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sunburnwilly
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More Guns=More Deaths??

Another uneducated statement!! The second ammendmant is to protect the citizen against an oppressive government!! I guess less guns depends on who has those guns now doesn't it?? Go ask the Sadam era "marsh arabs", and Shites, Hitler era Jews, Catholics, Gays, or countless other minorities in their own countries arround the world. Think it can't happen here?? Tell it to the Asians put in detainee camps in WWII.


So should those American citizens of Asian descent have armed themselves and used their rifles and pistol to take on the US Armed Forces in order to avoid being rounded up and put in detainee camps? Wouldn't that have been very disloyal, fighting against your own country's forces in a time of war, in effect opening up a home front? Their chances of success would have been pretty slim, too.

Those citizens of Asian descent were loyal to America and showed it by obeying the laws of the land, cruel and unnecessary as they were in that case.
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Mark, how would you define real liberty?

The same way it was defined in the Bill of Rights.

Amendment One

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment Two

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment Three

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment Four

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures , shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue
, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and
particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or
things to be seized.

Amendment Five

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment Six

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment Seven

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no
fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of
the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment Eight

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment Nine

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment Ten

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

That's a pretty good starting point for liberty. It worked until Americans had so much fear they traded it off and hid themselves under the covers.

mark,

even if no one really caught this, you have a very discerning view of whats happening, in both cali, and the us in general

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...................What would have happened to flight 93 with a full passenger roster of individuals such as yourself???

Roger

It's fine for you to express your opinions but that calls for an apology. You have no idea of who you're talking to.

sputnik,

The only thing your last statement calls for is for you to put the crack pipe down. I made a comparrison. I am not responsible if it hit a nerve for you that I could and did not know about, I therefore submit that I owe no such appologee!! If you want to educate me on what you are talking about, then fine, but don't tell me what I owe for anything that was unnintentional!!

Roger

Congratulations. You win todays Internet Tough Guy Award. Now, you can crawl back into your little bunker and finish your manifesto.

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Yeouch ... !!!

So ... SheepShanker ... errr ... Crash McSputnik ...Angel

how the hello you feelin' these days ..?

ya never called me ya kumquat ... Broken Heart

Hey Duke,

Good to see your ugly mug - . I've been easing myself back into the working class after seven months on my a**. I'm swamped at work and can only put in about six hours or so a day. I'm getting around ok. I've even been out on a few fire calls. I really gotta call you - I need some crash analysis. I've also been meaning to send you a pic of a mangled Ducati.

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"Talk all you want, you don't know what you will do, until the MOMENT of truth comes ...................."

Ain't that the truth....you never know what adrenaline will do to you....you can train all your life, and you either fight or flee....and depending on your mindframe/physical state at the time...you just don't know!!

Sometimes you just react with out any mental process.

A true hero is someone who in the midst of a full on flee reaction, where ever fiber in your being is telling to run for cover, overcomes the panicked urge to run and turns back to fight. Being conditioned to pull out a gun at he sign of danger is not the same , that is a reaction, and lots of people wind up getting killed themselves . Rushing a cockpit unarmed knowing you are going to a certain death....now thats a hero!

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I'm guessing Amy must be on vacation.

It seems Amy has been giving us a little more freedom to work things out among ourselves lately .

Just waiting to see if this can get back on track.

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"Talk all you want, you don't know what you will do, until the MOMENT of truth comes ...................."

Ain't that the truth....you never know what adrenaline will do to you....you can train all your life, and you either fight or flee....and depending on your mindframe/physical state at the time...you just don't know!!

Sometimes you just react with out any mental process.

A true hero is someone who in the midst of a full on flee reaction, where ever fiber in your being is telling to run for cover, overcomes the panicked urge to run and turns back to fight. Being conditioned to pull out a gun at he sign of danger is not the same , that is a reaction, and lots of people wind up getting killed themselves . Rushing a cockpit unarmed knowing you are going to a certain death....now thats a hero!

Beautiful.

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Guest srobak

The link may not be immediately obvious. What is the main REASON why people fight so hard for guns?

The link isn't obvious because it is imagined. The reason is to protect themselves and their families and their property from those who would inflict harm against them - be they foriegn or domestic. Be they a common street thug, or some moron who stepped off his meds. The 2nd ammendment has not been a valued nor truly valid source for the "reason" in over 20 years. However - it is the only place where precedence is in writing as one of the founding freedoms for this country, so of course it is still referred to. It is the oldest justification possible, which nothing can supercede.

The NRA is one of the most powerful lobbies in the country.

Bull. At least not in the world of gun rights and ownership. They too have lost sight and power, long time ago. If not, then they would have long ago instituted this "enormous pull" and managed to get the states and cities which still outlaw firearms yet have the highest gun crimes, violent crimes, b&e's, and murders to invoke a "Shall Issue" stance on CCW. Please note there are only 7 of these states remaining. The rest of the union do issue permits.

you all were asleep dreaming of bigger guns.

Understand this clearly - YOU do not get to decide what *I* want, need, or dream of. Got that? That is an infringment which you will never be privy to, under any circumstance. You worry about yourself, that's plenty. It is because of the whacky though that people like you CAN think for me, and decide what I am thinking, needing and wanting that the state I live in does not allow ccw, yet has one of the top 3 murder rates in the country.

I guess you have a lot of fear. I feel bad for you to live with that much fear. My fear is for the future of liberty - the liberty that founded the country. If you think that centers around owning a gun, fine.

Unfortunately - it is a dangerous world out there. People try breaking in to houses, people try robbing on the street, people try kidnapping your loved ones, people try carjacking you, etc. People who do these acts in locales with high percentages of said acts are what I fear. I fear those individuals who are trying to steal away my liberties on a base and daily level.

One of the liberties that founded this country is the right to posses firearms and defend ones liberties, and the liberties of this country. You seem to keep forgetting this. This is circular logic on your part, and is not my fault, nor my problem. I do not think that our liberties center around firearms possesion and the ability to defend oneself - but it is absolutely is one of many factors. Again - and this will be my last time stressing this to you, so read it over and over until you understand: You do not have the ability, nor the right to tell me what I think and feel. As such - do not make determinations about my thoughts - like the one I quoted in your last line above, which you are under no authority or qualification to make.

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Guest srobak

I would be concerned by the likes of Srobak & Twisted walking around with anything more than a water pistol.

Than consider yourself concerned. I have been carrying for over 15 years, and was a police officer for over 5. Haven't discacharged my weapon once as a civllian, or in the line of duty. With firearms ownership comes responsibility. Go back and read about my 3 instances where the introduction of a weapon into a very bad situation of which I was doing nothing more than walking down the street immediately defused said situation.

Or let me ask you this - have you ever had your fiance raped in front of you, with the blade to her neck while the rapist had his way with her across the hood of your car, and you were too many steps away to get to him before he sliced across her throat and then had to live with that image burned into your head for the rest of your life? No? I didn't think so. That event is the core reason I became a police officer, and it is the core reason why I believe people have the right to protect themselves, their loved ones, and those in their immediate vicinity from danger and harm. Something tells me the family of the beheaded bus passenger feels much the same way today.

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Guest srobak

Rushing a cockpit unarmed knowing you are going to a certain death....now thats a hero!

I agree. I would have been the first one in line to do the act. As I mentioned very early on - I am very bothered by the fact that out of 37 passengers on that bus, not a single one of them took it upon themselves to try to intervene. Even a small group could have easily overwhelmed this guy, and suffered only minor injuries at worst. I would have gone after him myself, and alone if necessary, and unarmed. I have done it before. No - I'm not a hero... I'm a citizen, and whenever possible, I will protect my fellow citizen from harm. This is each of your responsibilities as citizens of this country.

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Guest srobak

Just waiting to see if this can get back on track.

Amy, thank you for the lattitude. I certainly appreciate it, as do others I am sure. I hope you see or understand some of the relations in the ideas being expressed on the subject matter which in the past has not been permitted. Again - my thanks.

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