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Crossover settings and LFE advice


CoronaMD

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So I read somewhere that if you have large speakers in the front, the "rule" is to leave the setting at small on your reciever. Is this true? Why? Where can I read up on this? As for LFE, is the the lower the hz setting the lower or boomie the bass and the higher the more punch or thud? Provided that the audio being sent is one or the other. Once I know how that works I can try to get the perfect settings. LFE in off mode, thoughts?

M

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Very few speakers will output bass at levels and frequencies that a subwoofer can reproduce. By setting the speaker to small it allows the subwoofer to take care of the bass and will allow the receiver to amplify signals that are easier to amplify and require less power from it.

80Hz is usually the recommended subwoofer setting, although slightly lower or higher than that might work better depending on your room, your other speakers, etc.

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The only rule in audio is.... "how it sounds to you" you will hear and see this any where and everywhere you read when it comes to audio. As was stated earlier THX standard is to crossover at 80 Hz this takes a load of the reciever and allows it to feed a more steady output to your mains and others speakers. The lower the Hz the lower the sound, the higher the HZ the higher the frequency is. In my experience and depending on the sub you have anything about 100HZ tends to be too much for your sub to handle, this is preference and size of the sub.

I have a smaller sub (10 in sunfire) connected to my speaker line level to handle everything from 70 Hz -120Hz in connection with my mains and a much larger SVS Pb 13 Ultra connected to LFE to Handle 80Hz - 10Hz.

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Why HardOn? With rf-5's why would you need a sub to take on 70 to 120hz? I'm sure I'm missing something here, but it's late, so fill me in?

It looks like he has 2 subs. The smaller one to play 70 to 120 in addition to his mains covering the same frequency. The larger sub takes care of the real low stuff if I'm reading it correctly.

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Oldtimer, CECAA is correct. I have 2 subs handling different frequencies, 1 sub for LFE and the sunfire HRS 10 in addition to my mains. I get poor bass response out of my room at low levels so it's almost as if the RF 5s don't give out any bass at all. So I use the HRS to help attenuate the higher bass frequencies to help balance the room out.

I'm in the process of treating the room just trying to keep up the WAF and not going over board as we will be moving soon.

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  • 1 year later...

I can't find a small speaker setting on my receicer. How should I set the cross over for each speaker? They are all set

Mistermoravec,

Your Onkyo will probably look similar to this:

Speaker Conf

Subwoofer Yes

Front ??HZ

Center ??Hz

Surround ??Hz

Surr Back None

LPF of LFE ??HZ

If you set your fronts below 40HZ it will automatically set the fronts to Full Band(large).

I set my speakers to small(full band) and each crossover is set 5hz to 20hz over the lowest frequency response of that speaker. For example my RF-63's lowest FS is 30Hz so I set them to 50Hz, RC-64 goes down to 62hz so I set it to 70hz. I set my LFE(.1) channel to 80hz. This is the settings that I have decided sounds best to me. Room acoustics, amplification and other factors will play into determining your own settings.

Bill

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Just wanted to point out-

LFE- the dedicated subwoofer channel on your receiver is usually frequencies below 120 hertz (according to dolby and DTS) So you should not be setting your LFE for anything lower than 120 hertz or you are actually cutting out LFE information! [:o] LFE information is NOT reproduced by having your mains covering things down to 80 hertz, since in any format that has a .1 (dedicated LFE signal) there is no option to send any LFE information to the mains, only the option to send lower frequencies to the Subwoofer so that the Subwoofer can pull double duty and handle both LFE and lower bass frequencies that the mains/center/surrounds can't handle efficiently.

Example:

I set my mains to be crossed over at 80 hertz

LFE set at 80 hertz

Result: I Have effectively cut out the LFE range between 80 hertz and 120 hertz! [:o] WHY WOULD I DO THAT?!!

So many people (including myself at one time) thought that 80 hertz was the perfect setting for both the crossover set point AND the LFE setpoint, until I realized that I was cutting out LFE information unknowingly. Most Subwoofers can handle up to 120 hertz, and with Audyssey equalization to help flatten out the frequency response even subwoofers that can get a little sporadic when played up to 120 hertz can get a greatly flattened response.

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Result: I Have effectively cut out the LFE range between 80 hertz and 120 hertz! Surprise WHY WOULD I DO THAT?!!

So many people (including myself at one time) thought that 80 hertz was the perfect setting for both the crossover set AND the LFE setpoint,

Superedge88,

Thanks for the advice. I never looked at it that way. I will try it out and listen for the difference.

Bill

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A feature of my HT Processor (Anthem AVM20) allows me to set different crossover settings for the different speaker "groups" (mains, center, surrounds, rears all being separate groups), so I can tailor what I send to them to take advantage of their different frequency responses... I have tried the THX standard of cutting off everything under 80 Hz, but find that it sounds a bit thin to me.

One of the marvelous attributes of Big Klipsch speakers is their BIG sound and ability to play fairly flat really low.

As always, YMMV...

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If your front mains are set to large wouldn't the signal between 120 and 80hz be sent to them?

For the following explanation LFE or .1 mean the same thing

oldtimer- This is a very common misconception. In regards to any sound processing that has a .1 (such as 5.1, 6.1, 7.1 etc) the LFE/.1 is a dedicated channel independant of the others. The only customizing available is a one way street --->

Bass information can be pushed to the subwoofer

The LFE information or .1 information can not be pushed to the main speakers

In regards to home theater bass is not simply bass. There is bass that is directed to the right/center/left/surrounds that you as the user have the option to redirect to the subwoofer. Then there is a dedicated bass channel which is the LFE/.1 which can not be redirected to any other speakers, so if you have your LFE channel set to only reproduce LFE/.1 information below 80 hertz you are simply cutting out a chunk of sound between 80 hertz and 120 that no other speakers will "pick up".

So a simple and very generalized setting list for the vaguely "average" user would be

Mains --> set to small and crossed over at 80 hertz

LFE ---> crossed over at 120 hertz

This will effectively use the subwoofer in a dual duty manner, the subwoofer will be playing both the LFE/.1 channel information AND all bass information below 80 hertz that is too low for your main speakers to handle or receiver amplifier is able to reproduce effectively/safely.

The crossover setting on the main speakers is optional, while the LFE/.1 crossover setting should always remain at 120 hertz.

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Keep in mind also that there is a difference between a receiver and a seperate pre/pro. Sub manufacturers recommend bypassing the crossover in the pre/pro and using only the crossover in the sub. Cables should run from the pre/pro to the sub, then to the main amp. Crossover setting will depend on the speakers being used and the amount of bass they are capable of reproducing.

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Thanks for bringing this up. My Onkyo has both a sub and LFE output. So I'll have to pick up another sub to try the LFE/SUB pre out at the same time. At the moment using bose 901 as mains so they can use the help till I find a deal on some horns. Back to the owners manual. ;)

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Just wanted to point out-

LFE- the dedicated subwoofer channel on your receiver is usually frequencies below 120 hertz (according to dolby and DTS) So you should not be setting your LFE for anything lower than 120 hertz or you are actually cutting out LFE information! Surprise LFE information is NOT reproduced by having your mains covering things down to 80 hertz, since in any format that has a .1 (dedicated LFE signal) there is no option to send any LFE information to the mains, only the option to send lower frequencies to the Subwoofer so that the Subwoofer can pull double duty and handle both LFE and lower bass frequencies that the mains/center/surrounds can't handle efficiently.

Oops...Here are the exact words to one of my AV Processors (Outlaw Audio):

"When the front speakers are set to SMALL it is automatically set to YES and no further adjustment is required. However, when the front speakers are set to LARGE, this setting lets you determine where the LFE and derived bass is directed.

Select LFE to send the special Low Frequency Effects channel information on multichannel digital sources to the subwoofer while a full range front channel signal will be sent to the front Left/Right speakers along with the derived bass signal from the other speaker positions.

Selecting L/R+Sub tells your processor that you want bass signals sent to your main L and R speakers in addition to your subwoofer. Choose this option only if your main L and R speakers have good bass handling capability. It may be the best selection for medium-sized front speakers.

Select NONE to send all bass information, including both LFE and derived bass to the front left/right speakers."

Here is another source:

"To maintain full compatibility with existing theatres, the Dolby Digital film format includes a separate LFE channel. When movies formatted for the consumer use Dolby Digital, the same tracks as originally produced are usually used, including the LFE track if available. Consumer Dolby Digital products that reproduce multichannel sound must combine the LFE channel in the proper acoustic mixing ratio with the bass from the other channels for proper reproduction."

Chris [;)]

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