyone ran off the bus and the guy was still hacking away. Dead or not, an armed individual could have saved the rest of society moneys to prosecute, not to mention the guy getting away even if only for a short while. Now I will also ask you, What if it were your kid??? Dead corpse or not?? What would have happened to flight 93 with a full passenger roster of individuals such as yourself???

Roger

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The assailant taunted them with the severed head ?! It's like something straight out of a Friday the 13th movie . The children on that bus and ever other passenger will be scarred for life . He should have been put down at the scene !

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This isn't the wild west, ............................ You just can't carry guns and go around shooting people, no matter what reason ! Lot of tough talk here, wish some of you had been with us over in Viet Nam, maybe we could have won that one, or atleast saved a few more lives over there. Talk all you want, you don't know what you will do, until the MOMENT of truth comes ....................

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I think they should raise the price of bus tickets to cover having an armed guard aboard, doing daily drug/alertness tests on the drivers and putting the driver in a seperate compartment where he cannot be stabbed by a crazy felon. People comming aboard should be searched and not allowed to bring on knives, grenades and the like. They the bus riders only need to worry about drunk drivers on the road.

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This isn't the wild west, ............................ You just can't carry guns and go around shooting people, no matter what reason ! Lot of tough talk here, wish some of you had been with us over in Viet Nam, maybe we could have won that one, or atleast saved a few more lives over there. Talk all you want, you don't know what you will do, until the MOMENT of truth comes ....................

I agree with this one. Never having confronted anything remotely as bizarre and disturbing as that scene, I think I would have been shocked and paralyzed with confusion at least for a few seconds (which in that scene equals a few minutes). Some people, whether by training, other experience, or what have you, seem to have better reflexes in these crazy-a** situations. Of course, some people think they have the know-how and wind up getting themselves killed, too. How many times have you heard on the news or through the grapevine about somebody getting killed for trying to break-up a fist fight in a parking lot?

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Guest srobak

This isn't the wild west, ............................ You just can't carry guns and go around shooting people, no matter what reason !

If there is immediate threat to myself, my friends or family who are with me, or any otherwise innocent individuals in my immediate vicinity - you better damn well believe that not only *CAN* I, but I most certainly will use any and all means necessary to protect.

Talk all you want, you don't know what you will do, until the MOMENT of truth comes ....................

That moment has come on 3 occassions not in the line of duty thusfar. Once I had to display the weapon (drew it from concealed, held it pointing down alongside my leg), and the other 2 times I simply reached for it in it's concealed location. All 3 times the situation was immediately was diffused. Once was in Chicago, once in Indy, once in Bloomington IN.

Trust me when I tell you that people who legally ccw and who are propoents of personal protection have no want or desire to pull out a gun and start shooting people. But if it indeed becomes necessary (as in this case) to defend and stop a harmful act - so be it. The law-abiding folks who apply for permits and clear background checks and are issued licenses to carry are not the gun owners you need to worry about. These are the responsible ones. Try to remember that.

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Guest srobak

mdeneen > I have cites for the stats I posted as well. I will get them for you later as the material I pulled that info from is at home.

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This isn't the wild west, ............................ You just can't carry guns and go around shooting people, no matter what reason ! Lot of tough talk here, wish some of you had been with us over in Viet Nam, maybe we could have won that one, or atleast saved a few more lives over there. Talk all you want, you don't know what you will do, until the MOMENT of truth comes ....................

You can see something like this coming:

You are on a long bus ride, and its 2 am. You are strapped with your trusty .44 magnum - the most powerful handgun in the world. In the seat just ahead of you, you see a man raise up with a hunting knife in hand ready to thrust it into the man next to him. With a second to react, you draw your "44" and blow the knife wielders head off. Afterwords, when everyone has wiped the blood and brains off their faces, we discover the man you shot was simply defending himself from the other man's knife which was burried in his stomach, but which you couldn't see because it was out of your view. Now what Harry?

I see your point; but, what well-respected man would defend himself with a hunting knife? [:)]

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...................What would have happened to flight 93 with a full passenger roster of individuals such as yourself???

Roger

It's fine for you to express your opinions but that calls for an apology. You have no idea of who you're talking to.

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What would be some of the stories in the news where armed bystanders prevent a killing? I can't recall reading any. I see gunmen walk into churches, schools, McDonalds, factories, post offices and homes -- all places where citizens hang out - - and begin mowing people down.I don't read EVERY story, but I can't recall the ones where armed citizens prevent it by shooting the gunman.

I've heard a few... but such situations are diffused before they become news. And the one's I've heard or read, it was buried a lot deeper than the crazed gunman.

Crazed gunman shoots 3 in convenience mart

Local judge saves lawyer from shooting outside of courthouse.

The differences in emphasis are probably more dramatic. I'm not sure if it was a judge, might've been an off duty police officer, but I think someone saved a lawyers life near the courthouse. Had the perpetrator succeeded who's to say how many more he may have gunned down?

I'd have to agree that most people shouldn't own guns. The people that go out and buy one on the spur of a moment and get a permit to carry for protection? Not a good idea. Hopefully they've realized that when they've started the permit process - but then you could still have someone with a handgun who isn't properly trained to use it.

My neighbor tells a story of the time someone was sneaking around his house and he'd been having trouble. Called 911 and long before he expected the sherriff's deputy to arrive, found himself face to face, guns drawn on one another. (the deputy arrived much quicker than expected and very quietly). The deputy had 2 questions. 1. Was it loaded? 2. Were you ready to use it? If it was me, I'd stay in the house at least until the deputy arrives and has determined it's safe to come outside. No intention of going outside with an unloaded shotgun if I think there's someone there that shouldn't be.

True story. My wife hates guns. Wants none in the house. We leave out in the country but with close neighbors - 1/2 to 2/3 of an acre lots around the corner of the field. Some guy on a pretty warm morning a couple of weeks ago walked on / or by the sidewalk in front of our house in a hooded sweatshirt with hood up, clenching his fists as he walked by. Might've been one of our neighbors we don't know well just walking across the yard (yep, need to get to know our neighbors better). What was their first reaction? Grabbed my grandfather's shotgun. Never mind that we have no shells. I did point out to her if you've got a gun for protection you had better be ready to shoot if required. Dude disappeard and still have no idea who it was. Any gun is probably a great deterrent to someone who's not armed but might cause an armed intruder's trigger finger to twitch. I usually grab a softball bat or golf club. No good against a gun but a knife, I think my reach is longer.

Another thing to think about - should you encounter an intruder in your home and I hope you don't - I'd hope that most would just flee but if they're armed you've no protection and are now a witness - now suppose that intruder is stoned or high - I don't know about you, but I'd think in cases like this I'd want to be armed or your at their mercy or lack thereof.

I'd still agree that most people shouldn't have guns and don't need them - probably a bad idea. But most of the people that do are responsible and respect them. It's the criminals with the guns that scare me.

Back to the bus. Srobak or anyone properly trained in handling a firearm would probably give a warning before firing away or gotten into position for better assessment in case the guy attacking is really defending himself.

And yes. I still don't know what I'd do given the stabbin on the bus. I'd hope I'd try to help even unarmed as I have no need nor desire at this time to carry a concealed weapon. More people would probably help once the first person helps. That said, I may be the first out the door and into hiding. I hope I don't have to face that situation.

just my 0.02 cents

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...................What would have happened to flight 93 with a full passenger roster of individuals such as yourself???

It's fine for you to express your opinions but that calls for an apology. You have no idea of who you're talking to.

While it is is true he doesn't know who he is talking to - he is right, and it is something to seriously think about. If the folks on 93 did do what we all hear and believe they did - they are nothing short of heroes. Yes, it is a riot tactic of sorts - but a large mass of un-armed individuals can quite easily overpower a single or small group of armed ones - even ones with firearms. Same thing with the shoe-bomber a few months later.

As I mentioned before - I find it very disturbing that with 37 more people on the bus, 3 or 4 of them didn't think and react to overwhelm the guy. They quite possibly could have saved the victim's life, and prevented harm to others. Kudos to the FLight 93 people, and the ones who took down the shoe-bomber. Without more folks like that - more incidents like the bus will happen.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is.

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Guest srobak

I've heard a few... but such situations are diffused before they become news.

Yep. None of my 3 have made it to the news, nor have I been interested in making it news. I contacted the police, advised them of what happened and gave a description of the individual. Done deal.

Remember - the daily news is: death, explosion, car accident, company laying off, teaser for the entertainment section, weather, sports, entertainment.

What is the VERY last thing you hear on EVERY newscast across the country, if not the globe?

"...and now in our "Good News" segment tonight..."

Yeah.

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It may be cliche, but there's a good point to the adage, "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." This is the US. We have lots of gun-toting people out there. Moreover, we have lots of bad, evil gun-toting people out there. Now, maybe outlawing guns would tend to eliminate their abilities to procure them over time - like 3 or 4 generations. In the meantime, this generation has to go around unable to defend itself? And yes, there are frequent instances where guns have assisted greatly in justifiable self-defense. Let's not go there. If you want to argue statistics to show it's relatively small, I will just argue back that self-protection is an individual right and should not be bargained away because of some collective assertion that I am a fool to think I might one day find a gun may actually be used in self-defense to spare my life from the hands of a mugger, for example.

You can smoke pot as long as you aren't hurting anyone, but you can't own a gun as long as you're not hurting anyone? I don't get the inconsistency.

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You can smoke pot as long as you aren't hurting anyone, but you can't own a gun as long as you're not hurting anyone? I don't get the inconsistency.

Thank you Jeff for noticing that (and most likely myriad other inconsistencies). I've concluded that the reason that there is a large group of angry people out there is because deep down, they know they are living a life a inconsistency. They are trying hard to defend it, they can't, and it's just making them angry.

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More guns = more deaths.

What other country is as heavily armed on a per capita basis as the US? Afghanistan? Iraq? Israel? Well, the Israelis have a point, what with rockets flying over their borders every day and suicide bombers walking their streets, as well as being surrounded by larger countries who've sworn to wipe them off the map. Those conditions don't apply in the US, do they?

America has lots of gun factories making thousands of weapons every day. There are jobs to be protected. We'd better have a culture that values gun ownership or we'll lose money and jobs.

However, all those skilled workers could be making medical equipment or building supplies, or something else that saves or improves lives, instead of adding to the oversupply of handheld killing machines.

Jeff, try visiting another country, one where none of the people around you are carrying pistols, and see if you feel less safe.

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