Help,I May Need A New Crossover and Cabinet Reglue For A Heresy II, 1986

[nola]

I bought a pair of used Heresy IIs. Both cabinets are damaged and I think the midrange leads, beyond the crossover, are dead in 1 cabinet.

1. --Cabinet issues--

I think the back panel needs a "reglue", as it is very loose. Any suggestions: which product and how exatly to do it?

On my Heresy Is there was a definite bottom with little metal knobs attached. On these, all sides and top/bottom are equally finished with no sign of knobs/raised bottoms. Does this mean I need to find risers, etc? I can add pics if needed.

I also need to completely refinish these due to marring, deep scratches, etc. Any suggestions?

2. More major problem: The seller of the speakers said 1 midrange was out. Also looks like the woofer was replaced (black cone material vs original ?greyish color, sounds fine). He thought the midrange needed a new diaphragm. I pulled the midranges out of both cabs and drove them via the cab that worked ok (the bad cab ran the woofer and tweeter just fine). Turns out, both midranges sound ok (mind you the black wires were attached to different "ends" of the mids in each cab, but regardless of which way the test wires were run from the good cab, the sound ws fine from both mids.) The crossover itself looks physically intact. I have a multimeter, but do not know what setting to use to test live speaker wires, in order to confirm that the mid leads are dead from 1 cab (all volt readings were zero so far, maybe I messed up though). Do I need a whole new Xover or just new capacitors?

I cannot figure out how to remove the speaker post / crossover plastic piece. I unscrewed it, but still tightly held in place. I do not want to break it. Is it glued on tight and can it be safely wedged out?

I will also email Bob Crites and post this as a WTB Xover in the Garage forum.

Thanx for your advice - and I have lots of Mardi Gras beads to say thanx for good advice......

--Brian-- "NOLA"

[jtnfoley]

I thought Mardi Gras beads must be earned? [6]

A voltmeter proably won't be able to read audio voltages, as they change too fast and voltmeters are VERY slow. An oscilloscope would be fast enough.

Regarding the X-overs... I have a set that were removed by an upgrader. They are indeed on the back of the terminal cup, have six screws, and will have thin sealing foam (which have apparently adhered your terminal cups to the carcass.) Pry beneath them gently and they should pop. Note that the x-over is on a circuit board which extends beyond the edge of the terminal cup, tho, soonce it's free you will have to tilt out the bottom of the terminal cup and "rotate" the cup out of the hole.

[nola]

Your description sounds different from what I can see. Here are some pix of the cabinet bottom / side / front, and crossover /speaker post area.

[fenderbender]

never mind my post I see you just posted a pic...

[nola]

2nd pic

[nola]

3rd pic

again, what I see sounds different from your descriptions.

Pls feel free to email me any part cost info too.

Thanx

[Marvel]

Those are some of the first Heresey IIs made, and (obviously) have a round terminal cup on them. Mine have a square terminal cup.

I believe they still have the seal that can be hard to get loose.

Bruce

[nola]

From the tag inside the cabinet, they were made / finished / signed off between 5/21/86-5/28/86.

[Marvel]

mind you the black wires were attached to different "ends" of the mids in each cab, but regardless of which way the test wires were run from the good cab, the sound ws fine from both mids.

Brian,

I don't quite understnd what you are saying here. There would be three pairs coming off each crossover, each pair going to a different driver. What is different about the cab where the mid doesn't work?

[nola]

The bad cabinet: woofer and tweeter work fine. Neither midrange (I tested both mids-having removed them) works at all off the midrange leads coming from the crossover. That is why I think the x over is bad.

Good cabinet: woofer, tweeter and midrange work fine. With mid removed from cabinet and using "testing wires" to each mid (both mids having been removed from their respective cabs), both mids, tested separately and together with addl jumper wires work fine.

Each cab has a black stripe wire and a non black stripe wire running to the mids. In 1 cab, the black wire went to the yellow dotted terminal on the K 53 driver, in the other, it went to the other side. Because the bad cab had a replaced woofer, I figured maybe some pulled the mid leads out and reversed them by accident before closing up the cabinet. The wires were very tighly placed onto the mid driver in the good cab-I needed a plier to remove each one. However, in the repaired and bad cab, they came off easily.When testing each mid separately, there was no appreciable difeerence in sound regardless of which terminal the black stripe wire was attached to. As each K53 has a small yellow dot painted by the terminal on 1 side only, does it matter if that side is connected to the black stripe wire or not?

[Guest " "]

I knew you had the cup types...I posted agreement to send to bob...but I guess my post vanished.

In my previous post..I indicated that a multi meter would not be useful in check the side of the circut with in-caps. won't be usefly for checking inductors unless you know what the dcr is supposed to be and your meter can read in thousanths of an ohm. the meter will only be useful check the ground side of the xover and indicating if your inductors are not open.....won't help to tell if they are shorted since they normally have low dcr's to start with.

my bet is that the autoformers are shot. I have seem blown autoformers in Heresy's. Never seen blown autoformers in LaScala's, Khorns, Belle's or Cornwalls. I have a few Hersey boards with bad autoformers.

[jtnfoley]

I THOUGHT I had read posts about round-cup HIIs... I did not want to post poor-memory-speculation and confuse matters.

My HII parts are square.

Definately give them a little prying force... you should be able to break them loose without doing any damage.

[Groomlakearea51]

POSSIBLE SUGGESTIONS IN CAPS (EASIER TO READ...)[]

I think the back panel needs a "reglue", as it is very loose. Any suggestions: which product and how exatly to do it? THE REAR PANEL CAN BE REGLUED BY APPLYING WOODWORKERS GLUE INSIDE ALONG THE SEAMS AND THEN CLAMPING FROM THE FRONT TO THE BACK. IT MAY NOT WORK WELL THOUGH. OFTEN AS NOT WITH H-II CABINETS WITH SEPARATION AND LOOSE PANELS THEY ARE NOT ECONOMICALLY REPAIRABLE. IT'S WORTH A TRY THOUGH.

On my Heresy Is there was a definite bottom with little metal knobs attached. On these, all sides and top/bottom are equally finished with no sign of knobs/raised bottoms. Does this mean I need to find risers, etc? I can add pics if needed. IT APPEARS THAT YOURS CAME WITH NO "RISERS". THE RISER IS EITHER A 1" OR 2 INCH, THE SAME EXTERNAL DIMENSIONS AS YOUR H-I'S. EASY TO DO WITH SOME BIRCH PLYWOOD.

I also need to completely refinish these due to marring, deep scratches, etc. Any suggestions? FIRST SEE IF THE REAR PANEL WILL HOLD UP WITH A RE-GLUE. IF SO AND YOU WANT TO REFINISH, AND GIVEN YOUR DESCRIPTION AND THE PHOTOS, YOU WILL PROBABLY NEED TO RE-VENEER THEM. NOT THAT BAD A SCENARIO THOUGH. START BY SANDING UNTIL FINISH IS "FLAT", REGARDLESS OF SCRATCHES, ETC. THEN FIND ALL THE SCRATCHES & GOUGES, ETC. AND FILL THEM WITH EITHER A GOOD WOOD PUTTY, OR BONDO (YES BONDO IS VERY GOOD FOR THAT). THEN SAND AGAIN UNTIL THE CABINET IS FLAT, SQUARE & EVEN. APPLY A COAT OF SANDING SEALER, AND THEN APLY VENEER. WITHOUT GOING INTO THE GORY DETAILS, IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE THAT BEFORE, GO TO www.joewoodworker.com AND READ EVERYTHING HE HAS IN HIS LIBRARY ABOUT VENEERNG. MY SUGGESTION TO A BEGINNER IS EITHER PSA BACKED (PRESSURE SENSITIVE ADHESIVE) OR "HEATLOCK GLUE". A PAIR OF HERESY'S REQUIRES A MINIMUM OF A HALF SHEET (2' X 8'), AND I RECOMMEND A FULL SHEET. PRICES RANGE FROM $75 TO $100 FOR GENERAL WOOD VENEERS FROM MR. JOE.

Hope that helps a bit.

[nola]

Re: the autotransformer, would this explain why only the midrange leads are dead? Could it be a dead capacitor?

I did email Bob Crites and sent some pix. He has already replied once.
I might need to call him on Monday. I am hoping for a low cost repair.

Will most any HII or even HI parts / X over work, or do I specifically need round cup, early HII?



Re: cabinet repair. I do not have clamps, but Lowe's, Home Depot and Harbor Freight are not far. Also have lots of heavy books. Only the back panels appear to be loose. Other woodwork seems solid. The glue or silicone / sealant that I can see from inside the cab (with mids removed) looks continuous, kind of like bathroom tub sealer.
Would glue and nails / screws work ok? I repaired a commercial sub with lots of screws in January - worked out great.



The exterior repair / clean up might have to wait. If used as surrounds
in the bedroom, due to space probs, they would be very high, likely put
on their sides, and tilted down, so I am not sure that all the work
needed would be worth my time now.



My thought about these HIIs was to use them as surround / rear spkrs in
the bedroom with my trusty and great looking HIs, walnut, as the front
spkrs. Uncertain about center so far. I did buy an Academy, but may put
centers above and below my 60" main room TV-to even out the sound-it
projects too low for me now. These HIIs could also end up part of a 7.1 system, if I ever do that.

In the bedroom I have the new icons-and they are nice, but I just do
not like the Icon 34s compared to HIs. I have a better sub on the way, maybe that will help the bass-shy 34s. (But I still don't know if I
have room for both big screen TV and HIs on the bedroom.) The icons may
end up as centers on the their sides, unless I find another cheap
Academy or single Heresy.



BTW: you guys are great )

[Guest " "]

" the autotransformer, would this explain why only the midrange leads are dead?"

...the bandpass filter for the mid driver consist of a filter (capacitor ) and the autoformer in series (sortof).

you can check for signal using a mid driver in between the capacitor and the autoformer and if you get signal there, but not on any of the autoformer taps, you have a bad autoformer....it would have an open in it....however...if the autoformer is shorted...you would not get a signal since the short has a lower resistance than the mid driver.

[Marvel]

Read the thread on the $500 Khorn saga,

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/109618.aspx

and see what Marshall did with his rebuild. You can use epoxy to get the back reglued, but not the thick stuff you get at HD or Lowes. You need the thin stuff used for strip building boats and such. It is thin and will penetrate the wood better. Marshall used this:

http://www.rotdoctor.com/

Bruce

[Groomlakearea51]

The trick to get the backs tight again, without using screws, etc, is probably going to be either a thick bead of woodworkers glue, or some two part epoxy as Bruce recommended. I just so happen to be redoing a pair of early "round cup" H-II's for another Forum member and am headed to the workshop later this morning to proceed. I will take pictures of the process from start to finish, and post those pictures for you on this thread. Hopefully that will help you out.

[Groomlakearea51]

NOLA: quick question, are the backs falling "out" or just loose.... You can also PM or email me on questions on the photographs that I will post on the Forum.

[Groomlakearea51]

Here's what the braces are supposed to look like. Note that in some of the early round cup H-II's, the braces consisted only of the braces from front to rear. In addition, I have run across several H-II's in which the bracing was NOT stapled, only glued.

[Groomlakearea51]

Another view. If your braces are not stapled, it's very difficult (almost impossible...) to get a stapler in that cabinet. Best thing is to glue them best you can.