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HP-1 to KP201


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1 hour ago, M.Att said:

 

Excellent piece.  I'd considered dynamat on the horns too.    Before I dig into the enclosure I do have three questions for everyone.

 

These are the first speakers I've had with metal screwed in grills, I removed the screws and the grills stayed in place.  I don't want to mar them (they are pristine even after ~17 years!), so how do I safely remove them?

 

Question 2:  Does the autotransformer have different taps to change the attenuation?  That would be my preferred route before splicing in a couple LPads.

 

3:  Has anyone measured the effects of including ~7.5" port tubes to the output?  3A:  OK, that's really 4, measured the difference between the Crite's diaphragm and the stock ones?  (The previous owner gave me both)

 

Thanks!

if these speakers are only 17 years old , dont touch them , forget LPADS , since they will add noise  to the network , do  not mess with the crossover  , it's not your run of the mill XO 

 

-for Attenuation , the open ports  make the speaker louder while affecting the bass output ,  closing the ports  off  enhances the bass  right away  and attenuates the speaker .

- the original Klipsch Tweeter diaphragms  are most likely the Poly diaphragms (Ferrofluid ) ,

 

 

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On 4/21/2022 at 9:40 AM, Outrider 6 said:

- 2500C and the original KP-250 don’t use the same components

 

like @jjptkdsaid , the KP250-2500C share the exact same parts , it's basically the same speaker  -

 

the cabinets of the KP 250 were HQ plywood /klipsch built  ,while the subcontracted 2500C  used Strand board  with allowed to beat the competition with a less expensive line of Pro speakers .

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2 hours ago, jjptkd said:

Sometimes they get wedged into place I usually just take one of the screws and stick it into one of the metal holes in grill and use the threads as a catch to pull on the grill try multiple places along the edge and corners.

 

If you change taps (if possible on those crossovers) you'll have to change the capacitor values to correspond with the changes might be a lot simpler and cheaper to just use L-pads or else consider changing to a completely different crossover design. 

 

 

Perfect, I grabbed a pair of forceps and slowly wiggled it out. 

 

This, from another thread, is the Xover that's in them:

 

KP250 Crossover

 

 

1097345169_11-11-13Windows7KeyfromServer045.jpg.604bdd93aebaa927e92aeef8f9b83bcb.jpg

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49 minutes ago, M.Att said:

This, from another thread, is the Xover that's in them:

 

Looking over the schematics I'd guess the mid should be dialed back at least 3db from where its at now for home use, that would match a Type B crossover setting similar to Claudes Super Heresy. 

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4 hours ago, RandyH said:

if these speakers are only 17 years old , dont touch them , forget LPADS , since they will add noise  to the network , do  not mess with the crossover  , it's not your run of the mill XO 

 

-for Attenuation , the open ports  make the speaker louder while affecting the bass output ,  closing the ports  off  enhances the bass  right away  and attenuates the speaker .

- the original Klipsch Tweeter diaphragms  are most likely the Poly diaphragms (Ferrofluid ) ,

 

 

 

Hi Randy,

 

  Honestly, as compared to the rest of the signal path I don't think the LPads will add noticeable noise.  My amp is cheap, the "DAC" is my laptop, and as far as resistors are concerned a wire-wound resistor is more than adequate when it comes to potentially adding noise to the signal.  I can pick up an 8 and 16 ohm resistor and quickly fabricate a 6db LPad with some speaker wire and compare the two speakers.

 

  I though about plugging the ports to see how they affect the sound.  When I get some free time later this week I'll stuff something in them and see how it goes.

 

  The K-80s I recently performed an "oil change" on had an appreciable effect on the impedance of the drivers (measured with DATSv3).  I could pull them and check. 

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2 hours ago, jjptkd said:

 

Looking over the schematics I'd guess the mid should be dialed back at least 3db from where its at now for home use, that would match a Type B crossover setting similar to Claudes Super Heresy. 

 

Yes, I could do that, however, I have to ask, which thread has the schematics and details on it?  I've never personally done anything with a transformer.

 

Does anyone have the FRD/ZMA files for these 3 drivers?  I'd love to poke around at them.

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1 hour ago, M.Att said:

 I have to ask, which thread has the schematics and details on it?  I've never personally done anything with a transformer.

 

Good info from a thread on page 2 of this thread:

 

 

Schematic: 

 

 

kp-250schematic.jpg

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1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

 

Good info from a thread on page 2 of this thread:

Schematic: 

 

 

kp-250schematic.jpg

 

Great, I follow that, the 250/2500 is 7db hotter then the HII, and even then that's possibly above the woofer.

 

  An L-Pad is easier for a test and/or permanent solution than messing with the transformer.  In the other speakers I've built, DIY and ones of my own, I've tried to pull the upper registers down below the woofer's sensitivity in order to balance everything out and create a non-fatiguing listening experience.  Wouldn't that imply that I'd need to really consider a 10 - 13db  drop on both the tweeter and squawker?  (I realize this might be heretical 🙂 )

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

I got a chance to look at the KP2500 XO recently and the transformer does NOT have extra taps, so my only real option is a L-Pad.  Now that said, I hooked them up to my Marantz NR1200 and with the subwoofers (LFE @ 80hz) they are superb for movies, TV, and pretty darn good for music too.

 

However, they completely fail the WAF/CAF and I might be posting them on the Garage Sale area.  I'll include the 10' and 35' cables and stands too.  Harumph.

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51 minutes ago, M.Att said:

I got a chance to look at the KP2500 XO recently and the transformer does NOT have extra taps, so my only real option is a L-Pad.  Now that said, I hooked them up to my Marantz NR1200 and with the subwoofers (LFE @ 80hz) they are superb for movies, TV, and pretty darn good for music too.

 

However, they completely fail the WAF/CAF and I might be posting them on the Garage Sale area.  I'll include the 10' and 35' cables and stands too.  Harumph.

Crites sells an autoformer with 12 taps in 1db increments that will cover your Klipsch needs.

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On 6/8/2022 at 6:58 PM, Dave A said:

Crites sells an autoformer with 12 taps in 1db increments that will cover your Klipsch needs.

 

Hi Dave,

 

  Thanks, that's a neat product.  It still doesn't fix the WAF though, carpeted speakers don't go with her decor. 🙂

 

For a technical question: What would be the difference electrically between the autoformer and a LPad using non-inductive resistors?  Is that difference worth the cost difference?

 

 

Edited by M.Att
Grammar correction.
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Can't help you on WAF and your only recourse is to be tough and say you have the rest of the house and I am going to have these and weather the storm. Or sell them off and find something that keep the grumbling down.

 

  I suggested the autoformer as a possibility since you had mentioned taps I figured you wanted that solution. Recently I have had to rethink my position on variable L-Pads as they seemed to drift on me and once they found a spot they would stay at it was not the spot that sounded best. And yes .5db is clearly audible so that drift was a big problem.  I ended up using a two resistor fixed L-Pad and once the right values were found it sounds really good and does not drift and I don't have left channel right channel gain imbalance. Now the variable L-Pads are much better then nothing but they were not precise like I wanted for this set of speakers.

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On 6/10/2022 at 4:10 PM, Dave A said:

Recently I have had to rethink my position on variable L-Pads as they seemed to drift on me and once they found a spot they would stay at it was not the spot that sounded best.

 

Were the knobs moving physical positions due to woofer vibrations, or were they changing the electrical values as they warmed up from electric current?

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54 minutes ago, Khornukopia said:

 

Were the knobs moving physical positions due to woofer vibrations, or were they changing the electrical values as they warmed up from electric current?

I don't know for sure but I suspect changing electrical values as I normally don't have speakers turned up loud enough to vibrate variable L-Pads. It seemed to me that the coils and the arm that went (great techno speak I know but not going to bother to look up correct terms) to them would have a hard time staying put. Always had drift and balance from left to right was also an issue caused by drift. I could fiddle around and really get things sounding good and after starting things up the next day have to do it all over again. I am now firmly in the fixed resistor camp for L-Pads and will only used variable ones for quick down and dirty sound tests from now on. Now saying that I think at times those variable L-Pads are the way to go for easy matching of DB efficiencies as long as people understand you wont get the very best results that way. You still can get better results then not using them in that case. Those variable L-Pads would eventually settle down and remain in place and my complaint was with a really good set of speakers it was not the exact place I wanted it to be. I am still going to recommend the variables for the MAHL tweeters in cases like the Fortes because the db mismatch is fairly large. I never disliked those variables with the Fortes and this problem only reared it's ugly head when I was dealing with a speaker with much better definition then the Forte 1 and 2 which is all I have had to play with.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 6/8/2022 at 3:07 PM, M.Att said:

 I hooked them up to my Marantz NR1200 and with the subwoofers (LFE @ 80hz) they are superb for movies, TV, and pretty darn good for music too.

 I had a set years back that came with a pair of KP-480 subwoofers and with the 250's stacked on top playing in stereo I thought they sounded very good but on their own they are very midrange heavy great speakers for sure shame your wife won't let you keep them. 

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