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Klipsch vs Bose?


ckat609

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Assumptions -- Great aesthetics mean poor sound quality!


Maybe
I should have extrapolated further....small speakers mean poor sound
quality. It is simply a matter of physics. The only assumption I'm
making is that smaller usually means better aesthetics, and that's the
market that Bose thrives in. And guess what, Bose does a great job with
their tiny speakers...I even think it represents some great engineering.


Small speakers, however, do not represent anything spectacular in the performance department.


Borrowing a 10 year old chart from a dead site is the
only 'fact' remain to prove 'frequency distortion' or 'frequency
inadquacy' among audiphile


I only posted that graph
because it's so easy to find. I have measured several Bose systems over
the years and have come to very similar conclusions everytime.


How many Bose systems have you measured?


Looking forward for constructive analysis of other "outperforming" systems.


Let's make this real practical....name a price point and any other constraints you'd like to add.



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Maybe I should have extrapolated further....small speakers mean poor sound quality. It is simply a matter of physics. The only assumption I'm making is that smaller usually means better aesthetics, and that's the market that Bose thrives in. And guess what, Bose does a great job with their tiny speakers...I even think it represents some great engineering.

Small speakers, however, do not represent anything spectacular in the performance department

Dr.,

Unfortunately the history is against you.

a) In Jurrasic Years in computing business, a big hall was needed to house 'Computer' with hundreds of Copper Tubes. Someone said "Its impossible to reduce size and increase performance"!! In 2009 - Even Palm tops are monstrously powerful in performance than those monstrously sized 'computers of Jurrasic years'!

Should I try to point out the similar history of data storing devices? Today's Zip drives v/s yesterday's so called "Hard Drives"? :-)

B) In the related field of Videography: Do you remember a cameraman need to lift tons of load on his shoulder to make videos? And again same argument was forwarded with same embarassing result. Today's Video Camera are simply hidden between palms and can produce breathtaking videos!

Same goes for Still Camera division!

c) Automobile Engines: Today's engines are smaller in size and lighter in weight compared to earlier years and obviously more powerful. The seating compartnemt have become bigger and bigger, while engine house actually has reduced in size! Hence automobiles have improved their performances on Fuel Consumption, maintanability and overall cost of owenership!

-- In all these above case the "Law of Physics" was initially thought as 'barrier'! Later Engineering and better Technology break this imaginery barrier.

I rest my case.

I have measured several Bose systems over the years and have come to very similar conclusions everytime.

How many Bose systems have you measured?

What's your unit of of measurement ? We may be talking 2 different things if I try to explain! May be same unit is not fit to test Bose and non-Bose product due to sheer difference in concept used to produce sound! Our tools must be fit to fix the problem, rather than need of conformity of the Problem to the size and shape of the Tools available!

Let's make this real practical....name a price point and any other constraints you'd like to add

Dr., I leave it to yours choice! I would be OK with your selection!

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Keep cool? Show me where I have lost my cool or even where I have bashed Bose.

How about you? Do you have anything to say about a Klipsch product? Then what are you doing on a Klipsch forum except trolling the virtues of Bose?

OK I concede! You are in control of yourself!

I had good thing to say about Klipsch too. I have still! My reason to be here was to learn more about Klipsch and comparison with Bose- real one - not the one which I am observing here - kiddos are posting pics/cartoons to hide their embarassement.

Let's keep in mind, there are definitely virtues of Bose and offcourse of Klipsch as well. What I learnt is there is only one thing separate Klipsch fan with Bose is 'brand loyalty' and not quest for better sound. And I am OK with that, not against Brand Loyalty!

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Dr.,

Unfortunately the history is against you.

a) In Jurrasic Years in computing business, a big hall was needed to house 'Computer' with hundreds of Copper Tubes. Someone said "Its impossible to reduce size and increase performance"!! In 2009 - Even Palm tops are monstrously powerful in performance than those monstrously sized 'computers of Jurrasic years'!

Should I try to point out the similar history of data storing devices? Today's Zip drives v/s yesterday's so called "Hard Drives"? :-)

You confuse physics (and in particular antenna/propogation theory) with advances in manufacturing/microtechnology. Even the miniturization brought by solid state (responsible for the computer size reduction alluded to above) did not bend the laws of physics, it mearly allowed smaller devices to produce the signals needed, there was no underlying restriction as there is in audio. You cannot bend the laws of physics, neither can the engineers at Bose.

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Honestly, I like Bose but don't dislike anyother brand! I have heard many Klipsch speakers over last 1 month. I liked them, but then, If I am forced to avoid Bose, then I would prefer Mirage. Klipsch, Definitive sounded very inferior in front of Mirage and Bose.

Bose bashers target this brand through following arguments:

a) Bose thrives only on Marketing
B) Bose uses cheap material (Paper) for making spearkers
c) Bose speakers doesn't give you highs and Lows
d) Its over-priced

Let's take it one by one.


a) Marketing gimmick:

Well.. if Bose can do great marketing too, why it can become or must be treated it as its 'weakness'? If other 'great' brands can't do even average marketing then it speaks volume about their capability to 'attract' good Marketing Talent!

The so called audiophiles 'hired' by competitors to throw mud at Bose seem to be the only 'talent' these companies can acquire!

Second, if a company can reach pinaccle in Brand recognitions and loyalty surveys charts only through Marketing, then General Motors would have been best brand too! :-) Please check this: http://bink.nu/Article6625.bink

B) Cheap Material:

That make me laugh even more!

Wow.. if Bose has such a tremendous design and engineering prowess to make sound paper as good as speakers with "space age" materials from other makers, then again it speaks volumes about other companies and their 'Engineers' and Products! :-)

Other 'giants' must close their shop in shame. However, I must say, there are some brands I mentioned above of which I am aware of, they are wonderful too!

c) No High No Lows?

If true, then there must NOT be any presence of highs and lows in the source sound. The sound has to be produced as such without 'tinkering' with it! That's the philosophy of good sound quality in my view. If one want and are habitual of hearing accentuated Bass, Treble etc., then I won't debate!


However there is NO proof with facts that Bose speakers don't produce range of frequencies that are produced by other. In my view, it may be othreway round.

d) Over Priced?

Possibly. I am ready to concede. However, the other "Much Greater Brands" which can produce far greater sound and quality pact are priced at a level of Ghetto speakers sold at Wal-mart then it speaks confidence level of those "Greater Brands".

Its like arguing BMW and Benz are 'overpriced' against price offered by GM! :-)

You know I've been reading all these posts of yours and the only conclusion I can come to is a question. That is...WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE?
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WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE?

Let's see here... let's take his name RAMSHA and reconfigure it backwards

AHSMAR

If we selectively (and quite arbitrarily) decide to omit the second and third letters, you are left with AMAR

Just saying...

[:^)]

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-- In all these above case the "Law of Physics" was initially thought as 'barrier'! Later Engineering and better Technology break this imaginery barrier.

That is an incredibly misapplied analogy and I'm not quite too sure how to address it. The laws of physics have never been broken in any of the examples you provided, nor have they been broken by Bose. Manufacturing limitations may have been overcome, but that has nothing to do with how the world works.

Bose uses generic drivers in their speakers and they behave in exactly the same way modern acoustics predicts they should behave.

What's your unit of of measurement ? We may be talking 2 different things if I try to explain! May be same unit is not fit to test Bose and non-Bose product due to sheer difference in concept used to produce sound! Our tools must be fit to fix the problem, rather than need of conformity of the Problem to the size and shape of the Tools available!

I'm using the same measuring tools that the Bose engineers are using in their own labs. What tools are you using?

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Let's see here... let's take his name RAMSHA and reconfigure it backwards

AHSMAR

If we selectively (and quite arbitrarily) decide to omit the second and third letters, you are left with AMAR

Just saying...

:-) Good juggling of alphabets! Appreciate your effort!

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That is an incredibly misapplied analogy and I'm not quite too sure how to address it. The laws of physics have never been broken in any of the examples you provided, nor have they been broken by Bose. Manufacturing limitations may have been overcome, but that has nothing to do with how the world works.

Dr.,

May be my mentioning of Analogy and leaving it there has created some confusion. I am not saying that in all those cases Law of Science - to be precise Phsyics have been bent. NO... What I have stated is that People thought that 'they have reahed Physical Limits' in improving performance and can't go further! Everytime they said it, they were proven wrong. Same is happening in 'Audio' field too.

Example: "We can't pack more Transistors in Processors! Its Physical limit" said some Research papers in Electronics field in 1970-80s! Where are we now. It was not Physics that was bent to break the barrier, but smarter thinking and Technology!

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You confuse physics (and in particular antenna/propogation theory) with advances in manufacturing/microtechnology. Even the miniturization brought by solid state (responsible for the computer size reduction alluded to above) did not bend the laws of physics, it mearly allowed smaller devices to produce the signals needed, there was no underlying restriction as there is in audio. You cannot bend the laws of physics, neither can the engineers at Bose.

I have just responded to same conclusion by Dr. Who! Please check. You would know what I meant by bringing these analogies.

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You confuse physics (and in particular antenna/propogation theory) with advances in manufacturing/microtechnology. Even the miniturization brought by solid state (responsible for the computer size reduction alluded to above) did not bend the laws of physics, it mearly allowed smaller devices to produce the signals needed, there was no underlying restriction as there is in audio. You cannot bend the laws of physics, neither can the engineers at Bose.

I have just responded to same conclusion by Dr. Who! Please check. You would know what I meant by bringing these analogies.

Your analogies are poor and lacking, as was your response. Bose like ...

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That is an incredibly misapplied analogy and I'm not quite too sure how to address it. The laws of physics have never been broken in any of the examples you provided, nor have they been broken by Bose. Manufacturing limitations may have been overcome, but that has nothing to do with how the world works.

Dr.,

May be my mentioning of Analogy and leaving it there has created some confusion. I am not saying that in all those cases Law of Science - to be precise Phsyics have been bent. NO... What I have stated is that People thought that 'they have reahed Physical Limits' in improving performance and can't go further! Everytime they said it, they were proven wrong. Same is happening in 'Audio' field too.

Example: "We can't pack more Transistors in Processors! Its Physical limit" said some Research papers in Electronics field in 1970-80s! Where are we now. It was not Physics that was bent to break the barrier, but smarter thinking and Technology!

It is no surprise that electronics can miniturize circuits. However, transfering electrical energy to air as acoustical energy is a far different thing. Are you saying that Bose have re-enginneered speakers towards a more efficient energy transfer?

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You confuse physics (and in particular antenna/propogation theory) with advances in manufacturing/microtechnology. Even the miniturization brought by solid state (responsible for the computer size reduction alluded to above) did not bend the laws of physics, it mearly allowed smaller devices to produce the signals needed, there was no underlying restriction as there is in audio. You cannot bend the laws of physics, neither can the engineers at Bose.

I have just responded to same conclusion by Dr. Who! Please check. You would know what I meant by bringing these analogies.

Ramsha,

I have asked twice and you have ignored the question both times. Let your buddies ears be the judge! You are in my time zone. Bring your buddies, bring your speakers, and bring your butt. Time for you to prove to me and your friends that you are not 100% full of fecal matter! Put up or shut-up?? I challenge your speakers, come get ya some!!

Roger

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