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Klipsch vs Bose?


ckat609
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Hey guys... I recently upgraded to an LCD and a PS3 for blu ray movies and i'm about to get a new receiver and I was thinking about getting new speakers too. Here's my dilema... I want to get good audio without shelling out thousands of dollars. This would be my first time buying decent speakers so as you might imagine, I have no idea what makes a speaker a good spkear. I've been reading lots of reviews and I think I've narrowed it down to Klipsch and/or Bose. I have no idea if they're similar or anything but I've got my eye on the Quintet III SL and/or the Acoustimass 6. Any suggestions on which I should get and why?

ckat609,

Carefully read what bigdaddy posted. If sound is what is most important to you, over what your speakers may look like, he has put together a system for on the cheap, on a budget for probabl less then what you are talking about spending. I have that same philosophy in that the sound is more important then the look, I couldn't agree with him more, and I garantee his system would embarass anything Bose has to offer sound reproduction wise.

If you buy used stuff, someone else has already paid the devaluation, and you can resell it for nearly as much at any time if you don't like it after you get it, or descide to upgrade later.

Tell people where you are located and alot of guys will let you listen to their stuff to help you descide what you like and what you can afford on the used market. The truth is that there is alot of great stuff that you can afford used that was never even offered at big chain retailers because it was to high end.

Roger

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Although there is probably very little connection to the Bose speakers of today, I have been reasonably pleased with a pair of mid 80's 501 Series IV's that I grabbed at a Goodwill store for $20 about a year ago. I meant only to sell them to some some retro stereo boy for a bit of a profit because they looked brand new, although bathed in synthetic teak wallpaper. It turns out that with proper placement they sound pretty good. Their direct reflecting design has tweeters pointed off in all kinds of directions which somewhat alters what we would call imaging, but induces an interesting effect at mid volume. I just never got around to selling them, so here they sit, next to my Forte II's, in all their vinyl clad glory. I've heard worse.

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Although there is probably very little connection to the Bose speakers of today, I have been reasonably pleased with a pair of mid 80's 501 Series IV's that I grabbed at a Goodwill store for $20 about a year ago. I meant only to sell them to some some retro stereo boy for a bit of a profit because they looked brand new, although bathed in synthetic teak wallpaper. It turns out that with proper placement they sound pretty good. Their direct reflecting design has tweeters pointed off in all kinds of directions which somewhat alters what we would call imaging, but induces an interesting effect at mid volume. I just never got around to selling them, so here they sit, next to my Forte II's, in all their vinyl clad glory. I've heard worse.

kevco,

Sounds like you got an exceptional deal, I can compare some Klipsch deals if you like, but we both know that I can't readily replace mine for what I paid, nor could you find a set of speakers that cost what your Bose did new, for $20. The fact is that when they were new they were probably in a price range all that far from your Forte IIs. The real question is, if your Forte II's and your 501s were in the same condition looks wise and function wise, would you swap out your Klipsch for your Bose to listen to??? [*-)]

By the way kevco, the system that BigDaddy put together for less then the cost of new cubes or even Quintets with a sub is made up of Fortes that he bought at good prices because they weren't cosmetically perfect. If a guy can live with a chip, or a scratch or two, a Heresey or Forte home theatre is possible in this price range, and even us big speaker guys know that Forte IIs with propper amplification can have some of the cleanest Klipsch sound available, just not as loud. [;)]

Roger

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Well.. if Bose can do great marketing too, why it can become or must be treated it as its 'weakness'? If other 'great' brands can't do even average marketing then it speaks volume about their capability to 'attract' good Marketing Talent!

To an extent, I totally agree....however, keep in mind that Bose markets to a population that requires aesthetics before sound quality. Your typical crazed audiophile requires sound quality before aesthetics, or is willing to sacrifice more on the aesthetics front. To borrow a car analogy, Bose would be selling a Lincoln, but audiophiles would be more interested in something like an old muscle car or a modern Lotus....something that is way more concerned about performance first, not some image of luxury.

It's just a totally different market and audiophiles tend to cringe at the marketing claims of Bose....for me, it's like watching a teenage kid that thinks his civic is fast because he can get it to squeel the tires. Until you've driven something with real performance, it's just impossible to comprehend. I have no problem if you think your civic (or bose) makes you look and feel cool, but that's not a discussion of performance.

Cheap Material:

I've actually never heard that argument before....I think Bose does a good job of choosing the right materials for the application. Everyone in the industry feels that paper is a great material for a speaker cone. It's only when you get into some more extreme applications that paper doesn't keep up, but that doesn't mean a paper cone is inherantly bad. It's all about choosing a material that is good enough for the application. It just so happens that a small plastic container is good enough for the little Bose speakers. With their bigger speakers, they have to move towards wood and their prosound stuff is built like the rest of the prosound industry. Certain levels of performance require certain materials...

Btw, I'm not referring to the klipsch cerrametallic cones when talking about extreme applications....I'm thinking more along the lines of berrylium compression drivers and titanium subwoofer cones.

No High No Lows?

Here's a pretty popular frequency response plot for the Bose satellites:

am15freqa.jpg

Bose is pretty known for unaccentuating the 300-500Hz range in almost all their speakers (not just these ones shown). They also usually roll off the highs by around 10kHz...even on-axis. The off-axis performance is even worse. I can think of many reasons why they intentionally make their speakers this way, but none of them involve the audiophile goal of accurate reproduction of the source material. They revolve more around the notion of making both good and bad source material acceptable sounding. They do a lot of research in psychoacoustics so that they can do just enough to make things sound good...basically knowing where they can throw away sound quality (kinda like an MP3).

Over Priced?

The problem with your analogy is that GM and BMW don't offer the same level of performance. The crap sold at Wal-Mart generally doesn't have the same level of performance as Bose. However, it's not too hard to find other systems (not at Wal-Mart) that will outperform the Bose with a cheaper pricetag. Those other products probably don't carry the same image, so to an audiophile they're not willing to spend extra money on that image. To the market that cares more about image, they're willing to spend the money there....and even take the hit in performance if necessary.

On a side point....talk about a crazy old thread [:o]

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Honestly, I like Bose but don't dislike anyother brand! I have heard many Klipsch speakers over last 1 month. I liked them, but then, If I am forced to avoid Bose, then I would prefer Mirage. Klipsch, Definitive sounded very inferior in front of Mirage and Bose.

Bose bashers target this brand through following arguments:

a) Bose thrives only on Marketing
B) Bose uses cheap material (Paper) for making spearkers
c) Bose speakers doesn't give you highs and Lows
d) Its over-priced

Let's take it one by one.


a) Marketing gimmick:

Well.. if Bose can do great marketing too, why it can become or must be treated it as its 'weakness'? If other 'great' brands can't do even average marketing then it speaks volume about their capability to 'attract' good Marketing Talent!

The so called audiophiles 'hired' by competitors to throw mud at Bose seem to be the only 'talent' these companies can acquire!

Second, if a company can reach pinaccle in Brand recognitions and loyalty surveys charts only through Marketing, then General Motors would have been best brand too! :-) Please check this: http://bink.nu/Article6625.bink

B) Cheap Material:

That make me laugh even more!

Wow.. if Bose has such a tremendous design and engineering prowess to make sound paper as good as speakers with "space age" materials from other makers, then again it speaks volumes about other companies and their 'Engineers' and Products! :-)

Other 'giants' must close their shop in shame. However, I must say, there are some brands I mentioned above of which I am aware of, they are wonderful too!

c) No High No Lows?

If true, then there must NOT be any presence of highs and lows in the source sound. The sound has to be produced as such without 'tinkering' with it! That's the philosophy of good sound quality in my view. If one want and are habitual of hearing accentuated Bass, Treble etc., then I won't debate!


However there is NO proof with facts that Bose speakers don't produce range of frequencies that are produced by other. In my view, it may be othreway round.

d) Over Priced?

Possibly. I am ready to concede. However, the other "Much Greater Brands" which can produce far greater sound and quality pact are priced at a level of Ghetto speakers sold at Wal-mart then it speaks confidence level of those "Greater Brands".

Its like arguing BMW and Benz are 'overpriced' against price offered by GM! :-)

Ramsha,

You truely are completely uninformed of that wich you pretend to know.

I don't care about marketing gimic, or cheap materials, what IS important is the sound!!

Let's address letter "C") "No highs, no lows, they must be Bose" Where did this saying come from?? Well check your facts guy, because the Bose flagship speaker is the 901. If you check into it, you will find that the 901 is sold with it's own special equalizer that boosts the highs and boosts the lows, in order to try to achieve a flatter response, which it still does not accomplish well.

Let's address letter "D" Over Priced?? Your anowlogy of compairing the prices of GM to BMW and Benz would suggest that the Bose are the BMW or the Benz and that the Klipsch are the GM. EDUCATE yourself!! Klipsh didn't start marketing cheap speakers for the masses until after it was bought out by Fred Klipsch. Klipsch started producing the longest continually produced speaker system in the 1940s and still does to this day. That longevity speaks volumes. That orriginal design, the Klipschorn sell new for arround $8000 a pair, compaired to the Bose 901 flagship at what, $1,400 to $1,600 brand new. Klipsch produces more cheaply priced speakers then Bose, products in the same price range, and products considerably more expensive. Price for Price comparison the Klipsch are vastly better sounding, and hold a better resale value (kinda like Mercedes Benz) then Bose speakers do. Have you priced a used set of Bose 901s?? They practicaly give them away!

I live in Ohio, if that is in your driving range, I would beg you to bring your Bose speakers over and Come getya some of these worn out Klipsch of mine. I am sure there are others here in just about any location that would enjoy you bringing your Bose speakers over, and better yet, bring your friends as well...... Nothing like embarassing someone in front of their buddies!!

So what ya think, you up to the listening comparison?? I'm your huckleberry!!

Roger

Roger,

Bose lovers are 'ignorant'/'uninformed' is another argument basher used. I should have addressed that as well.. But... for later.

Point "C", I am not talking of "Equalizers" that are provided with 901, I am talking of 'habit' of listening to accentuated bass and treble. So, if other brand inherently accentuate these frequencies and tittilate ears of massess then I am not in that "Community". Its about choice nothing else.

Point "D" I never said that I am comparing GM to Klipsch! :-) I said other 'great' brands.

Overall the fact that these so called "audiophiles" are spending so much of energy and time to bash Bose to 'feel' vindicated that they love Other brands, indicate the capability of Bose Products. I have nothing against any of these other brands. I heard then and didn't dislike them As I said I liked Mirage far better than Klipsch, Definitive and Polk!

So the point still remains.

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Although there is probably very little connection to the Bose speakers of today, I have been reasonably pleased with a pair of mid 80's 501 Series IV's that I grabbed at a Goodwill store for $20 about a year ago. I meant only to sell them to some some retro stereo boy for a bit of a profit because they looked brand new, although bathed in synthetic teak wallpaper. It turns out that with proper placement they sound pretty good. Their direct reflecting design has tweeters pointed off in all kinds of directions which somewhat alters what we would call imaging, but induces an interesting effect at mid volume. I just never got around to selling them, so here they sit, next to my Forte II's, in all their vinyl clad glory. I've heard worse.

Depends on taste!! Nothing else!

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To an extent, I totally agree....however, keep in mind that Bose markets to a population that requires aesthetics before sound quality. Your typical crazed audiophile requires sound quality before aesthetics, or is willing to sacrifice more on the aesthetics front. To borrow a car analogy, Bose would be selling a Lincoln, but audiophiles would be more interested in something like an old muscle car or a modern Lotus....something that is way more concerned about performance first, not some image of luxury.

It's just a totally different market and audiophiles tend to cringe at the marketing claims of Bose....for me, it's like watching a teenage kid that thinks his civic is fast because he can get it to squeel the tires. Until you've driven something with real performance, it's just impossible to comprehend. I have no problem if you think your civic (or bose) makes you look and feel cool, but that's not a discussion of performance.

Cheap Material:

Assumptions -- Great aesthetics mean poor sound quality! Is that the case that these audiophile want to build? The argument doesn't take-off.. Many brands including Klipsch tried to make front runner HTIB, and bite the dust infront of even Sony, keep aside Bose. Reason? Simply its not their forte! These companies excel in making big speakers. They seriously lack Product Building intellectual Capital. It require far stronger organizational capabilities to build a product that can be ranked among top in every aspect: Aesthetics, Performance, Quality, Brand recognition .....Package all these together and you get today's Bose.

Here's a pretty popular frequency response plot for the Bose satellites:

am15freqa.jpg

Bose is pretty known for unaccentuating the 300-500Hz range in almost all their speakers (not just these ones shown). They also usually roll off the highs by around 10kHz...even on-axis. The off-axis performance is even worse. I can think of many reasons why they intentionally make their speakers this way, but none of them involve the audiophile goal of accurate reproduction of the source material. They revolve more around the notion of making both good and bad source material acceptable sounding. They do a lot of research in psychoacoustics so that they can do just enough to make things sound good...basically knowing where they can throw away sound quality (kinda like an MP3).

Borrowing a 10 year old chart from a dead site is the only 'fact' remain to prove 'frequency distortion' or 'frequency inadquacy' among audiphile. I have seen link to that site in many Bose Basher communities. The entire 'article' in that Intellectual page is build around the major categories I have listed in my first post here.

Overall, what Bose has done over few decades is that it has created a significant space for discussions for good and natural quality of sound v/s compartmenlization of sound in "Highs, Lows, Bass" etc.

The problem with your analogy is that GM and BMW don't offer the same level of performance. The crap sold at Wal-Mart generally doesn't have the same level of performance as Bose. However, it's not too hard to find other systems (not at Wal-Mart) that will outperform the Bose with a cheaper pricetag. Those other products probably don't carry the same image, so to an audiophile they're not willing to spend extra money on that image. To the market that cares more about image, they're willing to spend the money there....and even take the hit in performance if necessary

I have nver seen any positive article/post/view from any of the Audiophile about any such "outperforming" systems without naming Bose once ! All I have read is "Bose sucks.." That doesn't qualify as a "Merit" of the other systems"! Looking forward for constructive analysis of other "outperforming" systems.

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Overall the fact that these so called "audiophiles" are spending so much of energy and time to bash Bose to 'feel' vindicated that they love Other brands, indicate the capability of Bose Products.

The only time the people here spend bashing Bose is when a thread like this one is started asking questions about them. (Edit: Ramsha, on the other hand, has created an account on a Klipsch forum just to troll and boost up Bose products. Maybe we shouldn't feed the trolls).

If the fact that audiophiles find so much wrong with Bose products makes you believe that they are good, then something is amiss in your logic.

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The only time the people here spend bashing Bose is when a thread like this one is started asking questions about them. (Edit: Ramsha, on the other hand, has created an account on a Klipsch forum just to troll and boost up Bose products. Maybe we shouldn't feed the trolls).

If the fact that audiophiles find so much wrong with Bose products makes you believe that they are good, then something is amiss in your logic.

Your Edit to bash me prove the merit in my original logic! I never said that 'My love/respect for Bose is due to the fact that audiophiles trash Bose everytime rather than speaking up for their 'beloved' brands'!

Write something positive about Klipsch in comparison to Bose, man! Trashing Bose won't prove Klipsch better. With that it still remain a brand with 'inferiority complex' and try to get over it by trashing others!

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The only time the people here spend bashing Bose is when a thread like this one is started asking questions about them. (Edit: Ramsha, on the other hand, has created an account on a Klipsch forum just to troll and boost up Bose products. Maybe we shouldn't feed the trolls).

If the fact that audiophiles find so much wrong with Bose products makes you believe that they are good, then something is amiss in your logic.

Your Edit to bash me prove the merit in my original logic!

Bash you?

Bash \Bash\, n.
1. a forceful blow, especially one that does damage to its
target.

Wow, I guess I hit hard when I stated the fact that you created an account on a Klipsch forum just to troll and boost up Bose products.

I never said that 'My love/respect for Bose is due to the fact
that audiophiles trash Bose everytime rather than speaking up for their
'beloved' brands'!

That's right. You said that it indicated the capability of Bose Products.

Write something positive about Klipsch in
comparison to Bose, man! Trashing Bose won't prove Klipsch better. With
that it still remain a brand with 'inferiority complex' and try to get
over it by trashing others!

I haven't trashed Bose at all, just noted that (1) we don't spend our time discussing Bose except when someone starts a thread about them and (2) you created an account here just to troll.

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Bash you?

Bash \Bash\, n.
1. a forceful blow, especially one that does damage to its
target.

Wow, I guess I hit hard when I stated the fact that you created an account on a Klipsch forum just to troll and boost up Bose products.

:-) Dear psg,

Loosing control? Keep cool. Go back to table and write something positive about Klipsch! I will welcome that. I am not defending Bose infront of Klipsch or any other brand. I simply write my analyis of Bose Bashing... Till this thread including yours, my interpretations are holding good!

That's right. You said that it indicated the capability of Bose Products.

Capability of Bose Product is well established! No need to prove again. At the same time there are some other great products too. I have nothing against them!

The nasty tones and comments to my response prove that there is definitely a 'inferority complex' among other brands which compel them to act in this fashion. I have never seen a Bose lover bashing Klipsch or better ones like Mirage, KEF, etc. in this fashion! That's called confidence!

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Bash you?

Bash \Bash\, n.
1. a forceful blow, especially one that does damage to its
target.

Wow, I guess I hit hard when I stated the fact that you created an account on a Klipsch forum just to troll and boost up Bose products.

:-) Dear psg,

Loosing control? Keep cool. Go back to table and write something positive about Klipsch! I will welcome that. I am not defending Bose infront of Klipsch or any other brand. I simply write my analyis of Bose Bashing... Till this thread including yours, my interpretations are holding good!

Keep cool? Show me where I have lost my cool or even where I have bashed Bose.

How about you? Do you have anything to say about a Klipsch product? Then what are you doing on a Klipsch forum except trolling the virtues of Bose?

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